Swift 100R gets ASTM Approval

[decalogue]

And more knowledgeable than he is.

I just read the studies and can do basic math and have common sense.

It doesn’t take much to see the 100LL bans as nonsense

 

[Cap'n Jack]

This statement lacks scientific basis

Since when have you understood science?

Multiple Chinese factories produce tetraethyllead, and this Paul guy is just talking simple color he noted from a distance.

Not true. There are several places that list it as a product that they can supply, but few that actually manufacture it. For many compounds, the Chinese suply chain is rather opaque from outside that country. An example I'm more familiar with is silica. Many places list it as a product, but the specifications are remarkably the same! A company called Santai manufactures the majority of the flash chromatography columns sold there and much of the rest of the world, but many companies list themselves as suppliers for these columns. They simply take the order and pass it on to Santai.

Paul, as noted elsewhere, works in the industry. A chemical compound should have a specific color, which includes no color. If the color is wrong, it either isn't the compound listed on the label or it is contaminated. It seems you would trust your expensive engine to something that either isn't TEL, or contains less TEL than specified, causing engine knock that you were hoping to avoid.. If he indeed noted "... simple color from a distance", there would be more visible contamination than seen at arms-length.

For better or worse China is a global leader in manufacturing all sorts of stuff, EV batteries to iPhone to aviation parts, and misc chemicals.

Yes, they are a global manufacturer and they make many fine things of good quality. But they are people, and just like anyplace else, they can produce both good products or bad products.

Im a American, my values are not compatible with Australia

But your values are compatible with those of China, a rather regressive government? I shared a picture of Winnie-the-Pooh in a vending machine in Shanghai and it got deleted by the censors monitoring private messages in WeChat!

for the rest of us that are interested, here's an article about TEL published by the American Chemical Society.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/om030621b?ref=article_openPDF

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Marinas are where boats get to land
..I’d think someone called Cap’n would know this

Thus a marina is accessible by road

I have a cheap tank off Craigslist in my truck I fill up and then put in my hangar, it’s pretty easy.

Other folks have those bed mounted fuel tanks in their trucks with a nozzle attached, also pretty easy.

In fact it’s LESS work not having to taxi over and fuel up at the fuel farm, especially if you have a few weekend warriors taking a eternity at the pumps, or someone who fuels up and then goes into the airport building to use the bathroom or something while their plane is blocking the pumps.

Very quick Craigslist search
275gal, 25 bucks each
View attachment 150300

https://greenbay.craigslist.org/grd/d/275-gallon-ibc-tote-tank-25-piece/7909664634.html

127gal Transfer tank complete with hose and nozzle

View attachment 150301

https://greenbay.craigslist.org/for/d/greenleaf-diesel-transfer-tank/7917625252.html

<s>That works so well if I'm flying away from the local airport.</s> I land a few hundred miles away to refuel and now what? No one there won't have that infrastructure.

What about here in Nebraska? No marinas inland!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I just read the studies and can do basic math and have common sense.

It doesn’t take much to see the 100LL bans as nonsense

All of those claims are doubtful.

 

[decalogue]

Since when have you understood science?

Not true. There are several places that list it as a product that they can supply, but few that actually manufacture it. For many compounds, the Chinese suply chain is rather opaque from outside that country. An example I'm more familiar with is silica. Many places list it as a product, but the specifications are remarkably the same! A company called Santai manufactures the majority of the flash chromatography columns sold there and much of the rest of the world, but many companies list themselves as suppliers for these columns.

Paul, as noted elsewhere, works in the industry. A chemical compound should have a specific color, which includes no color. If the color is wrong, it either isn't the compound listed on the label or it is contaminated. It seems you would trust your expensive engine to something that either isn't TEL, or contains less TEL than specified, causing engine knock that you were hoping to avoid.. If he indeed noted "... simple color from a distance", there would be more visible contamination than seen at arms-length.

Yes, they are a global manufacturer and they make many fine things of good quality. But they are people, and just like anyplace else, they can produce both good products or bad products.


But your values are compatible with those of China, a rather regressive government? I shared a picture of Winnie-the-Pooh in a vending machine in Shanghai and it got deleted by the censors monitoring private messages in WeChat!

for the rest of us that are interested, here's an article about TEL published by the American Chemical Society.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/om030621b?ref=article_openPDF

I’d say since primary school, it’s not that hard


So you think china is not able to make the same level of TEL that some UK factory makes?
We are not talking cold fusion here

My values and buying one more product from china work out just fine for me, I don’t have move to china renounce my American citizenship just to buy a product made there, come on

<s>That works so well if I'm flying away from the local airport.</s> I land a few hundred miles away to refuel and now what? No one there won't have that infrastructure.

What about here in Nebraska? No marinas inland!

Tons of places to get mogas


Even a few marinas with fuel docks





Depending on your mission refueling at base isn’t a big factor, or at the very least it can take a good size chunk out of your fuel costs, which is why I have my fuel tank

 

[Bell206]

I fuel my own planes, for a few reasons.

