Being discussed here https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/sonex-is-closing-down.153811/
The Onex and Highwing were both very tempting to me but the supported engine options were always a turnoff. Over the last year they finally endorsed a third party FWF kit for the Rotax on the onex that certainly increased my interest level but I was still concerned over how much own my own design work there may be. Plus the landing gear on the onex which has been a problem for years concerned me. It's too weak and not tall enough for even a VW engine.
The Highwing had my attention, it was everything I wanted in an airplane and they finally designed it to work around a Rotax and UL. The prototype with the UL seemed to have great performance but I was still waiting for the first one to be built with a Rotax as I don't care for the UL either. I really wish they would have designed it around an IO-233 or other small continental engines since they are a dime a dozen.
While the world anxiously awaited the Highwing kits they focused on the Subsonex, a boutique toy that would only have a year or two of sales success.
Did the competitor?Didn't see that coming...
But, I do wonder if this is a bit of a cause and effect situation. Effect being that (potential) customers run away because of how you're treating them.
Case in point - I had an interest at some point in building one. Not thrilled with their engine options, so I asked if they had any guidance/recommendations for installing other powerplants. Got told this is it, if I don't like it sucks to be me.
Next question was if they could offer any guidance on picking attachment points for a BRS, and what kind of structural mods they'd recomment/advise on. I got told it's a strong airframe, doesn't need a BRS. Pointed out again that I'm more concerned with their engine choices leaving me without a way out over the terrain in my area. No joy.
Then I heard (but didn't personally confirm) that thry had a habit of banning people from their forums if they deviated from the build plans. Not cool.
I don't like it when they behave like certified aircraft manufacturers but hide under the E-AB sticker.
Oh, and their answer when asked about a demo flight was priceless: "go find someone who built one and fly with them". While one of their direct competitors invited me to the factory for a tour and a demo flight.
Needless to say, they never got a dime from me.
Yes, in more than one way.Did the competitor?
Being honest, I have never run into a Sonex of any flavor in the wild outside of Airventure
There are a lot of them in Texas. I've seen more engine-out issues personally in Sonex's than any other plane! I've seen one have 3 engine failures! I go to a lot of fly-ins and I've seen three different ones come in dead-stick. I'm guessing that none of these were reported, which would obviously skew the statistics.Several years ago, he asked me to analyze the accident statistic of Sonexes. I did so, finding some issues (mostly related to the use of an auto engine conversion).
Ron Wanttaja
Same for me. I looked at a OneX once and it was very tempting. A small plane with folding wings that could fit almost anywhere. I didn't care for the engine though. I'm okay with a home-built plane, but I'd prefer an engine from a factory!The Onex and Highwing were both very tempting to me but the supported engine options were always a turnoff.
I've also seen one with a Corvair engine (the Kleenex) and one with a Jabiru. The Jabiru-powered one also had an engine failure!
My friend was climbing out in his Jabiru-powered Sonex when the engine seized. He was okay, made it back to the airport and the plane was not damaged. He was scheduled for major back surgery the next week, so another friend and I pulled the engine, crated it and sent it to Jabiru. When it was returned, we put it back on the plane, but before he could test fly it, Jabiru called and said they needed it back. They had used the wrong Loctite and would have to tear the engine apart again. Of course they paid for everything, but when he got the engine back and on the plane, he sold the plane, with a fair warning to the guy who bought it.When building my taildragger the Jabiru 3300 was a consideration as my friend and building partner had a 3300 taildragger Sonex and I loved the power. But in those days Jabiru was having a number of serious issues (they say the Gen 4 is much better) so I started to look elsewhere.
Why did people opt for the Sonex rather than one of the RV models?Why is the engine issue obvious to so many but is lost on the manufacturer?
The issue with the Corvair was the prop support issue. I've heard, but not seen that a 5th bearing journal has been developed to basically solve the thrust issue. Few Corvairs run a PSRU, but it would be a good place for one as the Corvair engine likes to rev.
If I were to get involved with any aftermarket car engine, it would likely be a Corvair with the 5th bearing,
Can you share your set-up for dual ignition into single plugs, please?I have a Marvel Schebler aircraft carb and dual ignition (albeit single plugs).
