not thinking about a tesla or a mach-e

GeorgeC said:
It automatically preconditions the battery.

The drive back was worse. The OAT was 15F, so range took a hit and charging was limited to around 30kW. A 30-45 minute charge over lunch is one thing, but if winter driving means two 1-hour charge stops, I'll take a gas car.
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That makes it sound like it *doesn't* precondition the battery.

"Preconditioning" can mean the cabin (somewhat akin to a gas car with remote start) so there is some confusion on the term. Tesla, a while ago, started preconditioning the battery if the navigation has you going through a fast charger. This heats the battery up so that it charges as quickly as possible. The other night, at maybe 30ºF OAT, I got excellent charging rates and after driving + charging + driving again the battery was warm enough that I had full regenerative braking for the first time since late October.
 
Larry in TN said:
I went to the Kia [site] and played around with configurations. I was surprised that the heat pump was optional. Clearly superior in an EV. Resistance heating required far too much power.
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It might have been a luser error thing on my part; the climate control system has a "heat" toggle. In retrospect, I wonder if this is specific to the resistive heater*. Since most of our driving is in town, I'd gotten into the habit of turning it on. For a longer road trip where the battery has a chance to warm up, maybe the heat pump would have done the job.

* UI fail the first: things should be labeled for what they are. If it's a resistive heater, make the icon a coil or something. Though, to be fair, it took me some googling to figure out the battery heater icon.

* UI fail the second: Another shortcoming of the "power" gauge. If it a) had units, b) actually reflected the power consumed by heater/ac and not just the motor, I would have been able to figure it out. The judges also would have accepted a stacked bar chart showing the percentages going to various systems.

flyingcheesehead said:
That makes it sound like it *doesn't* precondition the battery.
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Could it be that the battery heater is only marginally effective when the battery is cold soaked at 15F? There is an icon on the dash for the battery heater and it was illuminated.
 
GeorgeC said:
It might have been a luser error thing on my part; the climate control system has a "heat" toggle. In retrospect, I wonder if this is specific to the resistive heater*. Since most of our driving is in town, I'd gotten into the habit of turning it on. For a longer road trip where the battery has a chance to warm up, maybe the heat pump would have done the job.
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I asked Gemini how to tell if you have a heat pump:

-----------------------------
To determine if a **Kia Niro EV Wind** is equipped with a heat pump, you should look for specific interior features or mechanical components under the hood. In the U.S. market, the heat pump is not standard on the Wind trim; it is only included if the vehicle was ordered with the **Preserve Package** (sometimes called the Cold Weather or Winter Package).

### 1. Check for Interior Clues

The easiest way to identify a heat pump on a **2023–2025 Niro EV Wind** is to check for the other features bundled in the [Wind Preserve Package](https://www.bridgewaterkia.com/manufacturer-research/2025-kia-niro-ev-overview/). If your Wind trim has the following, it almost certainly has a heat pump:

* **Heated Steering Wheel:** Look for the steering wheel heater button on the center console.
* **Heated Rear Seats:** Check for heater switches on the rear door panels or the back of the center console.

### 2. Inspect Under the Hood

If you want physical confirmation, you can look for the heat pump hardware in the motor compartment:

* **Location:** When standing in front of the car looking at the motor, look to the **left rear** area (passenger side).
* **Visual Marker:** A heat pump system typically features a [black plastic cover](https://www.reddit.com/r/KiaNiroEV/comments/1mrt4z7/heat_pump_dealer_thinks_this_is_one_does_anyone/) or an additional network of aluminum refrigerant pipes and hoses that are absent in the standard resistive heater version. If that area is relatively empty or "missing" a bulky component with pipes, the car likely uses a standard "toaster" (resistive) heater.

### 3. Verify the Window Sticker or VIN

* **Window Sticker:** Search for "Preserve Package" or "Heat Pump System" under the Options/Additional Equipment section of the original [window sticker](https://www.autotrader.com/comparisons/2023-kia-niro-ev-choosing-the-right-trim).
* **VIN Search:** You can use a VIN decoder or contact a Kia dealership service department. They can pull the build sheet for your specific VIN to confirm if the heat pump was installed at the factory.

---
 
Stuff I’ve discovered driving my not a Tesla/Ford electric car:
- Cold weather was brutal, dropping me from 3.5 mi/KwHr to 2.1. I don’t charge at home so that was an unpleasant change in range.
- Electrify America seems to be the default for many non-Tesla drivers, which means the others dcfc stations tend to have open stalls when EA is full. As @EdFred and I have discussed, Chicago drivers are jerks, and there is no queuing system meaning it’s a free for all. That happened to me while waiting for an EA charger to open, others jumped the queue, I went down the road one exit and lucked into an open, free, dcfc.
- Extreme cold weather knocks out chargers too. The 15f day a bit ago had EA advertising three of four online, when it was really one working.
- The assortment of dcfc companies, apps, etc just sucks. I don’t want another app on my phone with another account to fuel up my car but every system seems to be proprietary.
- I should know better, but even though car dealers advertise paid charging they still lock their damn gates on a Sunday.
- On cold days, the arrival state of charge is higher than your departure state. E.g. park with 5% and after a football game, depart with 2%.
- Due to all of the above, haven’t yet encountered limp mode, but did arrive at a charger with 1% and 2 miles range. Said dcfc has 2 of 4 stalls inop due to half assed plowing, one inop because of bespoke software.:mad2:
 