Do you also perform all the maintenance on your aircraft? Regardless, since you won't spend your time and money on this campaign, why should anyone else?

As to marina gasoline, there are a number who will not fill containers, only boats. No different than there are some aircraft services that will not fill containers and only airplanes.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

So you think china is not able to make the same level of TEL that some UK factory makes?
We are not talking cold fusion here

This proves that you don't read very well. Here is what I actually wrote:

Yes, they are a global manufacturer and they make many fine things of good quality. But they are people, and just like anyplace else, they can produce both good products or bad products.

I never said they weren't able to make TEL, or anything else. I merely stated that what the quality of what they manufacture depends on the particular producer, as is true anywhere else in the world.

Depending on your mission refueling at base isn’t a big factor, or at the very least it can take a good size chunk out of your fuel costs, which is why I have my fuel tank

When I fly away from Lincoln, those stations aren't available. Gordon Municipal, for example, isn't near any sort of infrastructure. There are no marinas inland. Few people are going to land at an airport, rent a car, and schlepp 40 gallons of gas to fill their plane. <s>No ladder at the FBO, It's so easy to climb and balance on the wing strut step of a C-172 while pouring gas from a 5 gallon can</s> Your ideas work only for a few people at best.

 

[decalogue]

Do you also perform all the maintenance on your aircraft? Regardless, since you won't spend your time and money on this campaign, why should anyone else?

As to marina gasoline, there are a number who will not fill containers, only boats. No different than there are some aircraft services that will not fill containers and only airplanes.

I do a good deal of it, my mechanic is a friend of mine and just like me snitching is against his religion, he also things the crazy 100ll ban attempt is stupid


I am spending my time right now lol
I already mentioned I have reached out to my elected officials and my aviation community.

If someone is mounting or organizing a legal fight to stop this nonsense I would 100% donate to that cause.

There are some that won’t fill, sample size of me and my friends, but I haven’t really ran into this issue enough to even remember the last time it was a issue, normally doing self serve may also help there

 

[decalogue]

This proves that you don't read very well. Here is what I actually wrote:

I never said they weren't able to make TEL, or anything else. I merely stated that what the quality of what they manufacture depends on the particular producer, as is true anywhere else in the world.



When I fly away from Lincoln, those stations aren't available. Gordon Municipal, for example, isn't near any sort of infrastructure. There are no marinas inland. Few people are going to land at an airport, rent a car, and schlepp 40 gallons of gas to fill their plane. <s>No ladder at the FBO, It's so easy to climb and balance on the wing strut step of a C-172 while pouring gas from a 5 gallon can</s> Your ideas work only for a few people at best.

Odd reading comment


So obviously then if there was a market for aviation quality TEL one of the numerous China factories could fill that role


As I clearly wrote, being able to top tanks at home for less $$ helps even if you have to get FBO gas for the return leg

I have a tank well over 100G, I have a pump and nozzle, it’s pretty easy to fill the plane at my hangar.

I have also fueled from 5G buckets in the field, but for different reasons, it’s really not hard, but again, clearly not what I was talking about

 

[737steve]

As I said earlier, I don't need an STC as I'm experimental, but ethanol free mogas is not allowed to be sold in my state, nor is it available at any airport I know of within hundreds of miles.



I didn't say that either. But it's no different from you saying, "I have a 4 seater that needs 100LL, F' those with low compression engines that are damaged by excessive lead?"

When (not if) 100LL becomes unavailable in the US, it will become available in Mexico too, as their market is too small to support it. But that whole line of thought is silly, as you'd still have to use UL any time you filled up away from home.

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but perhaps it will be of help. It can be a nuisance to find pure gasoline, but it's available in more places that is generally known. It's a rare event to have E-10 in any of our vehicles.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

Just think of it as stickin' it to the man!

 

[Bell206]

I do a good deal of it, my mechanic is a friend of mine and just like me snitching is against his religion, he also things the crazy 100ll ban attempt is stupid

So, if after the final date in 2032, and they make 100LL an airworthiness issue, will your friend mechanic be willing to falsify his record entries to cover for you?

 

[decalogue]

So, if after the final date in 2032, and they make 100LL an airworthiness issue, will your friend mechanic be willing to falsify his record entries to cover for you?

Where did you get the FAA will make 100ll a airworthy issue?

So they’d change a TON of TCDSs?

I’d wager not

That’s kinda a silly what if

There are other fuels which are nearly unavailable that planes can still legally run.

I would say if the government went so far as to change all the TCDSs to assail 100LL to that level, for one it would prove they were trying to ban GA more than some trace amount of lead, two it would call into question the validity of that government entity entirely and majorly devalue their meaning of “airworthy”

 

[Racerx]

Marinas are where boats get to land
..I’d think someone called Cap’n would know this

Thus a marina is accessible by road

I have a cheap tank off Craigslist in my truck I fill up and then put in my hangar, it’s pretty easy.

Other folks have those bed mounted fuel tanks in their trucks with a nozzle attached, also pretty easy.

