not thinking about a tesla or a mach-e

Nothing against EV’s. Just don’t fit my mission of at least two 3000 mile road trips each year.

Did a road trip "caravan" a while back. Brother's Tesla, me in out Mitsubishi Outlander Sport. Around 1100 miles round trip.
Total difference in time, I was home about ten minutes earlier.

Considering how many fuel stops I have to do the rest of the year. The ten minutes still works out in his favor.

Tim
 
Did a road trip "caravan" a while back. Brother's Tesla, me in out Mitsubishi Outlander Sport. Around 1100 miles round trip.
Total difference in time, I was home about ten minutes earlier.

Considering how many fuel stops I have to do the rest of the year. The ten minutes still works out in his favor.

Tim
Things must have changed. I usually average 700 miles in 10=12 hour day on these trips with 3 20 minute fuel stops. OH to CO or SC. Interstate or Open Road 90% of the way,
 
Nothing against EV’s. Just don’t fit my mission of at least two 3000 mile road trips each year.
On the contrary, most of the people who have a Tesla and an ICEV will take the Tesla on road trips. Charging isn't as inconvenient as most non-EV drivers think it is, and Autopilot/FSD makes the long stretches on the Interstate WAY more enjoyable.

I wouldn't mind having a nice, little electric daily driver. There is absolutely no way that it could be my only available vehicle. I tow stuff and drive too far, too often, to be able entirely abandon ICE trucks.
The F-150 hybrid seems to be VERY popular in your cohort.

The thing about my daily drivers, is they're usually high mileage cars that I pick up for a few thousand dollars, and drive them another 100k miles, or until I hit a deer and it gets totalled. So, I typically don't even look at electric vehicles for that purpose either.
Well, enough EVs are selling now that in another 5-10 years, maybe less, you can do that with an EV. In fact, depending on what your daily driver needs are, there's plenty of old Leafs out there for "a few thousand dollars".

So, battery chemistry question. @chemgeek @Cap'n Jack

At this point I've internalized charging anything with a lithium battery to 80% and trying not to run them below 20%.

New car says to charge to 100% once a month, because reasons. What are the reasons? Do they apply to all lithium chemistries?
Sounds to me like they're trying to do battery pack balancing and capacity calibration. Almost like they're not sure how well their cells will last.
Nothing wrong with periodically balancing the pack. If you don't, the weaker cells will get even weaker, faster, possibly causing an early module failure.
 
Things must have changed. I usually average 700 miles in 10=12 hour day on these trips with 3 20 minute fuel stops. OH to CO or SC. Interstate or Open Road 90% of the way,
Three twenty minute stops over 700 miles is very easy to handle in a modern EV and make that trip. Things have changed a lot in the past decade and a half.

Tim
 
Things must have changed. I usually average 700 miles in 10=12 hour day on these trips with 3 20 minute fuel stops. OH to CO or SC. Interstate or Open Road 90% of the way,
Using EVTripPlanner.com, I plugged in Xenia, OH to Topeka, KS in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, which is probably about your first day - 684 miles. It shows that as 10:35 driving time and 3 charging stops for a total of 1:08, so the "10 minutes behind" thing sounds about right.

Plugging a 712-mile trip into my Tesla from home near Milwaukee to Lexington, NE, it shows 7 stops, but some are as short as 9 minutes, and a total time of 13:50. That's longer for a few reasons - I have the standard range variant and it uses a different battery chemistry (LFP) that doesn't charge as fast, and of course I have to charge more times as well. I didn't bother spending the money for a long range car, because I have a long range airplane!
 
So, battery chemistry question. @chemgeek @Cap'n Jack

At this point I've internalized charging anything with a lithium battery to 80% and trying not to run them below 20%.

New car says to charge to 100% once a month, because reasons. What are the reasons? Do they apply to all lithium chemistries?
They probably want it charges to 100% to ensure all the cells have equal voltage to help the battery management system.
 
But no place that will work on EVs.
EVs in general require so little maintenance, expect many fewer shops over time. I actually think many rural areas that are serviced by just a couple of small shops, may end up losing almost all local maintenance options due to the lack of demand.

Tim
 
To be fair, they don't need much work. Brakes and tires can be done wherever. EVs go through brakes much slower and tires somewhat faster than ICEVs.

