Shortcuts to an aviation career?

One thing I haven't heard is can you pass a FAA class I physical with no problems? Most commuter & major require you to have a Class I just to interview. When I retired from the military (I was not a military pilot but enlisted & I had 3500 hours then with ATP SEL & MEL, CFII) I hired onto a commuter and that was the first thing they asked on the interview.
 
tmyers said:
Thanks for the even handed response, I have learned to appreciate how level headed and thought out your responses are. My son recently resigned his commission from the navy. Two years in the Persian Gulf did something to spook him i think. Someday he will share. I truly appreciate what you guys do and have done for all of us.

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A lot of guys talk to me about getting out and making that decision. I tell them all that we need good people everywhere. It's totally true; all the good guys can't go to the ANG or AD will be screwed which is bad for all of us. I'm glad many of my friends stayed on AD; I hope some of them get to make an impact. It sucks to see great people being overlooked. Big blue definitely has to rethink what keeps people on AD. Money alone isn't going to keep the right people.
 
I am ex AF and as such loyal to them, but I wonder if the AF has lost its mission. Seems the only thing that is not redundant with other services is maybe MAC SAC and the big iron.

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EvilEagle said:
A lot of guys talk to me about getting out and making that decision. I tell them all that we need good people everywhere. It's totally true; all the good guys can't go to the ANG or AD will be screwed which is bad for all of us. I'm glad many of my friends stayed on AD; I hope some of them get to make an impact. It sucks to see great people being overlooked. Big blue definitely has to rethink what keeps people on AD. Money alone isn't going to keep the right people.
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Same thing is happening on my side of the industry too.
 
EvilEagle said:
A lot of guys talk to me about getting out and making that decision. I tell them all that we need good people everywhere. It's totally true; all the good guys can't go to the ANG or AD will be screwed which is bad for all of us. I'm glad many of my friends stayed on AD; I hope some of them get to make an impact. It sucks to see great people being overlooked. Big blue definitely has to rethink what keeps people on AD. Money alone isn't going to keep the right people.
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Every AF pilot I have met in recent years has been flying a desk. There should be a better source of for administrators within the AF than the pilot ranks.
 
tmyers said:
I am ex AF and as such loyal to them, but I wonder if the AF has lost its mission. Seems the only thing that is not redundant with other services is maybe MAC SAC and the big iron.

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The tactical fighter mission and CSAR is really the only thing that is done by multiple services. You'll never convince anyone in the USAF (or anyone being honest in the Navy or Marine Corps) that they can do the tactical fighter mission as well or better than the USAF. They have less types, less missions, less gas (boat), less airframes and no dedicated force. If anything, get rid of the other services air components (cue the Marines yelling about their rarely-used-in-combat short deck carriers in 3...2...1...)
 
weilke said:
Every AF pilot I have met in recent years has been flying a desk. There should be a better source of for administrators within the AF than the pilot ranks.
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Agreed. Big blue has a problem that they only have designed one path for all pilots - it is very wide at the beginning of your career but about the time you get to major you are either on your way to becoming the chief of staff or you are getting farmed out to the training command, unimportant staff duties, etc. There's no mainstream path in the USAF to keep you in the cockpit most of your career. And they wonder why guys are getting out in droves...
 
EvilEagle said:
Agreed. Big blue has a problem that they only have designed one path for all pilots - it is very wide at the beginning of your career but about the time you get to major you are either on your way to becoming the chief of staff or you are getting farmed out to the training command, unimportant staff duties, etc. There's no mainstream path in the USAF to keep you in the cockpit most of your career. And they wonder why guys are getting out in droves...
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You would think that there is no shortage of guys who just want to fly and dont have the ambition to be the head of Jello and electrical cord safety for the pentagon.

I think this calls for a task-force with all the stakeholders to proactively create templates for the warfighter to leverage 21st century.... or something like that.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
so sad....I could cry dude. :D
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I'm a little ****ed as a taxpayer. We are being very inefficient with our very expensively trained people.


weilke said:
You would think that there is no shortage of guys who just want to fly and dont have the ambition to be the head of Jello and electrical cord safety for the pentagon.