In fact it’s LESS work not having to taxi over and fuel up at the fuel farm, especially if you have a few weekend warriors taking a eternity at the pumps, or someone who fuels up and then goes into the airport building to use the bathroom or something while their plane is blocking the pumps.

Very quick Craigslist search
275gal, 25 bucks each
View attachment 150300

https://greenbay.craigslist.org/grd/d/275-gallon-ibc-tote-tank-25-piece/7909664634.html

127gal Transfer tank complete with hose and nozzle

View attachment 150301

https://greenbay.craigslist.org/for/d/greenleaf-diesel-transfer-tank/7917625252.html

Ignoring the DOT issues transporting fuel in those containers... Long term storage in ibc totes has issues with vapor pressure and static/spark.

This **** is some next level trolling.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

So obviously then if there was a market for aviation quality TEL one of the numerous China factories could fill that role

There aren't numerous factories for TEL in China, as stated earlier.

Not true. There are several places that list it as a product that they can supply, but few that actually manufacture it. For many compounds, the Chinese supply chain is rather opaque from outside that country. An example I'm more familiar with is silica. Many places list it as a product, but the specifications are remarkably the same! A company called Santai manufactures the majority of the flash chromatography columns sold there and much of the rest of the world, but many companies list themselves as suppliers for these columns. They simply take the order and pass it on to Santai.

One company in the UK supplied TEL for the world. Why would there be a enough of a market allowing for several companies to produce TEL in China, when the rest of the world, including Australia (cited earlier in the thread) are moving away from the stuff?

As I clearly wrote, being able to top tanks at home for less $$ helps even if you have to get FBO gas for the return leg

I have a tank well over 100G, I have a pump and nozzle, it’s pretty easy to fill the plane at my hangar.

Yes, you wrote it. It also doesn't apply to me in any way as I rent planes so it doesn't matter to me. Even so, for me, I make several fuel stops on a trip away from the home base. The savings would be greatly reduced. My experience counts as much as yours.

However, with that volume of gasoline, well over 100 gallons (450 liters), is that in the back of your truck? You need to label it properly and need a commercial driver's license:

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/interp/10-0127#:~:text=A1.,171.8%20for%20bulk%20packaging%20definition).

State laws may be more restrictive:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/employee-health-safety/repository/TransportingGas.pdf

If this tank is in your hangar, are you allowed this much at your airport? Some airports allow up to 5 gallons stored outside your vehicle. This is one example:

Fire Safety Requirements for Aircraft Storage | Grosse Ile Municipal Airport

Ensure fire safety compliance for aircraft storage in hangars at Grosse Ile Municipal Airport. Learn about IBC 2000, IFC 2000, and NFPA Codes. Contact us for non-aircraft item storage permission. Follow regulations for vehicle and boat storage. Regular inspections by Grosse Ile Fire Department.

www.grosseileairport.com

I recognize that rules may be different elsewhere.

I have also fueled from 5G buckets in the field, but for different reasons, it’s really not hard, but again, clearly not what I was talking about

Either using a ladder, or fueling a low-wing plane, it's not hard. But that wasn't the situation I described.

 

[decalogue]

Ignoring the DOT issues transporting fuel in those containers... Long term storage in ibc totes has issues with vapor pressure and static/spark.

This **** is some next level trolling.

So you can’t transport fuel in a fuel transfer tank?

Interesting

There aren't numerous factories for TEL in China, as stated earlier.

One company in the UK supplied TEL for the world. Why would there be a enough of a market allowing for several companies to produce TEL in China, when the rest of the world, including Australia (cited earlier in the thread) are moving away from the stuff?



Yes, you wrote it. It also doesn't apply to me in any way as I rent planes so it doesn't matter to me. Even so, for me, I make several fuel stops on a trip away from the home base. The savings would be greatly reduced. My experience counts as much as yours.

However, with that volume of gasoline, well over 100 gallons (450 liters), is that in the back of your truck? You need to label it properly and need a commercial driver's license:

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/interp/10-0127#:~:text=A1.,171.8%20for%20bulk%20packaging%20definition).

State laws may be more restrictive:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/employee-health-safety/repository/TransportingGas.pdf

If this tank is in your hangar, are you allowed this much at your airport? Some airports allow up to 5 gallons stored outside your vehicle. This is one example:

Fire Safety Requirements for Aircraft Storage | Grosse Ile Municipal Airport

Ensure fire safety compliance for aircraft storage in hangars at Grosse Ile Municipal Airport. Learn about IBC 2000, IFC 2000, and NFPA Codes. Contact us for non-aircraft item storage permission. Follow regulations for vehicle and boat storage. Regular inspections by Grosse Ile Fire Department.

www.grosseileairport.com

I recognize that rules may be different elsewhere.


Either using a ladder, or fueling a low-wing plane, it's not hard. But that wasn't the situation I described.

I posted the names and locations of them..


If there is a demand I’m sure some factory in China would love the business


If you’re a renter it’s a very different situation, especially if you’re renting wet

It’s also different if you’re a renter because you don’t really have as much skin in the game when it comes to paying for fuel mods, or damages from the new wannabe 100LL replacements

Since I own my hangar and the land it’s on, I was able to get permission from myself to store my fuel there too

 

[Racerx]

So you can’t transport fuel in a fuel transfer tank?