So far, I'm at 88,580 miles. My entire service history:
* 2x new cabin air filter
* Rotate tires
* Replace tires
* Bumper-to-bumper inspection just before warranty ran out to be sure I could get things replaced under warranty if they were needed - None found

Things that were caused by me and/or fate:
* New windshield after I managed to get two rock chips in one week
* One new tire early on when I ran over a screw on the freeway
* Reattached some plastic parts I knocked off
* Realigned the trunk lid after I tried to put too much stuff in it

No oil changes. No brake jobs. No lots-of-other-stuff. Four trips to the shop in 4+ years.
 
I make a 400-mile commute each way once a week. I like to stop after +/- 2.5 hours, so I choose to make two stops each way. I could do it in one stop (363-mile range, 2025 Tesla Model 3 Premium). At my first stop, I have lunch, and by the time I’m done eating, the car is charged. For the second stop, I get a cup of coffee, so I end up waiting about 10 minutes extra for the charge. That allows me to get to my destination, drive while there, and get back to my charge spot without additional charging sessions. It costs about $60 each way. When I did the trip once in my F150, it cost $110 each way in fuel.

Oh, and the Tesla with hardware version 4 and FSD 14.2.1, I literally do nothing but sit there. The current version of Full Self Driving is awesome!

{I figured if Brannigan @schmookeeg can get an EV, I can too}
 
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Ok, back as a mere child with major aspirations of being a world famous car racer, I had a couple slot cars. To make them go faster, I would put a drop of light machine oil on the electric motor.

So my question is.... will the same thing work for a full size modern EV.??
 
If it would, making it more efficient, wouldn't the manufacturers already done it?
Probably not. Those few drops of oil would eat into the companies profit margin.

Then again, putting X number of drops of oil into the electric motor every XX number of miles might be to much work for some of the ''I don't use oil anymore'' and/or ''I don't do maintenance anymore'' buyers.
 
1000 miles in, so far so good.

Not an EV thing, but the auto high beam feature is neat.

We'll do the Christmas pilgrimage to NY in the EV. At ~330mi, it will require one stop, which we would have done anyway.
 
We'll do the Christmas pilgrimage to NY in the EV. At ~330mi, it will require one stop, which we would have done anyway.
I was conservative and stopped a bit early to charge, which necessitated a second stop close to the destination. The return trip should be easier.

The dummy light turns on at about 30 miles of remaining range. I don't know at what point it goes into limp mode.

Early in the drive, the battery heater turned on. At some point later in the drive, an alert popped up informing me that performance may be affected by colder temperatures. In both cases, the car drove fine. On average, if my math is right, it seems to pull around 25kW.

* During the day on Monday, it was in the high 30s in NJ, and it took an hour to charge from 25% to 90% at 60kW.
* This morning in NY, it was only charging at 50kW, presumably because it was near freezing.
* One charger was listed as being available but was actually inop due to vandalism.
* There seems to be no means of orderly queueing when all chargers are occupied.
* Electrify America seems decent.
 
* During the day on Monday, it was in the high 30s in NJ, and it took an hour to charge from 25% to 90% at 60kW.
* This morning in NY, it was only charging at 50kW, presumably because it was near freezing.
What is the car's max charging rate? Does it precondition the battery when you're navigating to a fast charger and/or can you manually precondition?
 
I'm in the EV fanboi camp since we're making this yet another American "Red Team Blue Team! Opponents get murdered!" polarized situation -- but I haven't experienced reduced tire wear with our EVs. In fact my EVs gobble expensive tires, and lead times have been annoying. It's my least favorite part of them at the moment, but I understand there is a 15% range boost for running LRR tires.

Meanwhile my Subaru still doesn't know how to wear tires properly. We got like 100K on a set of Geolandars, and she's sat on the same dumb tires I bought the thing with in 2016. Nary a wear bar in sight.

Probably comparing two extremes within each camp. Still rankles. I want tires to be boring. :D
 
Meanwhile my Subaru still doesn't know how to wear tires properly. We got like 100K on a set of Geolandars, and she's sat on the same dumb tires I bought the thing with in 2016. Nary a wear bar in sight.
That's what you get when the motor is torque-less and drowns out the tire noise. ;)
 
85kW, if I recall correctly.

