So, uhh... wow? (pilot in class Bravo without clearance, McCarran)

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by onwards, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. Luigi

    Luigi Line Up and Wait

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    Well, I guess J hasn't flown in a while.
     
  2. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Wife didn't approve.
     
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  3. Luigi

    Luigi Line Up and Wait

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    Excellent point!
     
  4. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    at least not that aircraft.
     
  5. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You don't know that. Blocking atail number on the tracking sites doesn't mean the aircraft is not flying.
     
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  6. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Jettrack.io specializes in tracking blocked flights..
     
  7. Luigi

    Luigi Line Up and Wait

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    3 FBO's at KTOA.
     
  8. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    except that recently I did look at flightaware. On 4 July, the aircraft hadn't flown since 21 June.
     
  9. Luigi

    Luigi Line Up and Wait

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    Got an email today offering me a radar reflective sticker for my plane that would guaranty an automatic Class B clearance, only $1000.00, payable in India. Sound like a good deal?? :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    no. All you need to do is talk to ATC.

    (edit: green font for sarcasm)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  11. Luigi

    Luigi Line Up and Wait

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    yea, but you have to get a clearance.
     
  12. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    FlightRadar also obeys the BARR list, so you won't see any more flights there.

    No, they just blocked their flights. Anyone can do it.

    No, it hadn't had any flights that showed up on FlightAware, because he blocked the aircraft after 21 June. You won't see any more flights there...

    What is this, WordPerfect on DOS?!? :rofl:
     
  13. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    He didn't block it until after 4 July. Sometime after 4 July, it was blocked on flight aware.

    btw - he hasn't blocked it on every site...
     
  14. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If he's on the BARR list now, it'll be blocked on any site that gets the FAA feed, which includes all the big ones. If he only blocked FlightAware and didn't get on the BARR list, he's a real idio... Oh, wait. :rofl:

    There are sites that aggregate ADS-B data only that don't block anyone, but they're highly substandard compared to the mainstream BARR-obeying ones. I don't know of any that show historical flights, they're live-only.
     
  15. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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  16. Jim K

    Jim K Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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  17. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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  18. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    Damn nice plane.
     
  19. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  20. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    They might do some blocking, or he's turned his transponder off because he doesn't show on that site (after the BARR block) even looking at history. (I looked at other tail numbers and they have history)
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  21. NHWannabe

    NHWannabe Line Up and Wait

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    Got this from the Facebook group "The Aviators Lounge" some guy did an FOIA request on this.

    All info he received is at this location

    https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...GgNWSIcWRs57BoVHVs6NpgaNdlMsM5kmOl2IIHIQHrvnk

    Here is what he posted

    As promised, the final portion of the FOIA response concerning N731NR (the guy who busted Las Vegas class B). I received a disc from the FAA containing the Air Traffic Organization response and I loaded everything from that disc into this Google Drive folder. It contains ATC audio, the phone call the pilot made, the Mandatory Occurrence Report, a FOIA denial letter, and the radar data (in a completely unusable PPB file, which was generated by the proprietary FALCON3 program, you can look at the readout though). The MOR describes poor professionalism by both the pilot and controller (pilot was belligerent and flagrantly violated airspace, controller was lazy and provided no assistance). In the phone call, the pilot claims his six year old daughter had been throwing up and crying for the last hour at 16,500 and that's why he violated and wouldn't comply (and he was apologetic). This brings me to the question, if you have a passenger in that state, why would you have continued for that much time and let it get you into a state where you couldn't safely fly your aircraft? Now I also think we as ATC could have done better. Listening to everything, workload was light and there was no reason a clearance and vectoring to keep off the LAS final could not have been accomplished. There is a position relief briefing in the recording and the controller identified the situation "he's about to enter the airspace without a clearance, he's just gonna violate it I guess" and then the controller does nothing to prevent it. I think that's unacceptable and poor service. One of our most important jobs and the whole reason we have radar surveillance is to observe situations and ensure compliance and safety. I'd always much rather be proactive and prevent a pilot deviation. The Flight Standards portion of this request returned nothing because it was too early, but I may re-submit that portion to learn if any certificate action was taken.
     
