Stupid question ref: oil changes

When I was using Aeroshell, I'd pick it up at Quarles in Springfield, VA (the Shell distributor) on the way to the airport. Now I order Philips from Petroleum Service Company as they have a good price.
 
I have the A&P shop that changes my oil buy the oil and filter for me. :cool:

But "Special Circumstances". Bought the plane June 2024. Replaced/remanufactured 3 cylinders in November because the previous owner... eh, let's let that slide for now. Then, the other three, having a severe case of FOMO, were remanufactured in June. Toss in a "regular" oil change in there along with the "breaking in the new cylinders" changes along with all the oil I added with bad cylinders which probably constituted another change - I've supported the oil industry quite well.

Where do I get my oil? My top off oil (Philips X Country) I get from Amazon. Now that I'm down to a respectable 1 quart every 6 tach hours, I'll probably just buy the spare/top off oil from Amazon again.

On going oil changes? I'll probably have the shop do it. Plane is tied down outside, it's hot/cold/raining/dog ate my homework, etc. Lazy or enjoying life? Take your pick. Maybe I'll start doing it myself now that that the engine is behaving. Or not.
 
Half Fast said:
Oil and filters from Spruce. KGIF has a dump tank for used oil so I don't have to drive to AutoZone or the like, though sometimes I'll just add the old oil to my chemtrail mix.
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When you take the oil to Auto Zone do you tell them your engine burns gas with lead in it and the oil has lead in it.
 
For those who take their used aircraft oil to some Automotive oil dump do you tell them it has lead in it. "Aviation oil from engines burning 100LL (low-lead) avgas will likely contain lead. While 100LL is designed to minimize lead content, it still contains up to 0.56 grams of lead per liter. This lead can end up in the engine oil during combustion and is not fully removed during the engine's operation".
 
brien23 said:
For those who take their used aircraft oil to some Automotive oil dump do you tell them it has lead in it. "Aviation oil from engines burning 100LL (low-lead) avgas will likely contain lead. While 100LL is designed to minimize lead content, it still contains up to 0.56 grams of lead per liter. This lead can end up in the engine oil during combustion and is not fully removed during the engine's operation".
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Won’t it be removed when the oil is recycled? There’s no way that it doesn’t go through a refining process.
 
ateamer said:
Won’t it be removed when the oil is recycled? There’s no way that it doesn’t go through a refining process.
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Not all used engine oil is suitable for recycling. In some cases, the oil may be contaminated with hazardous materials, such as heavy metals, lead or chemicals. In these instances, the oil is sent to a treatment facility for proper disposal.

  • Disposal: Contaminated oil is disposed of in a landfill or incinerated, following strict environmental regulations.
  • Treatment: The contaminated oil is treated with chemicals or other processes to break down hazardous materials.
  • Neutralization: The treated oil is then neutralized, rendering it non-hazardous and safe for disposal.
Proper disposal and treatment of used engine oil is crucial to preventing environmental pollution and protecting public health.
During an oil change, the oil filter is typically replaced with a new one. But what happens to the old filter? In many cases, it’s disposed of in the same manner as the used engine oil – sent to a recycling facility or treatment plant.
 
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I buy oil and filters from Airplaneoil.com. My home airport has a big tote for waste oil. It help the oil end up where you want it, rather than where you don't.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I don’t. Not sure if that makes me a bad person…
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All used engine oil will have some lead and other metals. It's all treated as hazardous, so I wouldn't sweat it. I was in the shop at the airport one day when they came to empty the used oil tank.... it was the same truck they use to pick it up from me at the farm. It all goes to the same recycling stream.

The frustrating part is that they used to pay $.25/ gallon for used oil. Last time oil got cheap they stopped paying and implemented a 250 gallon minimum for pickup.
 
StraightnLevel said:
Too much downtime.

At an annual? Sure. In between annuals it's easier to just do it myself and avoid having the plane down for a week or more waiting for the A&P.
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You have a good point. I might do a mix of me doing it and A&P going forward. Still ironing out this plane owning thing.
 
WDD said:
You have a good point. I might do a mix of me doing it and A&P going forward. Still ironing out this plane owning thing.
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I highly recommend you do it yourself. In addition to cost savings, you will begin the process of learning your aircraft systems, which will make you a more confident pilot. While you have the cowl off, wash the engine down with mineral spirits and check all the fittings and fasteners.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Take a look at the Kitplanes article I cited above. A bit scary but I’m not really sure what to do with the info. The Challenger is basically a sieve rather than a filter, so it has more or less a set size of particles it either lets through or blocks. The paper filters are more “broad spectrum”.