Interesting

No actually. You can not transport gasoline in a diesel transfer tank.

And those IBC totes arent dot approved for gasoline either and should not be used for long term storage.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I posted the names and locations of them..


If there is a demand I’m sure some factory in China would love the business

I saw that list. Those are resellers and not manufacturers.

If you’re a renter it’s a very different situation, especially if you’re renting wet

It’s also different if you’re a renter because you don’t really have as much skin in the game when it comes to paying for fuel mods, or damages from the new wannabe 100LL replacements

It's also my reality. Any modifications are paid for by renters- if there were an increase in cost it gets passed along like any other business would do. I doubt there will be any damages.

Since I own my hangar and the land it’s on, I was able to get permission from myself to store my fuel there too

I wonder if your little fuel tank farm would be fine with your local fire marshal? You also have a rare use-case that is impractical for people, most of us, that hangar planes at an airport. You didn't answer the question about the size of the tank you use to transport the gasoline to your hangar.

 

[decalogue]

I saw that list. Those are resellers and not manufacturers.


It's also my reality. Any modifications are paid for by renters- if there were an increase in cost it gets passed along like any other business would do. I doubt there will be any damages.



I wonder if your little fuel tank farm would be fine with your local fire marshal? You also have a rare use-case that is impractical for people, most of us, that hangar planes at an airport. You didn't answer the question about the size of the tank you use to transport the gasoline to your hangar.

TDS can make TEL

About | octane booster - TDSCHEM

Nanchang Haixu currently makes and exports TEL

Tetraethyl lead

tetraethyllead 四乙基铅 antiexplosive tetraethyl lead octane rating тетраэтилсвинец Manufacture of tetraethyl lead Supply Tetraethyl lead automotive aviation grade ethyl liquid Anti-blast agent Increase octane number Lead agent Manganese grade Iron agent MMT Ferrocene

www.teraethyllead.com

Beijing Hua Di Union seems to be tooling up to make it

Knock Manufacturer Supplier - Beijing Hua Di Union Investment Co.,Ltd.

ZX makes TEL

Tetraethyl Lead (TEL-B) Supplier in China | ZXCHEM

Tetraethyl Lead (TEL-B) (CAS 78-00-2) is supplied as blue transparent liquid with TEL ≥61.48% (TEL-B blend). Bulk supply from ZXCHEM China.

www.zxchem.com

Seems to be a few others as well

Tetraethyl Lead Manufacturer: Reliable Suppliers for Fuel Additives

Need tetraethyl lead for gasoline additives? Discover verified manufacturers offering engine performance solutions. Reduce knocking and enhance combustion efficiency. Click to connect with suppliers now!

www.accio.com

So can we let the “only one place makes TEL” nonsense die now?

I think the reason that rumor got started was to give people a sense of futility, like a what difference does it make anyways type of deal.

Add to that the non noticeable health issues and findings that even lead levels around some airports were even lower than in some towns.

Colorado lead studies failed to detect measurable aviation pollution

Legislation introduced in Colorado seeks to cripple general aviation, notwithstanding the lack of evidence (despite numerous recent attempts to find it) that airplanes are contaminating local communities.

www.aopa.org

The only reason to ban it is for the sake of banning it..


Result, no notable difference in pollution or health, increase in fuel costs, possibly grounding lots of the GA fleet, damaging other parts of the fleet.





Per the tanks
I honestly don’t care, it’s safe enough for me and I don’t tolerate trespassers, lots of other folks out here have similar setups, we are out in the country and I’m not even sure we have a fire marshal, our FD is all vollie and doubt any of them want to make waves for $0 in our small town

 

[2-Bit Speed]

TDS can make TEL

About | octane booster - TDSCHEM

Nanchang Haixu currently makes and exports TEL

Tetraethyl lead

tetraethyllead 四乙基铅 antiexplosive tetraethyl lead octane rating тетраэтилсвинец Manufacture of tetraethyl lead Supply Tetraethyl lead automotive aviation grade ethyl liquid Anti-blast agent Increase octane number Lead agent Manganese grade Iron agent MMT Ferrocene

www.teraethyllead.com

Beijing Hua Di Union seems to be tooling up to make it

Knock Manufacturer Supplier - Beijing Hua Di Union Investment Co.,Ltd.

ZX makes TEL

Tetraethyl Lead (TEL-B) Supplier in China | ZXCHEM

Tetraethyl Lead (TEL-B) (CAS 78-00-2) is supplied as blue transparent liquid with TEL ≥61.48% (TEL-B blend). Bulk supply from ZXCHEM China.

www.zxchem.com

Seems to be a few others as well

Tetraethyl Lead Manufacturer: Reliable Suppliers for Fuel Additives

Need tetraethyl lead for gasoline additives? Discover verified manufacturers offering engine performance solutions. Reduce knocking and enhance combustion efficiency. Click to connect with suppliers now!

www.accio.com

So can we let the “only one place makes TEL” nonsense die now?




