Returning to the Airlines

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

En-Route
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Dec 31, 2011
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ARFlyer
The ones who attended Gastons will know that I left the airlines earlier this year for various reasons.

I have accepted position with another airline and will be starting training early next year. I love the job I'm at now but I also enjoyed airline flying. I just picked the wrong company. I've done my proper research and decided on a growing stable company. My current job just doesn't have the career progression that I desire for my ultimate goals.

Hopefully I'll be at the mainlines in a few years and an FO for @Greg Bockelman!
 
jordane93 said:
Which airline are you going to?
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I hate to say it, but no such thing as a stable regional. You're splitting hairs. About the only thing that's worthwhile is figuring out a domicile that you don't have to commute to, otherwise the rest of it is distinction without a difference. Sure, places like Mesa and the like are the bottom of the barrel right now, but this all fluctuates with feed contracts. The trick is to get in and get out of the regional as quickly as you can. You're not gonna do that doing regional laterals. Others have latched their wagon to the AA flow-thru agreement, but that's still in excess of 6 years for new hires.

Good luck to ya. BTW your last post was a nice euphemism for "I won't ever make 200K if I stick to this other job". It's ok man, it's POA, you can say you wanted back into the airlines for the elusive promise of 200K/yr. :D

Talking about not ever making 200K as an airline pilot, the DOT relented and just gave NAI the green light. The days of the US airline industry being insulated from flags of convenience are numbered. This is a huge globalization downgrade for those of us with more than 20 years of potential airline service left. This may even be an outright career change trigger point for some. Caveat emptor. Would you do any of this over if you knew the end game was de facto Spirit CA under their current pay and benefits contract, with a downward vector for further dilution in inflation adjusted pay and retirement? I know the answer for me, but that's a personal thing for each and every one of us. Food for thought. Good luck to us all.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I hate to say it, but no such thing as a stable regional. You're splitting hairs. About the only thing that's worthwhile is figuring out a domicile that you don't have to commute to, otherwise the rest of it is distinction without a difference. Sure, places like Mesa and the like are the bottom of the barrel right now, but this all fluctuates with feed contracts. The trick is to get in and get out of the regional as quickly as you can. You're not gonna do that doing regional laterals. Others have latched their wagon to the AA flow-thru agreement, but that's still in excess of 6 years for new hires.

Good luck to ya. BTW your last post was a nice euphemism for "I won't ever make 200K if I stick to this other job". It's ok man, it's POA, you can say you wanted back into the airlines for the elusive promise of 200K/yr. :D

Talking about not ever making 200K as an airline pilot, the DOT relented and just gave NAI the green light. The days of the US airline industry being insulated from flags of convenience are numbered. This is a huge globalization downgrade for those of us with more than 20 years of potential airline service left. This may even be an outright career change trigger point for some. Caveat emptor. Would you do any of this over if you knew the end game was de facto Spirit CA under their current pay and benefits contract, with a downward vector for further dilution in inflation adjusted pay and retirement? I know the answer for me, but that's a personal thing for each and every one of us. Food for thought. Good luck to us all.
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When I was picking regionals I said to myself, "if the music stops, would I be happy here for the rest of my career." The place I'm at is not perfect but I feel as though I made the best choice.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I hate to say it, but no such thing as a stable regional. You're splitting hairs. About the only thing that's worthwhile is figuring out a domicile that you don't have to commute to, otherwise the rest of it is distinction without a difference. Sure, places like Mesa and the like are the bottom of the barrel right now, but this all fluctuates with feed contracts. The trick is to get in and get out of the regional as quickly as you can. You're not gonna do that doing regional laterals. Others have latched their wagon to the AA flow-thru agreement, but that's still in excess of 6 years for new hires.

Good luck to ya. BTW your last post was a nice euphemism for "I won't ever make 200K if I stick to this other job". It's ok man, it's POA, you can say you wanted back into the airlines for the elusive promise of 200K/yr. :D

Talking about not ever making 200K as an airline pilot, the DOT relented and just gave NAI the green light. The days of the US airline industry being insulated from flags of convenience are numbered. This is a huge globalization downgrade for those of us with more than 20 years of potential airline service left. This may even be an outright career change trigger point for some. Caveat emptor. Would you do any of this over if you knew the end game was de facto Spirit CA under their current pay and benefits contract, with a downward vector for further dilution in inflation adjusted pay and retirement? I know the answer for me, but that's a personal thing for each and every one of us. Food for thought. Good luck to us all.
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Is the NAI decesion reversible? Does the license have to be renewed?
 
Cooter said:
Is the NAI decesion reversible? Does the license have to be renewed?
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Not really unless DOT or the EU finds violation of the Open Skies Agreement. My pilot forums are all screaming right now while my travel forums are all celebrating. US airlines can't handle both EU ULCCs and the ME3. Their product is too third world when compared to ME3 and to expensive when compared to ULCCs.