masloki said:
Stuff I’ve discovered driving my not a Tesla/Ford electric car:
- Cold weather was brutal, dropping me from 3.5 mi/KwHr to 2.1. I don’t charge at home so that was an unpleasant change in range.
- Electrify America seems to be the default for many non-Tesla drivers, which means the others dcfc stations tend to have open stalls when EA is full. As @EdFred and I have discussed, Chicago drivers are jerks, and there is no queuing system meaning it’s a free for all. That happened to me while waiting for an EA charger to open, others jumped the queue, I went down the road one exit and lucked into an open, free, dcfc.
- Extreme cold weather knocks out chargers too. The 15f day a bit ago had EA advertising three of four online, when it was really one working.
- The assortment of dcfc companies, apps, etc just sucks. I don’t want another app on my phone with another account to fuel up my car but every system seems to be proprietary.
- I should know better, but even though car dealers advertise paid charging they still lock their damn gates on a Sunday.
- On cold days, the arrival state of charge is higher than your departure state. E.g. park with 5% and after a football game, depart with 2%.
- Due to all of the above, haven’t yet encountered limp mode, but did arrive at a charger with 1% and 2 miles range. Said dcfc has 2 of 4 stalls inop due to half assed plowing, one inop because of bespoke software.:mad2:
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This stuff is why others gaining access to the Supercharger network was so important, and such a game changer. The third party systems leave a lot to be desired - Frequently stalls are out of order and there's no way to tell in advance, payment can be a PITA, they're often in places with no amenities which leaves you spending even more time stopping for food/bathroom breaks, etc...

In the good news column, Kwik Trip/Kwik Star appears to be buying into EVs now, opening Kwik Charge stations along major routes in the states they serve (mainly WI/IA/MN, some IL and Dakotas). One very near to me along I-41 northwest of Milwaukee was just installed this week, 4 cabinets with what appeared to be one NACS and one CCS plug each with long cords.
 
I had an electric BMW for a loaner while my 5 series was in the shop recently. It was pretty cool. Went like stink. But it had fake piped in engine noise that would be an absolute deal killer for me if it couldn't be turned off.
 
Groundpounder said:
I had an electric BMW for a loaner while my 5 series was in the shop recently. It was pretty cool. Went like stink. But it had fake piped in engine noise that would be an absolute deal killer for me if it couldn't be turned off.
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Concur. It fits like a fish on a bicycle and can be turned off.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
In the good news column, Kwik Trip/Kwik Star appears to be buying into EVs now, opening Kwik Charge stations along major routes in the states they serve (mainly WI/IA/MN, some IL and Dakotas). One very near to me along I-41 northwest of Milwaukee was just installed this week, 4 cabinets with what appeared to be one NACS and one CCS plug each with long cords.
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Tesla has their, relatively new, Supercharger for Business program which allows businesses to install Supercharger sites with their own branding on them. Tesla maintains the chargers for them. They install the posts with the Magic Dock which has an integrated CCS or NACS plug on every cable. BP Pulse and Suncoast Charging are two big takers in the US. Also the EG Group in the UK and Europe.

I quickly tried a BP Pulse CCS station at my local Thornton's to verify that my ECU upgrade was working. It wasn't the Tesla hardware, though. It worked just fine, but the process was, of course, more complex. Can't beat the convenience of plug and go at Superchargers. The hardware had a card reader, though, so it was similar to a gas pump. An app might have gotten me a lower rate but I only charged for two or three minutes to verify my new ECU worked.

Groundpounder said:
But it had fake piped in engine noise that would be an absolute deal killer for me if it couldn't be turned off.
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I don't get that at all. I guess some people like it? Be what you are, not what you think your customers want you to be.
 
GeorgeC said:
* UI fail the second: Another shortcoming of the "power" gauge. If it a) had units, b) actually reflected the power consumed by heater/ac and not just the motor, I would have been able to figure it out. The judges also would have accepted a stacked bar chart showing the percentages going to various systems.
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Put the right-hand display (the "MFD") in split-screen mode, then swipe up/down to get to the "Electricity Use" pane.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
This stuff is why others gaining access to the Supercharger network was so important, and such a game changer. The third party systems leave a lot to be desired - Frequently stalls are out of order and there's no way to tell in advance, payment can be a PITA, they're often in places with no amenities which leaves you spending even more time stopping for food/bathroom breaks, etc...
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I was hoping to leverage the Supercharger network, but apparently you need an account or an app or some other source of friction. Hard pass. At least with EA or AppleGreen you can just tap a card.

ABRP, the EA app, and PlugShare seem reasonable and not very crippled.

asicer said:
Put the right-hand display (the "MFD") in split-screen mode, then swipe up/down to get to the "Electricity Use" pane.
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Thanks, I'll give that a try.

edited to add: No joy.

edited to add: Yes! It's there, just buried elsewhere.
 