I think this calls for a task-force with all the stakeholders to proactively create templates for the warfighter to leverage 21st century.... or something like that.
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There is definitely no shortage of pilots that just want to do the job. There's just no way (currently) to make it happen. If you are a young guy and a turd in the jet you can go cuddle up to some general as his aide or executive officer and he'll make sure that you get the assignment you want - so now when assignment time comes the warfighter dude that is awesome at his job and flies his ass off, instructs all the time, etc gets second choice to the guy who flies twice a month because he's too busy carrying the general's briefcase around. One small example.... I'll get off my soap container.
 
msmith3972 said:
Paying for the lessons isn't the problem. I work at night, sometimes 12 hours. For about 2 1/2 months I couldn't go at all, which basically made me start over. Not everyone's situation is the same, and taking longer in calendar time doesn't necessarily equate to lack of aptitude. If I had 80 hours I could see your point, maybe. And even then not so much. I talked to one instructor who said he won't sign off on PPL before 90 hours!
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A CFI who states that needs to have that fact broadcast to evryone at the local airports so that students can avoid him. That is an unreasonable threshold and without foundation in either the regulations or in the reality of what most students are capable of. I'm surprised that he is able to stay in business.
 
EvilEagle said:
I'm a little ****ed as a taxpayer. We are being very inefficient with our very expensively trained people.




There is definitely no shortage of pilots that just want to do the job. There's just no way (currently) to make it happen. If you are a young guy and a turd in the jet you can go cuddle up to some general as his aide or executive officer and he'll make sure that you get the assignment you want - so now when assignment time comes the warfighter dude that is awesome at his job and flies his ass off, instructs all the time, etc gets second choice to the guy who flies twice a month because he's too busy carrying the general's briefcase around. One small example.... I'll get off my soap container.
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Believe it or not it was no different when I was in 79 through 83 on the non-commissioned side. I did learn alot form the USAF though, I availed myself to all the training they would allow me to take and have to say that the experience gained has helped me a great deal in Civilian Life

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EvilEagle said:
I'm a little ****ed as a taxpayer. We are being very inefficient with our very expensively trained people.
There is definitely no shortage of pilots that just want to do the job. There's just no way (currently) to make it happen. If you are a young guy and a turd in the jet you can go cuddle up to some general as his aide or executive officer and he'll make sure that you get the assignment you want - so now when assignment time comes the warfighter dude that is awesome at his job and flies his ass off, instructs all the time, etc gets second choice to the guy who flies twice a month because he's too busy carrying the general's briefcase around. One small example.... I'll get off my soap container.
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I was enlisted in the USAF and around tactical fighter pilots as a controller. There was always a SOF up in the tower with us and I heard these same problems that Evil has mentioned decades ago. The AF seems to want to groom every pilot to move up in rank and want them all to be groomed and prepared to be a 4 star general at the top.

I have heard AF pilots, not just fighter pilots, suggest that there should be an avenue for advancement (promotions) for pilots without having to do all the nonflying assignments, IOW two chains for advancement with the corresponding rank for those that want to fly and stay in the cockpit, and those that want to suck, er, I mean advance up the "management" chain. I guess it never changes.

It's a bit like that too on the enlisted side but not to the level of officers, and especially pilots, and it's sad. Here you have a guy who has experience flying fighter jets, that this country has spent probably millions to train to be the best, and then AF leadership wants them to go fly a desk after they've flown fighters for 12-15 years and are at the top of their game. Never has made sense.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Do the little birds still have a mission? I was willing to be bait just to be in the weeds in that ship. :)
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Yeah with 160th but I'm not sure you'd call it a true scout mission like in Nam or anything. From what I've seen, it's used more for an assault / interdiction / attack role than recon. The Army believes it's future recon needs can be handled by drone / RC12 platforms. Sad.
 
weilke said:
Every AF pilot I have met in recent years has been flying a desk. There should be a better source of for administrators within the AF than the pilot ranks.
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Every branch has that problem. There's no money to hire just an administrator and keep a separate pilot when you can have both in one.

I'll give an example in the Army that I'm sure the other services use. In the Army, you have various "shops" like supply, admin, maint, operations, etc. You need officers that are in charge of running those shops. It's easier and costs less to have a pilot run those shops than to have a whole separate officer who specializes in those shops. Then there are also various liaison positions that need experienced pilots to coordinate with ground units such as FAC or CSAR. All of these positions really require a pilot. A pilot who should also be maintaining a minimum level of proficiency in their aircraft.