Per the tanks
I honestly don’t care, it’s safe enough for me and I don’t tolerate trespassers, lots of other folks out here have similar setups, we are out in the country and I’m not even sure we have a fire marshal, our FD is all vollie and doubt any of them want to make waves for $0 in our small town

Tell ya what, you order some and ship it to blackstone. If they call it, "Why TF did this guy ship this to us," I'll go along with your story.

 

[decalogue]

Tell ya what, you order some and ship it to blackstone. If they call it, "Why TF did this guy ship this to us," I'll go along with your story.

My story?

I posted links to the manufactures own pages.

But here ya go

Countries That Still Use Leaded Gasoline

The act of mixing lead with gasoline began in the 1920s and continued until it was phased out beginning in the 1980s and 1990s in most places.

www.worldatlas.com

“Algeria has been importing tetraethyl lead from China, but some percentage may be coming from Innospec Limited”

So yes china exports it and it’s running in engines

It’s funny the same folks who say china is beating us just can’t fathom that china can figure out how to make simple TEL

 

[Cap'n Jack]

So can we let the “only one place makes TEL” nonsense die now?

Nope, because your links are outdated or incorrect. This one, for example is one of the suppliers- they don't make it and judging from their images, they don't even know what it is supposed to look like. TEL is a clear liquid, not a solid.



This one just exports mostly to countries with sanctions and BRICS members. They export, not produce. I love their announcement.


This one is an old link. It lists an investment that hasn't happened.

Per the tanks
I honestly don’t care, it’s safe enough for me and I don’t tolerate trespassers, lots of other folks out here have similar setups, we are out in the country and I’m not even sure we have a fire marshal, our FD is all vollie and doubt any of them want to make waves for $0 in our small town

Again, how do you transport the stuff? The "lots of other folks"- why would they store significant volumes of gasoline? Farmers in Nebraska just buy the stuff as needed from their local gas station.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

My story?

I posted links to the manufactures own pages.

No, you just linked to resellers.

 

[Bell206]

Where did you get the FAA will make 100ll a airworthy issue? So they’d change a TON of TCDSs?

Why would they do that considering 100LL will still be used and sold outside the US? And since the sale and use of leaded gasolines is already illegal in most cases within the US, why wouldn't they include 100LL in that same group? And to control that it would only take a simple rule change or similar effort. For example, Part 91.xxx, No person may operate an aircraft within the NAS serviced with 100LL.

 

[decalogue]

Why would they do that considering 100LL will still be used and sold outside the US? And since the sale and use of leaded gasolines is already illegal in most cases within the US, why wouldn't they include 100LL in that same group? And to control that it would only take a simple rule change or similar effort. For example, Part 91.xxx, No person may operate an aircraft within the NAS serviced with 100LL.

If the government modifies aircraft TCDS for political reasons, reclassifying fully airworthy 100LL fuel as unairworthy to support bans, it would severely erode my trust in their future actions.

Nope, because your links are outdated or incorrect. This one, for example is one of the suppliers- they don't make it and judging from their images, they don't even know what it is supposed to look like. TEL is a clear liquid, not a solid.

View attachment 150308

This one just exports mostly to countries with sanctions and BRICS members. They export, not produce. I love their announcement.
View attachment 150309

This one is an old link. It lists an investment that hasn't happened.
View attachment 150310


Again, how do you transport the stuff? The "lots of other folks"- why would they store significant volumes of gasoline? Framers in Nebraska just buy the stuff as needed from their local gas station.

Outdated? You want them to take a daily photo of the news paper and post it like some proof of life or something lol



From a few posts up, off worldatlas
“Algeria has been importing tetraethyl lead from China, but some percentage may be coming from Innospec Limited”


How do I transport my property, uhh none of your business?



Why do I have the fuel, because there is no fuel on field and I also prefer to pay less when I can

 

[2-Bit Speed]

My story?

I posted links to the manufactures own pages.

But here ya go

Countries That Still Use Leaded Gasoline

The act of mixing lead with gasoline began in the 1920s and continued until it was phased out beginning in the 1980s and 1990s in most places.

www.worldatlas.com

“Algeria has been importing tetraethyl lead from China, but some percentage may be coming from Innospec Limited”

So yes china exports it and it’s running in engines

It’s funny the same folks who say china is beating us just can’t fathom that china can figure out how to make simple TEL

Look buddy, I can make a pretty website too. Doesn't prove anything.

And good for Algeria. Probably wouldn't recommend re-fueling your plane in that county.

 

[Dana]

Mogas is sold in both CT & NY, most any marina fuel dock has it, think I even posted a link for you once

I already told you, they don't sell non-ethanol gas.

On the bottom
True Value Power Equip
228 Rt 81, Killingworth, CT 860-663-2531
ethanol-free VP RACING 94

My local hardware store, yes, they do sell it... in cans for small engines, at over $25/gallon!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

If the government modifies aircraft TCDS for political reasons, reclassifying fully airworthy 100LL fuel as unairworthy to support bans, it would severely erode my trust in their future actions.