I believe the software is an E-GMP hand-me-down, so yes.
85 kW seems low. What is the vehicle? I routinely get around 215 from the 350 kW chargers at EA. I know temps can make a huge difference. Gotta admit, it's kind of annoying seeing a Chevy Bolt taking up the 350kW charger spots when they'd take the same time at the 150kW charger. Luckily I haven't needed to fast charge very often.
 
85 kW seems low. What is the vehicle? I routinely get around 215 from the 350 kW chargers at EA. I know temps can make a huge difference. Gotta admit, it's kind of annoying seeing a Chevy Bolt taking up the 350kW charger spots when they'd take the same time at the 150kW charger. Luckily I haven't needed to fast charge very often.
I think there is some confusion over the question that was asked. The battery capacity of my 2025 M3P is 82 kWh, while it charges at up to 250 kW.
 
I have a Model Y Long Range and have been very happy with it. The truth is I would never have an EV as my only car. But the is some legitimacy to wanting two or three types of propulsion. ( I have gas, diesel and EV, 7 cars all in) My summer plan is to build a stand alone solar grid that can produce/store 18kwh per day. This is about 25% of the model Ys battery capacity, or about 75 miles. This will result in some over production, but this is a test for my property in NH, that I'm hoping to be off grid.
 
What is the vehicle?
 
85 kW seems low. What is the vehicle? I routinely get around 215 from the 350 kW chargers at EA.II I know temps can make a huge difference. Gotta admit, it's kind of annoying seeing a Chevy Bolt taking up the 350kW charger spots when they'd take the same time at the 150kW charger. Luckily I haven't needed to fast charge very often.
I thought the same thing so I looked it up. He is correct that the max charge rate on the Niro is 85kW. Only matters on longer trips, of course, but I do wonder why it's so low.

I did another search for its charging curve and found that it'll charge at a peak of close to 85kW up to about 45% SoC. 45%-60% drops down around 60kW. 60%-80% is between 35kW and 45kW. That sounds consistent with what he reported. Not great for a road trip, but, if you only road trip occasionally, you can enjoy the savings on the cost of the car for your daily driving.

Lots of EV owners, like the Bolt drivers you've seen, don't understand the charging curve at all, exactly as you've observed. I guess there's no reason why they should understand it unless they've made the effort to learn more about their cars. It will take a while that level of understand to expand to a large percentage of the population.
 
I thought the same thing so I looked it up. He is correct that the max charge rate on the Niro is 85kW. Only matters on longer trips, of course, but I do wonder why it's so low.

I did another search for its charging curve and found that it'll charge at a peak of close to 85kW up to about 45% SoC. 45%-60% drops down around 60kW. 60%-80% is between 35kW and 45kW. That sounds consistent with what he reported. Not great for a road trip, but, if you only road trip occasionally, you can enjoy the savings on the cost of the car for your daily driving.

Lots of EV owners, like the Bolt drivers you've seen, don't understand the charging curve at all, exactly as you've observed. I guess there's no reason why they should understand it unless they've made the effort to learn more about their cars. It will take a while that level of understand to expand to a large percentage of the population.
Ah that's right, it's a Niro. I think a lot of times the people using the 'wrong' chargers are rentals and they have no idea. Ironically, the Niro is that car that got me down the rabbit hole of eventually getting the EV9. I still have a few gas-burners, although we've taken the EV on some fairly long trips without issue. Our biggest issue was putting too many miles on the car (25K in the first year!). I didn't realize how much we were driving the other cars, but I knew that we'd save a bundle with an EV. We have 8KW solar to feed it, and we've gone from 2-3x a week at the gas station to 1x every few weeks.
 
Does it precondition the battery when you're navigating to a fast charger and/or can you manually precondition?
It automatically preconditions the battery.

The drive back was worse. The OAT was 15F, so range took a hit and charging was limited to around 30kW. A 30-45 minute charge over lunch is one thing, but if winter driving means two 1-hour charge stops, I'll take a gas car.

The onboard nav system is a bit clunky. I'll probably use ABRP if I need to do another longer drive.
 
but if winter driving means two 1-hour charge stops, I'll take a gas car.
If an early Leaf is a runabout and a Lucid Air is a dreadnought, I'd say a NiroEV would probably be a frigate.
 
I'm wondering if rental car agencies will anticipate people using gas cars for long trips... will rental car agencies switch to EV (of some flavor)?