A lot of the griping isn't even about the additional staff duties and non operational positions but just an overall reduction in flying hours. In the crash below, one of the pilots had only 2.8 hrs NVG in the preceding 90 days, another had no NVG hrs in the preceding 90 days. Can't be proficient in pilot duties without the tools to get it done. The Marine fighter side is no better with pilots getting 4 hrs a month and cannibalizing F-18s for parts.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/sto...fore-deadly-helicopter-crash-hawaii/79486936/
 
EvilEagle said:
A lot of guys talk to me about getting out and making that decision. I tell them all that we need good people everywhere. It's totally true; all the good guys can't go to the ANG or AD will be screwed which is bad for all of us. I'm glad many of my friends stayed on AD; I hope some of them get to make an impact. It sucks to see great people being overlooked. Big blue definitely has to rethink what keeps people on AD. Money alone isn't going to keep the right people.
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Could it be the mission?

I mean it's got to get old working indirectly to bankrupt your neighbors, kill folks you have no personal beef with, all to help special interests. Ain't like you're fending off the Germans from invading.
 
EvilEagle said:
Agreed. Big blue has a problem that they only have designed one path for all pilots - it is very wide at the beginning of your career but about the time you get to major you are either on your way to becoming the chief of staff or you are getting farmed out to the training command, unimportant staff duties, etc. There's no mainstream path in the USAF to keep you in the cockpit most of your career. And they wonder why guys are getting out in droves...
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With the usual dose of implied cynicism, the regAF folk at the puzzle palace will tell you straight up that what you describe, what we all clamor for, the supposed archetypal "technician line pilot" DOES indeed exist: And they'll tell you it's called the ANG/AFRC.

There's some merit to that, but just a hint of it though. First of all, that's a part-time job, so in essence the AF is still resistant to pay you full-time to fly as a 35-40 year old person. RegAF has also inundated the Air Reserve Component with plenty o' qweep and careerist box checking antics, to include tapping people out at 20 years if all they wish to do is fly as AGRs. They have gone so far as to non-continue passed-over part-timer O-4s right at 20 years (versus 24 for the legal MSD) as recently as 2013. So that really dilutes our belief in the idea it's somehow a legitimate "life tactical expert" career avenue, even as a part-timer.
 
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James331 said:
Could it be the mission?

I mean it's got to get old working indirectly to bankrupt your neighbors, kill folks you have no personal beef with, all to help special interests. Ain't like you're fending off the Germans from invading.
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Actually, it's doing that mission that keeps people in. When war ends, the training funds go with it.

As far as the legitimacy of the mission you speak of, that's debatable but the common Sailor, Airman, Soldier and Marine don't care about the MIC. You don't get to pick and choose your wars. Complain to the "leaders" you elected that sent us there.
 
Velocity173 said:
Actually, it's doing that mission that keeps people in. When war ends, the training funds go with it.

As far as the legitimacy of the mission you speak of, that's debatable but the common Sailor, Airman, Soldier and Marine don't care about the MIC. You don't get to pick and choose your wars. Complain to the "leaders" you elected that sent us there.
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It is very much the servicemens issue as well, Nuremberg made that quite clear.
 
James331 said:
It is very much the servicemens issue as well, Nuremberg made that quite clear.
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Two completely different things. Based on your views, every war would be a crime. The last two wars were voted and approved by congress and we had NATO support as well. Just because the results weren't all that favorable doesn't make them illegal.

Unless they did something against the ROE, every service member in OIF / OEF can hold their heads high.
 
James331 said:
It is very much the servicemens issue as well, Nuremberg made that quite clear.
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That's about war crimes, not questionable wars. There is a rather substantial difference.

Every soldier has the obligation to refuse an order to participate in genocide. No soldier has the option to refuse to serve in a stupid war.
 
MAKG1 said:
That's about war crimes, not questionable wars. There is a rather substantial difference.

Every soldier has the obligation to refuse an order to participate in genocide. No soldier has the option to refuse to serve in a stupid war.
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And since WW2, which wars were not stupid in your mind?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Just seeking clarification to your post.
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It's only related to my post on the most superficial and highly tangental level. Whether every war is stupid or not does not affect the statement that no soldier has the right to refuse it based on stupidity.
 
Caramon13 said:
At 38 military is long gone as an option and I'm not interested in earning less than 1/4 of my current salary to live/work in squalor for a decade.
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A decade ??????
You might want to check your calendar. It's not 2003 anymore.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Who is GG?
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Global Girl aka Gulfrsteam Girl (before Gulfstream sued her to knock it off, as they didn't want to have their branding associated with an accessory to human sexual traffcking and rape of a minor).
 
Maaaannn, we fixin' to be locked!:(
 
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