But most critical, after 3 grams of stuff, it blocks up and the pressure skyrockets. The standard is to be able to handle at least 15 grams. All of the paper ones were 17+.

View attachment 143826
But is 3g a little or a lot? They do point out that “Many make TBO with nothing more than a strainer screen”. But still…

As I noted earlier, I’ve not seen a big change in oil analyses since switching. But I do tend to change the oil at 25-30 hours, which has always been my pattern. This info has me thinking I’ll keep up that pattern, especially now that I’m starting to see more carbon in the filter (I’m at 1900 hours). I don’t want the otherwise harmless carbon clogging up the filter completely.
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Is dust a manor contaminant in aircraft engine oil?
 
While I like the idea of keeping engine area and things in general clean, being at a tie down at an airport with strict no wash rules makes such cleaning problematic.
 
When I owned my first plane back in the 1980s the airport management requested that the used oil be poured on the dirt access road to keep the dust down. Some just rolled their planes over to the road and pulled the plug.
 
brien23 said:
When you take the oil to Auto Zone do you tell them your engine burns gas with lead in it and the oil has lead in it.
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Yes, indeed. Here in the Seattle area (and in many other places), the auto places do not accept lead contaminated motor oil. You must take it to local hazardous waste recycling centers.
 
Changing oil at 25 hours and filter every 50 hours makes the most sense to me. I hate cleaning screens. A spin-off is easier and cleaner. No interest in oil analysis.

I change oil and oil type before storage regardless of hours. For years I used Phillips anti rust. Then bought Aeroshell 2NX to blend my own preservative oil. Now I use XC and add Cortec VPCI-326. I still have some 2NX and some Phillips anti rust. I need to do some in-hangar corrosion tests to compare the three.
 
Dana said:
When I owned my first plane back in the 1980s the airport management requested that the used oil be poured on the dirt access road to keep the dust down. Some just rolled their planes over to the road and pulled the plug.
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Probably a superfund site now.
 
Clip4 said:
Is dust a manor contaminant in aircraft engine oil?
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Not 100% sure I understand the question. My oil analyses include measurements of SiO2 and have been low and stable, before and after switching to the Challenger 2 years/13 changes ago.
 
MRC01 said:
Yes, indeed. Here in the Seattle area (and in many other places), the auto places do not accept lead contaminated motor oil. You must take it to local hazardous waste recycling centers.
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Here in AK, my landfill takes waste oil without questions about origin and they don’t care that I’ve added paint solvents in the pail with the oil.
 
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Clip4 said:
Is dust a manor contaminant in aircraft engine oil?
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It depends where you fly. I’m surrounded by glacial rivers so any time the wind blows the air is carrying silt. I have 2 Challenger filters but don’t use them anymore. I prefer Donaldson in this silty environment. Hold a Challenger up to a light and it’s full of pinholes. It stops bugs but not silt. I don’t need a lab to explain that to me.
 
Clip4 said:
Is dust a manor contaminant in aircraft engine oil?
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"Major" contaminant? Usually not. But when I used to do UOA, oil ran through the summer would have higher Si (dirt/dust) due to all the forest fire smoke. Also, carb heat / alternate air is often not filtered. High Si can also indicate unfiltered air getting past a torn or mis-installed air filter.
 
Stewartb said:
Changing oil at 25 hours and filter every 50 hours makes the most sense to me. I hate cleaning screens. A spin-off is easier and cleaner. No interest in oil analysis.
...
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Cutting open the spin-off and inspecting the pleats gets a little messy, even with the proper tools.

I have no interest in oil analysis / UOA either. I did it for years, but after having encountered false negatives (clean UOA but making metal) and false positives (bad UOA on perfectly healthy engine), I decided it was not reliable enough to be worth the time & expense.
 
brien23 said:
For those who take their used aircraft oil to some Automotive oil dump do you tell them it has lead in it.
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Of course not. Nor do I share with them my AvLab oil analysis so they can know how much aluminum, copper, etc., might be in the oil. It's their processing center's responsibility to test oil for contaminants. Besides, when my 6 quarts is poured into a 50 gallon barrel, and then the barrel is pumped into a tanker truck, I suspect the trace amount of lead from my plane will become negligible.
 
WDD said:
You have a good point. I might do a mix of me doing it and A&P going forward. Still ironing out this plane owning thing.
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Changing the filter on a Continental O470 in a C182 looks pretty painful, at least compared to a Lycoming O360.

You at least have a quick-drain, right?
 
asicer said:
Changing the filter on a Continental O470 in a C182 looks pretty painful, at least compared to a Lycoming O360.