(yes, I realize that this is thread drift)
 
I'm wondering if rental car agencies will anticipate people using gas cars for long trips... will rental car agencies switch to EV (of some flavor)?

(yes, I realize that this is thread drift)

We had a number of trips from the Boston area to western MD in 2025. It was cheaper to rent two one way rentals of the right vehicle type then put the mileage on our car. e.g. It was better for me to take a minivan down and a econobox back. Western MD is a resort area and is always short of minivans, so I got a discount to bring them minivans, but they always have too many econoboxes so I got a discount to bring an econobox back to the Boston area.
Found the same thing when doing a U-Haul rental recently, they offered a discount to help them move equipment around.

Sometimes working with the companies can pay off.

Tim
 
The drive back was worse. The OAT was 15F, so range took a hit and charging was limited to around 30kW. A 30-45 minute charge over lunch is one thing, but if winter driving means two 1-hour charge stops, I'll take a gas car.
Ouch! That's painful. Doesn't sound like a very good road tripper. I suspect that a lot of the anti-EV folks think all EVs are like that on trips.

The onboard nav system is a bit clunky. I'll probably use ABRP if I need to do another longer drive.
That's too bad. It's so nice for it to all be integrated.

Neither issue affects your daily driving, though, which seems to be what this car was designed to do. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm wondering if rental car agencies will anticipate people using gas cars for long trips... will rental car agencies switch to EV (of some flavor)?
They tried, but they overdid it and their timing was horrific. Coming out of the pandemic, Hertz, and some others, bought large quantities of EV at pandemic peak prices.

Renting an EV is a good idea for someone who's already familiar with EVs and those who are actively trying to learn about them. It's a terrible idea for someone with no interest in EVs or who don't have any idea of how they work. They will not have a good experience. The companies also failed to have realistic EV policies regarding recharging, though that has gotten better.

Many businesses tried policies that required renting EVs, when traveling on company business, so that they could use it for credit toward their green initiative programs. This put their unprepared employees in EVs that they didn't know how to operate or charge. Meanwhile, the rental companies, having ordered too many EVs, were often in the position of having nothing but EVs remaining to rent at their locations, forcing renters, who had reserved a gasoline car, stuck renting an EV against their will.

As supply chains recovered, and the EV tech advanced, the large depreciation of those cars bought at pandemic high prices were producing large depreciation charges that the rental companies had to book each quarter resulting in large booked, but unrealized, losses. This lead them to cut their EV fleets to reduce their exposure to further depreciation.

Personally, I've only rented twice since owning an EV and both times I rented Model 3s. I used Turo both times because I wasn't renting from airport locations. In the future, I will continue to rent Model 3s whenever possible.
 
Ouch! That's painful. Doesn't sound like a very good road tripper. I suspect that a lot of the anti-EV folks think all EVs are like that on trips.
FWIW, this is a low end car and 65kWh is where Tesla was a decade ago, so expectations should be calibrated appropriately.

That's too bad. It's so nice for it to all be integrated.
The Tesla UI Just Works(tm). With this one, it took me a while to figure out that you're supposed to read stuff from the bottom up. Who does that? Oh right, the same bungholes who write AHEAD STOP BUS SCHOOL on roads...

It seems that some charge networks telemeter their availability, while others do not, so the car will happily lead you to chargers that are all in use. Some charge networks are also more transparent about their pricing than others.

Future trip planning should be easier now that I know which networks are decent and which to avoid.

Neither issue affects your daily driving, though, which seems to be what this car was designed to do. Nothing wrong with that.
Yeah. It is great for in town and out-and-back stuff that you can do on a single charge, and it will shine for low maintenance and relatively cheap charging rates, especially after we get whatever EV package our local utility offers.
 
FWIW, this is a low end car and 65kWh is where Tesla was a decade ago, so expectations should be calibrated appropriately.
No criticism from me. I appreciate hearing your experiences as I had no previous knowledge of the Niro. We need less expensive EVs so more people can learn about, and experience, them. I'd just like to see other car manufacturers do better with their software.

Is your Niro a Wind or a Wave?

From what you've said, I think your car has the heat pump and battery heater?
 
It's a Wind with the heat pump/heated steering wheel/heated rear seat options.
That's exactly why I asked! I went to the Kia sight and played around with configurations. I was surprised that the heat pump was optional. Clearly superior in an EV. Resistance heating required far too much power.
 
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