SONEX is closing down

Not the first experimental aircraft manufacturer to shutter the doors. As a lancair owner I will say there's life after death of the company.
 
Being honest, I have never run into a Sonex of any flavor in the wild outside of Airventure

I give the guy credit for making the video. That clearly was not easy. Was a tough watch
 
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Racerx said:
I give the guy credit for making the video. That clearly was not easy. Was a tough watch
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If I'm being honest, I thought it was about to end like Budd Dwyer's press conference. Hard to watch.
 
Racerx said:
Being honest, I have never run into a Sonex of any flavor in the wild outside of Airventure
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We had a couple at the local field. One guy did some serious X/C's in his, but the others were primarily "around the patch" flyers.
 
It’s hard to sell products when people aren’t buying. Expensive toys are the first thing to go when the economy sucks. There’s a very slim hope that somebody will step up to the plate and save this one.
 
Didn't see that coming...

But, I do wonder if this is a bit of a cause and effect situation. Effect being that (potential) customers run away because of how you're treating them.

Case in point - I had an interest at some point in building one. Not thrilled with their engine options, so I asked if they had any guidance/recommendations for installing other powerplants. Got told this is it, if I don't like it sucks to be me.
Next question was if they could offer any guidance on picking attachment points for a BRS, and what kind of structural mods they'd recomment/advise on. I got told it's a strong airframe, doesn't need a BRS. Pointed out again that I'm more concerned with their engine choices leaving me without a way out over the terrain in my area. No joy.
Then I heard (but didn't personally confirm) that thry had a habit of banning people from their forums if they deviated from the build plans. Not cool.
I don't like it when they behave like certified aircraft manufacturers but hide under the E-AB sticker.

Oh, and their answer when asked about a demo flight was priceless: "go find someone who built one and fly with them". While one of their direct competitors invited me to the factory for a tour and a demo flight.

Needless to say, they never got a dime from me.
 
DMD3. said:
I just pray Vans isn’t next.
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I think Van's has turned a corner, but I wish they would publish supporting data. Used to be at Oshkosh, they would talk about how many tail kits (i.e. new starts) they had shipped (by model) in the preceding 12 months. That gave a really good idea of the trajectory of the company. That information seems to have dried up post-covid.
 
Their reluctance to support the Rotax lineup, and listen to customer feedback set their fate long ago.
 
Ch 7 is going to absolutely wreck a lot of in process builds. He seems very sincere, and the fact they are also going personal bk indicates he's not skimming off the assets. Very sad all around.

As for their unwillingness to offer or support mods to the base plane, I kind of get where they are coming from. Sketchy build ideas that deviate greatly from the kit plans can give a product some bad press. Rutan back in the 80s was often in the similar thought process.

Dick would tell people who deviated from the plans to call it something other than a Vari-Eze, or Long-Eze to protect their integrity. If a builder wants a Subie engine in a Sonex(yes, its been tried) they want to discourage that and keep their Sonex moniker off it.
 
kyleb said:
That's awful. There are probably a lot of builders out there with incomplete kits who will be behind the 8 ball...
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Aren't they just gonna have a big expensive paperweight? If the company's closed, how do you buy the rest of the kit if you're only partway through? Or is Van's the only company that splits it up into several kits?

Really sucks for everyone involved.
 
Racerx said:
I give the guy credit for making the video. That clearly was not easy. Was a tough watch
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Several years ago, he asked me to analyze the accident statistic of Sonexes. I did so, finding some issues (mostly related to the use of an auto engine conversion). He took my report, and posted it, verbatim, on the Sonex website. Stand-up guy, in my experience.

Ron Wanttaja
 
On engine failures. Growing up in SoCal and having a lot of air cooled cars and buggies, I've faced the quality problems many times. SCAT used to make a quality forged 92 stroke crank. It was $$$ but it was a thing of beauty. There hasn't been a US made forged crank for an air cooled VW in 25 years. The crap coming out of China I wouldn't want to fly behind. This is true of many specific VW air cooled parts like the good vintage Melling over-sized oil pumps. I don't think they are avail anymore either.

The best of the best air cooled cases were from 1966-1970, before mfg moved a lot to Brazil. Experts know the SN's of those cases, and they are highly sought after. But, a lot of those cases have been in higher power engines, and suffer elongation of the bearing bores, and fretting. In summary, finding all good quality materials for a well built 2180 or 2076 VW is a real challenge. Aftermarket heads aren't heat treated properly, and the alloy is no where as good as alloy used in Germany for the original 1500/1600DP castings. So, heads start to warp, or seal leaks develop, and the studs can pull out slowly.

If I wanted a Sonex, I would demand one of the 6cyl Jab aircraft engines. But - they've had issues too.
 