You at least have a quick-drain, right?
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I’d have to add a quick turn drain to my list in addition to safety wire, safety wire pliers, drain pan/container, new filter wrench/cap, and a tool to cut open the oil filter. Shoot - I even need a torque wrench.

I have zero inventory right now of oil change tools. When I volunteer to help change oil for our club planes the club guy I work with has all the tools. In addition to his safety wire pliers and what not, he has a very nifty oil filter cutter to look at the filter paper.
 
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WDD said:
I’d have to add a quick turn drain to my list
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Maybe your A&P will charge less for subsequent oil changes after you install one.
WDD said:
in addition to safety wire, safety wire pliers
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$18 from 'Spruce and $12 at Harbor Freight, respectively
WDD said:
drain pan/container
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With a quick drain, you can put the other end of the hose in an empty Costco-sized laundry detergent jug
WDD said:
filter wrench/cap
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This is just a standard 1" socket you can get almost anywhere
WDD said:
tool to cut open the oil filter
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This one is probably optional
 
asicer said:
Maybe your A&P will charge less for subsequent oil changes after you install one.

$18 from 'Spruce and $12 at Harbor Freight, respectively

With a quick drain, you can put the other end of the hose in an empty Costco-sized laundry detergent jug

This is just a standard 1" socket you can get almost anywhere

This one is probably optional
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You might add run the engine after the oil change to see if it leaks before you fly it.
 
WDD said:
... a tool to cut open the oil filter.
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asicer said:
This one is probably optional
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Cutting open the oil filter and inspecting the pleats tells something about engine health, costs nothing and only takes a few minutes. Well worth the peace of mind. It is also part of Lycoming SB480, the manufacturer's oil change guidance.

PS note that Lycoming made this a "Mandatory" SB. That doesn't make it legally mandatory for part 91 operators. But note what the FAA says about service bulletins: https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2023-08/ServiceBulletins_AircraftOwner.pdf
 
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I see Amazon sells Oil Filter cutting tools for $30. Sporty's sells a Champion oil filter cutting tool for $250.

Anything besides the magic word "Airplane" would warrant the extra $220? Surely it's not just marketing........
 
WDD said:
I see Amazon sells Oil Filter cutting tools for $30. Sporty's sells a Champion oil filter cutting tool for $250.
Anything besides the magic word "Airplane" would warrant the extra $220? Surely it's not just marketing........
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I have this one: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/oilfiltercutteraviation.php
That said, a cheap one may do just as good a job. The important thing is that it cuts open the filter cleanly without cutting or contaminating the filter pleats inside. For example, using a hacksaw may contaminate the filter pleats with metal dust from the filter canister.
 
Mikey52 said:
Get the champion oil filter wrench. It has a built in click when the torque is right. Haven't rounded out a filter nut since I got one.
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FWIW ... I only use the nut for removing the filter and never for applying torque to it during installation.

The method I use is not written in stone as it seems some manufacturers allow the nut to be used for installation and some recommend to use the body of the filter when applying torque. The reasoning is that applying torque to the nut could possibly cause cracking at the spot welds that might cause a failure later on.

YMMV ...
 
brien23 said:
You might add run the engine after the oil change to see if it leaks before you fly it.
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Yes, but be careful for the cowling. For example, on many models of the C-172, changing the engine oil only requires removing the upper half of the cowl - you can leave the lower half in place. But if you run the engine with the upper half of the cowl removed, you risk the prop catching on the the lower cowl which would be "a bad thing" :oops:. The upper cowl helps support the lower cowl, and when it is removed the lower cowl sags a bit which reduces the prop clearance. To be safe, after the oil change I reinstall the upper cowl, start & run the engine for 15-30 seconds, then shut it down, remove the upper cowl, check for oil leaks, then reinstall it.

Sure, this is a PITA. When I first got this airplane 17 years ago, I did the post-oil change runup with the upper cowl removed. The next time I did the oil change I noticed abrasion on the forward upper edge of the lower cowl. Investigating, I found similar abrasion on the rear of the prop hub and realized what was happening. I felt that I dodged a bullet there and decided recowling was worth the effort.
 
Daleandee said:
FWIW ... I only use the nut for removing the filter and never for applying torque to it during installation.

The method I use is not written in stone as it seems some manufacturers allow the nut to be used for installation and some recommend to use the body of the filter when applying torque. The reasoning is that applying torque to the nut could possibly cause cracking at the spot welds that might cause a failure later on.

YMMV ...
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How do you measure torque when using the body of the filter and not the nut?
 
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