So, uhh... wow? (pilot in class Bravo without clearance, McCarran)

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by onwards, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Actually, that's the official FAA-approved method under the Compliance Program orders.
     
  2. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    We've had people land on the taxiway at major airports before. I knew a guy who did it at BWI. The event was so common at the old Denver (Stapleton) that they put a note on the airport diagram to warn you not to mistake taxiway C for a runway. One of Texas Air's planes did so with Lorenzo on board (that created a bit of a commotion).
     
  3. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    I've been trying for 25 years of Internet usage to wean myself off emoticons. :idea:
     
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  4. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Oops, sorry, I didn't stop to consider that my post might be like offering an alcoholic a drink! ;)
     
  5. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The only reason you even know those things happened is because of who it was. Anybody else and it would’ve never made the news. If you say you’ve never made similar mistakes; mistakes that could endanger others if the circumstances were different, I’ll call you a liar and not feel bad about it.

    I have no idea if he’s capable of flying or not, but I know it’s not my job to decide, especially without even meeting the guy. He may very well be past the point he should be operating in complicated airspace like that. But those situations could happen to any of us. Anyone that thinks they couldn’t is lying to us and or themselves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  6. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    When you register an aircraft owned by an LLC, you have to tell the FAA who all the owners of the LLC are. You could make it more complicated by having the LLC owned by a corp., but it wouldn't take long to get to the humans controlling the company.
     
  7. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    His most recent flight appears to have been a filed IFR plan and his route looks like it was done by all the numbers.

    But he goes through the Las Vegas airspace more than once and was also under the MSP Bravo earlier so its pretty hard to think he confused Las Vegas with Class Charlie.
     
  8. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Have you ever actually landed at SNA?
     
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  9. MacFly

    MacFly Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You've landed on a taxiway at a major airport while a 737 was taxiing on it? I mean, it's OK if you have....nothing to be embarrassed about...apparently it's a very common event and entirely excusable.
     
  10. MacFly

    MacFly Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I've never landed on a taxiway anywhere.
     
  11. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You wouldn’t have to ask the question if you read my post.
     
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  12. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Line Up and Wait

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    Sorry but Centurion guy loses this when he is told to get out of the Bravo and then has 5 year old "NO, YES" hissy fit with the controller and does not exit the Bravo. Harrison may be too old to fly, or not, but there is no comparison between the two pilots. If it had been a non-COVID environment, he would have been a major mid-air risk. As it was the controller had to warn a passenger jet that this jerk was in the airspace without a clearance.

    BTW on the lighter side, every time I hear Centurion, I think of Life of Brian by Monty Python.
     
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  13. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Well at least he didn't give the controller a lecture on Latin grammar!
     
  14. MacFly

    MacFly Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah, you're right. Sorry. I should probably read it.
     
  15. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Yeah.. that what kills me. If he's used to flying IFR.. or getting clearances, or the implicit 2-way comm clearance you get in C and D.. fine. But the whiny "Noooo" is dumb, that right there is the cause for why the FAA needs to nail this guy. PIC has sole authority over aircraft, but in general we do what ATC asks unless we can't for safety issues. This guy was just being a raging DICK
     
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  16. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You have to watch out for the D, you don't get an implicit clearance through D, you need to ask for it. Around here there is a letter of agreement with Boston approach for a couple Ds, where ATC controls above 2,500 feet. But if ATC isn't paying attention and you aren't either and you bust D, it's your fault.
     
  17. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm hoping you just typed the wrong letter a bunch of times, otherwise this makes no sense.
     
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  18. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    that's what she said?
     
  19. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Atc does not control Delta airspace when you are on VFR flight following, that's my understanding. They will sometimes call the tower and arrange your passage, but, sometimes they are busy. You need to climb or ask the tower yourself. Again, I'm doubting myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct. Charlie you just need to be talking to ATC.
     
  20. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nope. BOS App has the class D airspeed above 2500' for the airports under the BOS Class Bravo. (actually, I don't remember if it's 2500' MSL and above or above 2500')

    For example, if you want to transit KBED at 2600', the tower will tell you to contact Boston Approach.
     
  21. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    .. I can't remember if it was here or somewhere else maybe Reddit where someone claimed he was in the right for entering a class Delta even after the tower denied him entry due to the pattern being full. His logic was that strictly per the rules he established two way communication so didn't break anything

    Some people are hopelessly dense
     
  22. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Gotcha
     
  23. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    Not sure - he might have been legally right, but could easily have been legally dead, too. No law or regulation works without at least assuming at least a little common sense from people.
     
  24. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Don't remember seeing that here so must have been reddit. I don't read the flying related stuff on reddit (anymore). But I'll leave this here:

    91.123 (b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.
     
  25. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    that would seem to be the trump card, wouldn't it?
     
  26. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    You left out the next paragraph:

    (c) Paragraph (b) does not apply to Cessna Centurions in the KLAS Class B Airspace.
     
  27. Ryanb

    Ryanb Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    It’s not too far of a stretch.
     
  28. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Line Up and Wait

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    You left out the footnote "(1) if being piloted by a Nimtz Class Douche Canoe". (stolen from someone here or on another forum, world class put down)
     
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  29. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Did Han Solo steal your girlfriend?
     
  30. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    @onwards - You should add a poll to this thread:

    Who is worse?
    Bravo Buster
    Harrison Ford
     
  31. MacFly

    MacFly Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I could see how being a Star Wars fanboy might influence one's perception of taxiway landings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  32. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    I'm sorry if I struck a nerve.
     
  33. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    It does seem quite odd, his responses. One has to wonder if something else was going on. No excuse, but I wonder if there is more to the story.
     
  34. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They don't "control" it per se, but they are supposed to call the tower and arrange your transit for you.

    That's unusual though, and it's noted very clearly on the chart. And while Boston Approach may be the facility you need to contact, you do NOT need a clearance to enter the Delta anyway. Two way communication with Boston Approach would be sufficient. There's no "Cleared into class Delta".
     
  35. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    there's more than one Delta where Delta airspace above a certain altitude is controlled by TRACON for the purpose of transit through under a Letter of Agreement, without being noted on the chart. I suspect that the reason for the note in the ATC handbook - they know and we don't.
     
  36. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's not at all what I asked. Have you ever landed at SNA? How about ORD?
     
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  37. Lndwarrior

    Lndwarrior Line Up and Wait

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    It seems to me the people on this forum just get stupider and more argumentative as time goes by. There was a time when this forum was a great source for information and respectful discussion. Those days are long gone... along with some of the most knowledgeable members.
     
  38. Ryanb

    Ryanb Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    We’ve gained ALOT of keyboard warriors in the past few years.
     
  39. Luigi

    Luigi Line Up and Wait

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    I knew Trump would get the blame eventually! :)
     
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  40. ChrisK

    ChrisK En-Route

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    I was thinking about this. "He without sin" notwithstanding, if I ever stupidly land on a taxiway by accident, I don't want someone quoting me with a screenshot.

    A compliance attitude is what matters. Heck, maybe even embracing learning opportunities. If you prove you can learn and grow, we should support you, even if you messed up.
     
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