Outdated? You want them to take a daily photo of the news paper and post it like some proof of life or something lol

View attachment 150312

From a few posts up, off worldatlas
“Algeria has been importing tetraethyl lead from China, but some percentage may be coming from Innospec Limited”

Again, they don't produce it.

Let's see what the Chinese have to say about this...

四乙基铅（Tetraethyl lead, TEL）是一种曾广泛用作汽油抗爆剂的有机铅化合物。由于其剧毒性和对环境的严重危害，全球绝大多数国家已全面禁止在车用汽油中添加四乙基铅。中国也已于2000年全面停止使用含铅汽油，因此‌四乙基铅在中国已无合法的工业化生产‌。

尽管如此，公开资料中仍可查到一些与四乙基铅相关的公司信息，但这些公司主要涉及以下几种情况：

• ‌历史或非主流生产‌：部分公司可能在禁用前曾从事相关生产，或目前仅从事小规模、特定用途（如出口、科研）的业务。
• ‌产品销售与贸易‌：许多公司是化学品贸易商，而非直接制造商。
• ‌设备与服务‌：部分公司提供四乙基铅的储存设备或质控样品，而非生产该化合物本身。

根据现有公开信息，以下是中国与四乙基铅相关的公司情况：

与四乙基铅相关的中国公司​

• ‌菏泽四乙基铅生产有限公司‌
  该公司位于山东菏泽，其公司名称直接包含“四乙基铅生产”，是目前公开资料中唯一以“生产”为名的公司。但其信息来源于B2B平台，权威性一般，且无官方生产许可或环保部门公示信息佐证其当前是否仍在运营。‌1
• ‌鹤岗万达化工有限公司‌
  该公司成立于2005年，经营范围明确包含“四乙基铅（发动机燃料抗爆混合物）”。其安全生产许可证已于2019年到期，且2024年因欠缴环保税等被税务部门公告。这表明该公司可能已停止生产或处于非正常经营状态。‌4
• ‌南昌海旭实业有限公司‌
  该公司曾宣称是四乙基铅的“厂家”，产品全部用于出口，年产量约1500吨。但其公开信息最后更新于2016年，且其经营范围中未明确包含危险化学品生产，仅包含“自营和代理进出口”。其是否为实际生产商存疑，更可能是贸易商。‌6
• ‌鞍山鸿丰石油化工科技有限公司‌
  该公司成立于2025年，经营范围包括“专用化学产品制造（不含危险化学品）”和“燃油添加剂（乙基液）”。其宣传中提及“乙基液”作为燃油抗爆剂，但明确标注“不含危险化学品”，且其注册经营范围不包含四乙基铅。因此，该公司‌不生产四乙基铅‌，其“乙基液”可能指其他非铅类抗爆剂。‌5

质控样品供应商（非制造商）​

多家公司提供四乙基铅的‌质控样品‌或‌标准溶液‌，用于实验室检测和校准，这些是‌科研试剂‌，并非工业产品：

• ‌广州测研科技有限公司‌：提供四乙基铅质控样（货号CQC-064）。‌3
• ‌北京萘析生化科技有限公司‌：提供四乙基铅甲醇标准溶液（1000μg/mL）和水质质控样品。‌89

总结​

目前，‌中国没有公开的、合法的、大规模的四乙基铅工业制造商‌。历史上曾有企业生产，但随着含铅汽油的淘汰，相关生产已基本停止。现有信息中提及的公司，要么是贸易商，要么是设备供应商，要么是提供科研试剂的公司，均不构成传统意义上的“制造商”。

如需获取四乙基铅用于科研目的，可联系专业的化学试剂供应商购买标准溶液。‌38

The first paragraph indicates there is no legal production of TEL in China:
Tetraethyl lead (TEL) is an organolead compound that was once widely used as an antiknock agent in gasoline. Due to its extreme toxicity and severe environmental damage, the vast majority of countries worldwide have completely banned the addition of tetraethyl lead to automotive gasoline. China also completely stopped using leaded gasoline in 2000, therefore, there is no longer any legal industrial production of tetraethyl lead in China.

Emphasis mine.

Here's a screenshot to show I'm not making this stuff up. You can copy and paste the text above for a translation. I don't trust any Western search tool to give me data about companies in China. Western search engines just can't search and index it as they really don't do business there. when I need to look up information about a customer there, I use Baidu.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

How do I transport my property, uhh none of your business?



Why do I have the fuel, because there is no fuel on field and I also prefer to pay less when I can

I'll just assume that you are transporting much more than 100 gallons as you said, but whihout the required placarding and license

I didn't ask why you had the fuel.

Again, how do you transport the stuff? The "lots of other folks"- why would they store significant volumes of gasoline? Farmers in Nebraska just buy the stuff as needed from their local gas station.

I asked why everyone else stored the fuel.

 

[Bell206]

If the government modifies aircraft TCDS for political reasons,

Why would the FAA have to do that? There's no need to do that as they can make a simple rule like I noted above. Honestly have no clue why you even bring up a TCDS change.