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GeorgeC said:
I was hoping to leverage the Supercharger network, but apparently you need an account or an app or some other source of friction. Hard pass.
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It took me 4 tries to get my car setup. I had to add my card to my Shell Recharge account (again) and that was through my car’s app. That unlocked plug and charge capability, no Tesla app or credit card to tap. Mind you, it failed mysteriously each time and I only figured it out having followed other attempts on ye olde reddits. Oh yeah, and the 0.2 amu adapter which is a bargain, I suppose.
 
GeorgeC said:
I was hoping to leverage the Supercharger network, but apparently you need an account or an app or some other source of friction. Hard pass.
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Well, you kinda have to tell it who you are and what charger you're at. If you have a Tesla or any of the newer vehicles with built-in NACS, you just plug in and the car does that all for you. If you just have an adapter, yes, you have to set up the Tesla app with a payment method. While that does put it back in the realm of being as bad as the rest, it's certainly not worse... And there are WAY more Tesla plugs out there than anyone else's.
 
The battery heater draws about 5kW.
 
GeorgeC said:
The battery heater draws about 5kW.
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That's interesting. Is that for cars with the Heat Pump system?

I did some searches for the Tesla heat pump consumption. It showed 5-6kW only when the car is first started in extreme temperatures and said that it was similar to the older resistive heaters in that situation. It showed moderate preconditioning to be in the 2-3kW range, reaching higher values only in extreme temperature conditions. Maintenance, once everything is at temperature, is in the 0.7-1.1kW range.

I've only seen the +/- from planned on my car's on-screen Energy App. I didn't know the actual values.
 
I assumed that I could configure the car to not start charging until after, say, 10pm, to take advantage of lower utility rates. While there appears to be some sort of scheduled charging functionality, it's a one-shot, not a recurring thing. Lame.

I broke out ye olde kill-a-watt. Current measured at 14.6 amps: check. Power factor measured at 0.99: check. Should be good to go with a mechanical outlet timer.
 
GeorgeC said:
I assumed that I could configure the car to not start charging until after, say, 10pm, to take advantage of lower utility rates. While there appears to be some sort of scheduled charging functionality, it's a one-shot, not a recurring thing. Lame.

I broke out ye olde kill-a-watt. Current measured at 14.6 amps: check. Power factor measured at 0.99: check. Should be good to go with a mechanical outlet timer.
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Can't you set the schedule in the Kia app? Under Features -> Schedules -> Charge Schedule
 
I don't have any experience with Kia's, but did a Gemini search for your issue. These are the instructions I found. It said that it would stick until you changed it.


---------------------------------------
You can set your Kia Niro to charge during off-peak hours using either the in-car infotainment system or the Kia Access smartphone app.

1. Using the In-Car Infotainment System
This is often the most reliable way to ensure the car's internal clock and the schedule are in sync.

Navigate to the EV Menu: On your home screen, tap the EV icon.

Access Charging Settings: Tap Scheduled Charging and Climate (or Charge Management on some models).

Set Off-Peak Times: Tap the Settings (gear) icon next to Scheduled Charging.

Define Your Schedule: * Enter the Start Time and End Time for your utility's off-peak rates.

Crucial Step: Select "Charge ONLY during off-peak" if you want to strictly stick to those hours. If you select "Prioritize off-peak," the car may start charging early to ensure the battery is full by your next departure time.

2. Using the Kia Access App
If your Niro is equipped with Kia Connect, you can manage this remotely.

Open the App: Go to the Dashboard tab.

Find Schedules: Scroll down to Convenience and select Schedules.

Edit Charge Schedule: Tap on Charge Schedule to enter your preferred off-peak times.

Save and Send: After entering the times, tap Save or Send to Car to sync the settings with your vehicle.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
Can't you set the schedule in the Kia app? Under Features -> Schedules -> Charge Schedule
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Funny, that icon was grayed out, so I never clicked it. Turns out, if you click it anyway, it works... :mad2:
#uxwarcrimes

Larry in TN said:
I don't have any experience with Kia's, but did a Gemini search for your issue. These are the instructions I found. It said that it would stick until you changed it.
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TYFGTFM. Have you considered a sexy Clippy costume for Halloween? ;)
 
Ah yes, the annoying thing: "off-peak hours are only used when a departure schedule is turned on". Lame. I guess I need to set a daily schedule just to placate it.
 
GeorgeC said:
TYFGTFM. Have you considered a sexy Clippy costume for Halloween? ;)
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No, not so much, but I do like the Clippy memes that show up from time to time.

I've really taken to using either Gemini or Perplexity.ai for things like this. So much easier than trying to search for the instructions myself.

It would have been really disappointing if that function wasn't available for you. It's a key money-saving features for EV owners with time-of-day metering.
 
Glad the scheduling was sorted, but a lot of EVSEs do scheduling also (My grizzl-e does) -- it's a blunt instrument, but my on-peak rates are triple so I've been paying close attention to that :D Belt and suspenders to make sure no expensive kilowatts slip through on-peak.
 
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