It was going to happen at some point. Hopefully this will force the US3 to update their product to be superior or we become like the EU.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Good luck to ya. BTW your last post was a nice euphemism for "I won't ever make 200K if I stick to this other job". It's ok man, it's POA, you can say you wanted back into the airlines for the elusive promise of 200K/yr. :D
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Well of course. Also this job only gives me about 100 hours of flight time a year. If I want to go corporate or go Fed I need more TT, especially Turbine PIC.
 
ARFlyer said:
Not really unless DOT or the EU finds violation of the Open Skies Agreement. My pilot forums are all screaming right now while my travel forums are all celebrating. US airlines can't handle both EU ULCCs and the ME3. Their product is too third world when compared to ME3 and to expensive when compared to ULCCs.

It was going to happen at some point. Hopefully this will force the US3 to update their product to be superior or we become like the EU.
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ARFlyer said:
Well of course. Also this job only gives me about 100 hours of flight time a year. If I want to go corporate or go Fed I need more TT, especially Turbine PIC.
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You mean ME3 or Asia ULCC.....

ARFlyer said:
It was going to happen at some point. Hopefully this will force the US3 to update their product to be superior or we become like the EU.
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You understand what this means for your dream of making 200K as an American airline pilot right?
 
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paflyer said:
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DC3, C46, or a super Connie, that's the kind of thing that would make me go airlines!

I'd have been a airline pilot of I was born decades and decades earlier.
 
James331 said:
DC3, C46, or a super Connie, that's the kind of thing that would make me go airlines!

I'd have been a airline pilot of I was born decades and decades earlier.
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Same here, but at the end of the day I would still be making someone else rich.
 
Zeldman said:
Same here, but at the end of the day I would still be making someone else rich.
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Indeed, but there is also risk, working for a [who ever] you don't have the risk, less reward too, it's really coming down to a QOL and what you're looking for.

I always have had my own side gigs, under my own marquee, but I do enjoy someone else taking the big risks, if the plane I'm flying had a major MX issue, it's the company writing six figure checks not me, I get paid the same.

For some stuff I like being a employee, for others I like being the owner.

Calculated outcomes.

What do you need for your target QOL, minimize risk to get there

For me it's just into the six figures, above that, I'd just have more money in the bank, and you can't take that chit with you into the next life :)
 
jordane93 said:
When I was picking regionals I said to myself, "if the music stops, would I be happy here for the rest of my career." The place I'm at is not perfect but I feel as though I made the best choice.
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Nah... you chose you're regional for the money and the advancement to mainline Delta with a boost from your Dad.
Absolutelty nothing wrong with that... all is good and I would do the exact same thing ... but we should call it like it is.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I hate to say it, but no such thing as a stable regional.
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Judging by the overall history of airlines, I'd amend that to say there's no such thing as a stable airline. Just sayin'. Plenty of real big ones are real dead and gone, and there will be more that repeat that historical pattern.
 
Kritchlow said:
Nah... you chose you're regional for the money and the advancement to mainline Delta with a boost from your Dad.
Absolutelty nothing wrong with that... all is good and I would do the exact same thing ... but we should call it like it is.
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It just so happened that those perks are avaialable too. But like I said in my other post, if I had to stick it out here for the rest of my career, I'd be able to do it.
 
jordane93 said:
It just so happened that those perks are avaialable too. But like I said in my other post, if I had to stick it out here for the rest of my career, I'd be able to do it.
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It wasn't that long ago you wouldn't have been able to get hired at Delta if your Dad was still active there. Changed in the 90s, so take advantage of it and get over there as soon as it's feasible. Regionals will possibly shrink to a smaller but no one really knows. What is set up today could completely change in 6 months. I've seen it too many times. At one time Delta even owned my old airline, ASA, and Comair. Then they shut Comair down and sold ASA to SkyWest Inc saying they didn't want to own any Regional. Then a few years ago they basically force your airline to take cuts and now you have a flow to Delta, and I think they own your airline don't they? See how it changes?
 
Cooter said:
Is the NAI decesion reversible? Does the license have to be renewed?
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Anything is reversible. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

IF a Trump administration opened up domestic air travel to foreign operators, it would be against a large part of Trump's campaign platform. The GOP would implode.

And the Union loving DNC isn't going to throw cabotage out.

US Carriers may suffer some in the long range overseas markets, but I wouldn't worry too much about job loss. I'd worry more about automation induced job loss than sweat shop pilots.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Anything is reversible. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

IF a Trump administration opened up domestic air travel to foreign operators, it would be against a large part of Trump's campaign platform. The GOP would implode.

And the Union loving DNC isn't going to throw cabotage out.