 

[decalogue]

Look buddy, I can make a pretty website too. Doesn't prove anything.

And good for Algeria. Probably wouldn't recommend re-fueling your plane in that county.

So it’s all like a conspiracy or something?

It’s that hard for you to believe china makes TEL in one of their gazillion factories? …ok

Again, they don't produce it.

Let's see what the Chinese have to say about this...

四乙基铅（Tetraethyl lead, TEL）是一种曾广泛用作汽油抗爆剂的有机铅化合物。由于其剧毒性和对环境的严重危害，全球绝大多数国家已全面禁止在车用汽油中添加四乙基铅。中国也已于2000年全面停止使用含铅汽油，因此‌四乙基铅在中国已无合法的工业化生产‌。

尽管如此，公开资料中仍可查到一些与四乙基铅相关的公司信息，但这些公司主要涉及以下几种情况：

• ‌历史或非主流生产‌：部分公司可能在禁用前曾从事相关生产，或目前仅从事小规模、特定用途（如出口、科研）的业务。
• ‌产品销售与贸易‌：许多公司是化学品贸易商，而非直接制造商。
• ‌设备与服务‌：部分公司提供四乙基铅的储存设备或质控样品，而非生产该化合物本身。

根据现有公开信息，以下是中国与四乙基铅相关的公司情况：

与四乙基铅相关的中国公司​

• ‌菏泽四乙基铅生产有限公司‌
  该公司位于山东菏泽，其公司名称直接包含“四乙基铅生产”，是目前公开资料中唯一以“生产”为名的公司。但其信息来源于B2B平台，权威性一般，且无官方生产许可或环保部门公示信息佐证其当前是否仍在运营。‌1
• ‌鹤岗万达化工有限公司‌
  该公司成立于2005年，经营范围明确包含“四乙基铅（发动机燃料抗爆混合物）”。其安全生产许可证已于2019年到期，且2024年因欠缴环保税等被税务部门公告。这表明该公司可能已停止生产或处于非正常经营状态。‌4
• ‌南昌海旭实业有限公司‌
  该公司曾宣称是四乙基铅的“厂家”，产品全部用于出口，年产量约1500吨。但其公开信息最后更新于2016年，且其经营范围中未明确包含危险化学品生产，仅包含“自营和代理进出口”。其是否为实际生产商存疑，更可能是贸易商。‌6
• ‌鞍山鸿丰石油化工科技有限公司‌
  该公司成立于2025年，经营范围包括“专用化学产品制造（不含危险化学品）”和“燃油添加剂（乙基液）”。其宣传中提及“乙基液”作为燃油抗爆剂，但明确标注“不含危险化学品”，且其注册经营范围不包含四乙基铅。因此，该公司‌不生产四乙基铅‌，其“乙基液”可能指其他非铅类抗爆剂。‌5

质控样品供应商（非制造商）​

多家公司提供四乙基铅的‌质控样品‌或‌标准溶液‌，用于实验室检测和校准，这些是‌科研试剂‌，并非工业产品：

• ‌广州测研科技有限公司‌：提供四乙基铅质控样（货号CQC-064）。‌3
• ‌北京萘析生化科技有限公司‌：提供四乙基铅甲醇标准溶液（1000μg/mL）和水质质控样品。‌89

总结​

目前，‌中国没有公开的、合法的、大规模的四乙基铅工业制造商‌。历史上曾有企业生产，但随着含铅汽油的淘汰，相关生产已基本停止。现有信息中提及的公司，要么是贸易商，要么是设备供应商，要么是提供科研试剂的公司，均不构成传统意义上的“制造商”。

如需获取四乙基铅用于科研目的，可联系专业的化学试剂供应商购买标准溶液。‌38

The first paragraph indicates there is no legal production of TEL in China:
Tetraethyl lead (TEL) is an organolead compound that was once widely used as an antiknock agent in gasoline. Due to its extreme toxicity and severe environmental damage, the vast majority of countries worldwide have completely banned the addition of tetraethyl lead to automotive gasoline. China also completely stopped using leaded gasoline in 2000, therefore, there is no longer any legal industrial production of tetraethyl lead in China.

Emphasis mine.

Here's a screenshot to show I'm not making this stuff up. You can copy and paste the text above for a translation. I don't trust any Western search tool to give me data about companies in China. Western search engines just can't search and index it as they really don't do business there. when I need to look up information about a customer there, I use Baidu.

View attachment 150322


View attachment 150320

Because China cares about legal issues lol

Also what website is that and why do I care about their opinion?

I posted much more credible sites saying the opposite

I'll just assume that you are transporting much more than 100 gallons as you said, but whihout the required placarding and license

I didn't ask why you had the fuel.

I asked why everyone else stored the fuel.

I gave the reason

 

[decalogue]

Why would the FAA have to do that? There's no need to do that as they can make a simple rule like I noted above. Honestly have no clue why you even bring up a TCDS change.

I wasn’t the one who initially brought it up

If FAA makes pointless rules not backed by facts less and less people are going to take them seriously

If asking about TCDS, yes, because that’s the only they could make such a rule.