This has obviously been in the works for quite some time as the owner was apparently highly leveraged. Probably had a loan and the bank called the note in full.

But I think its worth reminding how volatile this industry can be. Just raw aluminum prices alone have doubled in the last 18 months. Over 7 bucks a pound when not long ago it was 3.20.
 
Racerx said:
But I think its worth reminding how volatile this industry can be. Just raw aluminum prices alone have doubled in the last 18 months. Over 7 bucks a pound when not long ago it was 3.20.
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Aluminum prices have gone nuts.. Was at the steel yard yesterday, and 6061T6 drops that were considered to small to be anything but scrap were priced at $4.50 a pound.... 2024 sheet has even surpassed that craziness.
 
Its likely a combination of things. The cost of the raw material as well as the labor to make parts for the kits has gone up significantly over the past 5-10 years. Basic med also cut out alot of their customer base as many were building a sonex because it was cheap and you could fly under the light sport rules with just a drivers license for a medical. I think its too early to say for sure but mosaic was probably going to be another big problem as the sonex was designed around light sport requirements so why build one when there are suddenly dozens of other options with better specs that you can build and fly for close to the same money now. They also had some side projects going on with using the jet as a drone. Who knows what happened with those contracts or if they made or lost money on them. Couple all of that with trying to design, manufacture, and release the high wing and its alot for a small business to absorb and still stay viable.

The only bright spot in this whole situation is that the A model sonex were sold with a full set of plans that provided dimensions sbd details for every component. You could build a sonex completely from plans. This will keep those airplanes and projects supportable going forward. The B model isnt that much different and the only thing that would be difficult to fabricate would be the gas tank and canopy for that airplane. The company closing really sucks but its not the end of seeing sonex airplanes flying around. They will just take more effort to finish out.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Aren't they just gonna have a big expensive paperweight? If the company's closed, how do you buy the rest of the kit if you're only partway through? Or is Van's the only company that splits it up into several kits?

Really sucks for everyone involved.
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If I’m not mistaken, when Sonex first hit the scene building one from scratch, or from a minimalist kit was an option. I would assume it’s still possible to complete an orphaned kit as a plans built example going forward. Unfortunately, with the advent of kit built homebuilts most builders are unfamiliar with the skills and tooling required to do so. Still, it’s a process that can be learned and is certainly doable.
 
painless said:
If I’m not mistaken, when Sonex first hit the scene building one from scratch, or from a minimalist kit was an option. I would assume it’s still possible to complete an orphaned kit as a plans built example going forward. Unfortunately, with the advent of kit built homebuilts most builders are unfamiliar with the skills and tooling required to do so. Still, it’s a process that can be learned and is certainly doable.
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Only the original A model Sonex had a full set of plans allowing it to be scratch built. The Waiex, Onex, and B model Sonex only had enough details in the plans to assemble the kits.
 
The Onex and Highwing were both very tempting to me but the supported engine options were always a turnoff. Over the last year they finally endorsed a third party FWF kit for the Rotax on the onex that certainly increased my interest level but I was still concerned over how much own my own design work there may be. Plus the landing gear on the onex which has been a problem for years concerned me. It's too weak and not tall enough for even a VW engine.

The Highwing had my attention, it was everything I wanted in an airplane and they finally designed it to work around a Rotax and UL. The prototype with the UL seemed to have great performance but I was still waiting for the first one to be built with a Rotax as I don't care for the UL either. I really wish they would have designed it around an IO-233 or other small continental engines since they are a dime a dozen.

While the world anxiously awaited the Highwing kits they focused on the Subsonex, a boutique toy that would only have a year or two of sales success.
 
High end kits still seem to be selling well. Wait times for a quick-build RV 10 kit are running 26 weeks, and they are priced at $116,300. Bargain priced kits like the SONEX line are losing their target audience as economic woes are hitting the lower end middle class harder than higher income builders. I don't know what the answer is.
 
Build from plans as was done before the eighty’s. Now days we don’t have builders we have contractors.
Buy a fast build kit and go to a build center, buy a new engine, buy an avionics package all wired up in your panel, buy an interior, buy a paint job, etc.
 
ateamer said:
Van’s’ problem had nothing to do with the -15.
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I'd wager that the -15 was a contributor. The development cycle, iterations, and therefore cost have/had to be surprisingly large. They were paying for engineers, fabricators, and the like for most of that time. If it was less than $500K out of pocket, I'd be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are in for a million bucks of development cost by now.
 
Kinder said:
Build from plans as was done before the eighty’s. Now days we don’t have builders we have contractors.
Buy a fast build kit and go to a build center, buy a new engine, buy an avionics package all wired up in your panel, buy an interior, buy a paint job, etc.
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That describes a lot of new kitbuilt aircraft (and builders).
 
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