Can you share your set-up for dual ignition into single plugs, please?

flycorvair.net

What does the latest, most reliable, complete Corvair firewall fwd, ready to run Corvair engine cost? Ballpark figure?
I was considering making an offer to my neighbor who has an abandoned Sonex project, complete with AeroVee engine. I was interested in the engine - I probably wouldn't want the airframe/kit.
Before I spoke with the neighbor, I reached out to another friend who's a serious gear head. Turns out he'd helped someone build up one of the AeroVee kits and was not impressed. The major components in the kit were inexpensive Brazilian repro parts, not the improved parts used in higher performance VW's and higher end VW aero engines.

Want me to ask about it next time I see him?I might be interested in the airframe but not the engine ...
Want me to ask about it next time I see him?
And who came up with the horrible idea of turbocharging it? That's turning an already heat-marginal engine into an overstressed, overheated, disaster waiting to happen.Good parts can be sourced and the engine can be well built but that doesn't fix the problem of it wanting to run hot requiring frequent valve & head work. Smaller displacement VW's have been powering homebuilts for a long time and they can & do work well. It's just my personal belief that the Sonex is asking a bit too much from these small engines.![]()
When the factory that designed and sold the engine has two factory aircraft crash on takeoff from engine failures and can’t say why and isn’t even willing to speculate as to what might have failed in the engine the statistics no longer matter because the trust is lost.Why did people opt for the Sonex rather than one of the RV models?
Cost. Not only was the kit less expensive, but the VW-based power plants were much less expensive than a Lycoming for an RVs or even a Rotaxe. Not everyone building an airplane has a generous budget, so the lower kit cost and much lower engine price was a major attraction.
I've done a lot of studies on engine reliability in homebuilts. There's no question the reliability of auto engine conversions is less than traditional engines, and it's less than the four-stroke Rotaxes can achieve as well. About 25% of the accidents involving VW-powered homebuilts are due to problems with the engine, vs. about 8% of those with traditional engines.
It's difficult to estimate the actual rate of failure, though. The 25%/8% figures give us a clue, but it actually doesn't tell us how likely a given engine type would fail, in an given year. It's easy enough for certified aircraft, but about 12% of homebuilt aircraft don't list a specific engine type in the FAA registry. That's over 3,000 aircraft.
Of course, I *have* tackled this issue.
I took the FAA registry to determine how many engines of a given type were installed in the homebuilt fleet. I took the list of homebuilts with unspecified engines, and compared this list to the NTSB accident database to try to estimate what percentage of that 3,000+ aircraft had Lycoming, Continental, VW, and other types of engines.
For instance, I estimated that about 4,800 of the homebuilt fleet had Continental engines. Over the previous 24 years, 39 accidents were attributed to mechanical failure of the engine (this does not include cases where the NTSB was unable to determine the loss of power, which would add another 34 cases). That averages to a 1.62 accidents per year.
So... 39 failures divided by 4,800, divided by 1.62. That comes out to 0.034% of Continental-powered homebuilts suffering an accident due to mechanical failure of the engine.
Note that this NOT "34 percent". This is point zero three four percent.
Pretty good odds, really.
Did I run it for other engines? Sure 'nuff. Rotax 912 was 0.039%, slightly higher.
VWs were about twice that... 0.076% of homebuilts with a VW engine suffered a reportable accident due to mechanical failure of the engine. Oh, and it was the best of the lot, as far as auto-engine conversions were concerned.
Twice the failure rate...twice that of a VERY LOW failure rate. I estimated there had been about 2500 VW-powered homebuilts in the US registry, either active or deregistered aircraft. That's still less than two accidents per year due to VW engine mechanical failure.
So, yes, they're less reliable. But the actual failure rate is pretty low.
But keep in mind, that my accident data includes ONLY accidents that met the NTSB reportability criteria. A failure with a successful deadstick doesn't get in the NTSB listing. Also, the VW has a rate of undermined engine failure about twice that as Continentals. Even so, that's not a lot of aircraft affected every year.