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  22. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    bah - blaming the controller is weak... beyond weak.
     
  23. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I do think the controller was at fault for not giving him vectors. Vectors out of the bravo. She really did do nothing.
     
  24. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    is this info coming from someone "on the inside" who has access to this data and is now spreading it on the internet?
     
  25. NHWannabe

    NHWannabe Line Up and Wait

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    According to the poster on Facebook he received at as a response to his FOIA request
     
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  26. Piper18O

    Piper18O Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I was thinking about this very case about a week ago when I was flying into Houston. The airport I was flying into was just outside the Bravo, but from where I was flying from, a direct flight cuts into the bravo about 5 miles or so. Sometimes I just fly around, even though I am getting flight following. This time, I went ahead and requested a Bravo clearance, and was given it about 5 minutes before entering. I then had a hand-off, and the next controller without any prompting Issued another clearance to enter the 'Bravo literally as I basically touched my nose across the line. I am curious. Does anybody think he did not know that the previous controller had already cleared me in, and decided to issue that 2nd clearance, (his first to me) to avoid a situation like the Las Vegas ordeal? Maybe I am reading into this all too much, but now I wonder if I should have clarified with that 2nd controller that I had been given the clearance. Thoughts anyone?
     
  27. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    Interesting that the FAA complied so quickly with a request, and that they supplied recordings of a phone call with a pilot.

    And did that recording get posted on the internet? I wouldn’t have guessed that could be an outcome of phoning the FAA.
     
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  28. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Line Up and Wait

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    Hard to listen to due to audio quality, but yes it's part of that posting, including a lot if info that would be considered PII. Makes me want to be very careful what I would say if I ever got a brasher.
     
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  29. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    It's a time code on the right channel. Listen only to the left channel and it's clear.
     
  30. G-force

    G-force Pre-takeoff checklist

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    In that situation would have stated that "I've been cleared into the Bravo" when I called up after the hand off in case the new controller didn't have that info, but saw you seconds from entering. Perhaps he had somewhat more pressing calls to make, but called you instead to clear you through to avoid hassles, on yours and his end by having a busted bravo situation.

     
  31. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    The controller wasn't sure if the Bravo clearance had been issued by the previous controller so he issued a new one. Doing it that way is more efficient than first asking if it had been issued and then following up with a clearance if it hadn't.
     
  32. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    If you have a sick passenger maybe just telling the controller you have a medical issue would work better than getting into a ****ing contest with the controller.
     
  33. GaryM

    GaryM Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sure, it would be much more convincing had the pilot thought of it at the time, and not after the fact.
     
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  34. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    Well, sometimes the pilot is too busy flying the plane to think up clever explanations. It's easier to get creative when back on the ground with a little leisure in which to kick around a few ideas.
     
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  35. NHWannabe

    NHWannabe Line Up and Wait

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    I didn't look at his flight track but if you have a sick kid who is crying she has to go to the bathroom fort he last hour and puked don't you get on the ground?
     
  36. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Not when you're as self centered as he is.

    Whether the story is true or made up, it doesn't make him look any better.
     
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  37. clear_prop

    clear_prop Pre-Flight

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    I think some controllers say 'cleared into the Bravo' just to have it on the tape even though they know you are cleared already. Many times, I'll get 'cleared into the Bravo' on a frequency change when I'm already well inside the Bravo and cleared by the previous controller(s).
     
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  38. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Or they do it so you won't ask them again. It's like sticking in "MAINTAIN VFR" in conditions where you'd not even consider not doing so.
     
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  39. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

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    FOIA requests usually result in complete non-redacted information. In this case they decided to leave his name, address and phone number in the audio recording, however redact some of the information on the forms.

    I listened to it out of curiosity of how these types of calls go. It was a bit hard to listen to, first because of the call quality, second because this guy just whines like a little diaper baby.
     
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  40. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's quite a contrast with Harrison Ford's call after landing on a taxiway, in which he took complete responsibility.
     
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