US Carriers may suffer some in the long range overseas markets, but I wouldn't worry too much about job loss. I'd worry more about automation induced job loss than sweat shop pilots.
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That's what I'm hoping. I haven't followed it closely but I've started reading around trying to see how much weight it should carry in making a career decision. You can't predict with certainty how any of these things will play out but since this has a precedent in the maritime world, it has me a little more worried. Oh well, even if it will pay less in the future flying is still better than sitting at a desk. To me at least.
 
kayoh190 said:
Be careful - life has a way of moving the goalposts on you. Usually the shift involves women. ;)
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That's for sure! We had a guy in our class resign after he finished OE due to personal issues with his fiancé.
 
Cooter said:
That's what I'm hoping. I haven't followed it closely but I've started reading around trying to see how much weight it should carry in making a career decision. You can't predict with certainty how any of these things will play out but since this has a precedent in the maritime world, it has me a little more worried. Oh well, even if it will pay less in the future flying is still better than sitting at a desk. To me at least.
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to me at least also ! it sure beats the heck out of bloodying your knuckles on engine blocks
 
It seems to me that trying to figure out the future on a 30+ year horizon is foolish in *any* industry, let alone the airlines. Enjoy the job, save some money, and have a plan B in your back pocket. I think this is just as valid if you're working for Google as it is being a pilot for Delta.
 
mscard88 said:
It wasn't that long ago you wouldn't have been able to get hired at Delta if your Dad was still active there. Changed in the 90s, so take advantage of it and get over there as soon as it's feasible. Regionals will possibly shrink to a smaller but no one really knows. What is set up today could completely change in 6 months. I've seen it too many times. At one time Delta even owned my old airline, ASA, and Comair. Then they shut Comair down and sold ASA to SkyWest Inc saying they didn't want to own any Regional. Then a few years ago they basically force your airline to take cuts and now you have a flow to Delta, and I think they own your airline don't they? See how it changes?
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Exactly. A few years ago, know one would dare go to my airline. Come now, it's one of the top places to be. Same thing with Delta. No one would have guessed that DL would be the top legacy. The guaranteed interview, money, bases, equipment, etc can go away anytime.
 
kayoh190 said:
Be careful - life has a way of moving the goalposts on you. Usually the shift involves women. ;)
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Amen. When I got to 1000 hours Helicopter PIC the new magic mark became 1500 and 100 turbine, when I got to 1500 the new goalpost became 2000 and 500 turbine.... :mad: with my luck by the time I finish IOE with the airlines upgrade will go from 2 years to 12 ! :eek: :confused: o_O :D
 
kayoh190 said:
It seems to me that trying to figure out the future on a 30+ year horizon is foolish in *any* industry, let alone the airlines. Enjoy the job, save some money, and have a plan B in your back pocket. I think this is just as valid if you're working for Google as it is being a pilot for Delta.
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This. And it isn't just the industry or the job that will change in 30+ years, your feelings about the job and the direction you want to take may change too,
 
jordane93 said:
Exactly. A few years ago, know one would dare go to my airline. Come now, it's one of the top places to be. Same thing with Delta. No one would have guessed that DL would be the top legacy. The guaranteed interview, money, bases, equipment, etc can go away anytime.
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I wouldn't say 'no one'.

I called it at least 10 years ago as a brand new private pilot that DAL would come out on top. But, compared to the other majors at the time, it seemed fairly obvious.
 
jordane's airline used to be called Pinnacle, and they were in deep kimche and about to close up, go out of business. Delta steps in and forces cuts at Pinnacle, and basically takes over management of Pinnacle. Then they change the name and I think Delta either owns them now or at least manages it.
 
mscard88 said:
jordane's airline used to be called Pinnacle, and they were in deep kimche and about to close up, go out of business. Delta steps in and forces cuts at Pinnacle, and basically takes over management of Pinnacle. Then they change the name and I think Delta either owns them now or at least manages it.
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We are a wholly owned subsidiary.
 
mscard88 said:
jordane's airline used to be called Pinnacle, and they were in deep kimche and about to close up, go out of business. Delta steps in and forces cuts at Pinnacle, and basically takes over management of Pinnacle. Then they change the name and I think Delta either owns them now or at least manages it.
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Not quite that simple. What is now Endeavor was more than just Pinnacle and how it all came under DAL involved the NWA merger.
 
mscard88 said:
jordane's airline used to be called Pinnacle, and they were in deep kimche and about to close up, go out of business. Delta steps in and forces cuts at Pinnacle, and basically takes over management of Pinnacle. Then they change the name and I think Delta either owns them now or at least manages it.
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My understanding was that Delta twisted Pinnacle's arm to buy Mesaba and then when Pinnacle went bankrupt as a result, Delta stepped in and played savior.
 
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