Ron Wanttaja
When the factory that designed and sold the engine has two factory aircraft crash on takeoff from engine failures and can’t say why and isn’t even willing to speculate as to what might have failed in the engine the statistics no longer matter because the trust is lost.
“Don’t take life serious. It ain’t nohow permanent.”Ah c'mon, it's only your life.
You'd need to compete on price; you're not going to win the pretty contest (though you'll place well ahead of Zenith).Of course then you're directly competing against the rv12 and all the European light sports.
Boy, I don't know. Personally I think the RV12 is pretty homely too. The Sonex is the best looking of the itty bitty planes IMO, sleek fiberglass Euro entries notwithstanding. The ones recently on the cover of Sport Aviation look really nice and perform nice as well. Actually Sling makes some good looking stuff too. It is a somewhat crowded market when you think about it.You'd need to compete on price; you're not going to win the pretty contest (though you'll place well ahead of Zenith).
While the 700/750 looks agricultural, the 600/650 is a decent looking aircraft.I'll agree with you on the Zenith, though![]()
RANS never seems to get much attention but I think they've got some decent offerings. I have no idea of the state of the company, but I've heard decent stuff about them in the past....The Sonex is the best looking of the itty bitty planes IMO, sleek fiberglass Euro entries notwithstanding...
To be fair, I flew behind my aerovee powered sonex for around 150 hours without issue. The engine itself is solid. Of all the engine engine out accidents, few if any had failures due to the hardware making up the engine. Broken cranks, connecting rods, dropped valve seats, etc were all very rare.Ah c'mon, it's only your life.
To be fair, I flew behind my aerovee powered sonex for around 150 hours without issue. The engine itself is solid. Of all the engine engine out accidents, few if any had failures due to the hardware making up the engine. Broken cranks, connecting rods, dropped valve seats, etc were all very rare.
I’ll have to look into some of the later failures. There were 3 early failures that I know of on that list. One was not an aerovee. It was a Great Plains engine using the force 1 prop hub and crank. One was because the person tried to remove the prop hub from the crank and reinstall it with a press without supporting the crank properly and one was due to the prop hub not being seated all the way when installed. The factory did address crank/hub concerns pretty early on by offering an option to have the hub installed to the crank by the factory. Although there were not failures due to it at the time, the weak points in the crank such as the woodruff key and the groove right behind the crank nose were redesigned as part of the aerovee 2.1 motor. Keep in mind when looking at the list of sonex accidents that not every vw powered airplane was powered by an aerovee. There were people also putting in Great Plains engines as welll as remasters. Both of which used different cranks and prop hubs attachment methods. When I got rid of my aerocarb I also went through the whole engine and eliminated what I saw as the weak points. The force 1 prop hub with the case machined for the extra bearing is what I chose even though I had no issues with the aerovee 2.0 crank.A scroll down this list of Sonex accidents and incidents reveals several VW-based engines with crankshaft failures. I'm not well versed in these VW conversions, maybe the Aerovee-branded conversion incorporates some additional crank journal reinforcement that others don't.
To your point about the crappy carburetor, there do seem to be a large number of unexplained losses of engine power manifesting in pops and rough operation.
N5560: "Forced landing on a road following an inflight loss of a propeller." (YouTube link)
N164JL: "Examinations revealed that the propeller hub had separated from the crankshaft." (Maybe not a material fracture, sounds like a tapered adapter loosened and detached.)
N478SX: "The propeller and hub separated in-flight as result of a crankshaft failure."
N244HB: "Postaccident examination of the engine indicated that the crankshaft had fractured due to a fatigue crack that had initiated at a fillet radius at the forward end of the No. 2 main bearing journal where the journal transitioned to the forward cheek."
N7035Z: "Photographs of the crankshaft revealed that it fractured just aft of the propeller mounting hub/flange. The fracture surfaces on the hub exhibited features consistent with fatigue crack propagation through the wall thickness of the crankshaft and the subsequent overstress fracture of the remaining portion of the crankshaft."
N255BZ: "The aircraft ... experienced an inflight separation of the propeller and subsequent forced landing"
Stolen valor, or Walter Mitty award.