 

[2-Bit Speed]

So it’s all like a conspiracy or something?

I don't know if I'd call one rando online lying a conspiracy, but if you want...

 

[decalogue]

I don't know if I'd call one rando online lying a conspiracy, but if you want...

Well you would be calling multiple manufactures website and world atlas lying, many health studies including the NIH, plus YouTube videos clearly showing the damage some of these 100LL would be replacements all lying.

I mean it might be true, but that’s nearing a global conspiracy.

Or it could be our goverment is yet again doing pointless stuff that will cost us yet more money and freedoms

I mean look at the whole ethanol debacle, somewhat similar

 

[Bell206]

If asking about TCDS, yes, because that’s the only they could make such a rule.

I brought up the "airworthiness issue, but you brought the TCDS change. However, you are incorrect that a TCDS change is the only way for the FAA to make such a rule. There are several non-TCDS methods to do that to include the example I gave above and specific only to US based aircraft.

 

[Hang 4]

Algeria banned leaded fuel in 2021, the last country in the world. Automotive leaded fuel is now banned everywhere.
Yes, a company in China did produce TEL for the third world before the total ban. What you are missing is that no oil major is going qualify that supplier for use in avgas.
100LL will go away, it's not whether, it's when. Supporting or not supporting that is irrelevant.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Also what website is that and why do I care about their opinion?

Look at the screenshot. You can see the web site, and I use them in my text. I explained why you should care about their search results. Please read my post again. It is the main search engine used in China.

I posted much more credible sites saying the opposite

Actually, you didn't. Not when they show images of TEL as a solid at room temperature . Hence my comment about you not knowing science. One look at those "product pictures" would tell you the site was a fraud.

I gave the reason

No, you gave a reason for you storing large quantities of gasoline. You didn't explain why your neighbors did when they don't need to....

Why do I have the fuel, because there is no fuel on field and I also prefer to pay less when I can

Because China cares about legal issues lol

Well, you certainly don't- keeping and transporting large quantities of gasoline without the proper signage or license (CDL):

Per the tanks
I honestly don’t care, it’s safe enough for me and I don’t tolerate trespassers, lots of other folks out here have similar setups, we are out in the country and I’m not even sure we have a fire marshal, our FD is all vollie and doubt any of them want to make waves for $0 in our small town

 

[decalogue]

Look at the screenshot. You can see the web site, and I use them in my text. I explained why you should care about their search results. Please read my post again. It is the main search engine used in China.

Actually, you didn't. Not when they show images of TEL as a solid at room temperature . Hence my comment about you not knowing science. One look at those "product pictures" would tell you the site was a fraud.

No, you gave a reason for you storing large quantities of gasoline. You didn't explain why your neighbors did when they don't need to....



Well, you certainly don't- keeping and transporting large quantities of gasoline without the proper signage or license (CDL):

The other locals on the field store fuel because there is no fuel on the field.

 

[AvNavCom]

With several hundred posts within the space of a few weeks, pretty much all of them argumentative, confrontational, judgmental, and dismissive, I fairly quickly pegged decalogue as a fast EHP candidate. This thread was sufficient to push into "ignore" territory and boy did it make the noise-to-signal ratio immediately improve. I recommend it. I try to give everyone a fair shake, but this has been the worst debut since the guy who tried to say that his text-to-speech was responsible for his posts progressively reading like Huck Finn wrote them.

I agree that the lead exposure from aviation to the general public is negligible bordering on unmeasurable, and I say that as a public-health trained physician who is board-certified in aerospace medicine. However, I also agree with everyone that 100LL is a done-deal and no amount of grandstanding will change that. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, and so forth. Presumptative lead poisoning from little airplanes is the attack vector for the NIMBYs who moved next to an airport and now want to shut it down. Once we all move to unleaded, at least they can be honest that it's the noise they don't like!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

With several hundred posts within the space of a few weeks, pretty much all of them argumentative, confrontational, judgmental, and dismissive, I fairly quickly pegged decalogue as a fast EHP candidate. This thread was sufficient to push into "ignore" territory and boy did it make the noise-to-signal ratio immediately improve. I recommend it. I try to give everyone a fair shake, but this has been the worst debut since the guy who tried to say that his text-to-speech was responsible for his posts progressively reading like Huck Finn wrote them.

I agree that the lead exposure from aviation to the general public is negligible bordering on unmeasurable, and I say that as a public-health trained physician who is board-certified in aerospace medicine. However, I also agree with everyone that 100LL is a done-deal and no amount of grandstanding will change that. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, and so forth. Presumptative lead poisoning from little airplanes is the attack vector for the NIMBYs who moved next to an airport and now want to shut it down. Once we all move to unleaded, at least they can be honest that it's the noise they don't like!

And remove one more excuse from the developers and real estate people who see a chance to buy the land and develop it or speculate that they can close an airport and sell houses at a higher price. I'll admit Venn diagrams of these groups overlap, perhaps considerably.

 

[decalogue]

How has compromise worked so far for GA?

I think all the facts that can be said have been said in this thread