No Show Fee

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bdoss2006

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bdoss2006
Yall I need some advice. I had a lesson scheduled this past Saturday, and Friday morning I woke up sick with a stomach virus. I wound up in the ER the majority of Friday morning, and even a week later I am still not 100% better. Well as you might imagine, I was still really sick on Saturday, and slept pretty much all day, and didn’t think to call or text my instructor to cancel. I woke up approximately 3.5 hours after the lesson time, and immediately texted and apologized and told him what had happened. Well today I was looking at my bank account, and noticed a $215 charge I wasn’t expecting. I texted him about it, and he said it was a no show fee from Saturday. I don’t think that is fair considering I was sick. What’s yalls thoughts and what should I do?
 
is that documented in any of their paperwork? how many lessons have you had with this person?
 
eman1200 said:
is that documented in any of their paperwork? how many lessons have you had with this person?
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I got to looking and this is in the “flight operations manual”,

“Clients wishing to cancel an activity must notify the instructor 8 hours prior to the scheduled lesson or will be considered a no-show and subject to a cancellation fee”

I have done about 8-10 lessons and about the same amount of hours.
 
Racerx said:
Learn to text when you know youre not going to pass the IMSAFE checklist.

Instructor was there for the allotted time as scheduled.
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Well what about when you’re badly sick, and are asleep almost around the clock, and the last thing on your mind is a flight lesson?
 
bdoss2006 said:
I got to looking and this is in the “flight operations manual”,

“Clients wishing to cancel an activity must notify the instructor 8 hours prior to the scheduled lesson or will be considered a no-show and subject to a cancellation fee”

I have done about 8-10 lessons and about the same amount of hours.
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well, there ya go.
 
bdoss2006 said:
Well I just don’t understand how that’s fair as sick as I was. I could never do that to someone if the roles were reversed.
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Did you talk to them about it? Did you show proof of a medical issue? Maybe they’ll work with you.
 
bdoss2006 said:
Well I just don’t understand how that’s fair as sick as I was. I could never do that to someone if the roles were reversed.
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I see both sides. You could have texted Friday night, but chose to wait, probably hoping to fly. He was there, expecting to make money and you were a no-call, no-show. I've had that happen to me once for a photo shoot and I wasn't happy about it.

Maybe if you talk to the instructor and tell them you plan to continue your training and spend a lot of money with him, they'll have a change of heart.
 
bdoss2006 said:
Well what about when you’re badly sick, and are asleep almost around the clock, and the last thing on your mind is a flight lesson?
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Doesn’t matter. Part of growing up and being an adult is to accept responsibility. You knew you were sick at least 24 hours prior to your lesson and had time to get the message to your instructor. It sucks, but call it a $215 education fee. Accept the responsibility, learn from it, and move on.

You are the customer, and the instructor is the person you hired to perform a service. He fulfilled his part of the obligation, and by not informing the instructor that you wouldn’t be there prevented him from earning the money it takes for him to put food on his table. He could have filled that empty spot in the schedule if he had been notified.
 
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Look at it from his perspective. He could not book a student in the absentee slot without prior notice. When you felt ill enough to consider going to the ER for help, you knew that you would not be able to make the flying session. At that point, you should have notified the instructor. If you were in an MVA and admitted for trauma and not aware enough to make contact, sure, I would not bill you.

edit- obviously, I type too slow. LOL
 
The $215 might be a little steep, is that 1 hour rental plus instructor?

We enacted no show policies when I was instructing because no shows were getting out of hand. Nothing more aggravating than showing up to fly and the student not showing up. Took time out of my life, drove to the airport, had the plane ready, for nothing. All it would have taken is 10 seconds to send a text, saved everyone a lot of hassle.
 
TBH I personally would probably have texted the evening before and given him a heads up I may not come in Saturday. Then set an alarm to text before the scheduled lesson. It may be within 8 hours but I bet they’d let that pass. Incommunicado until after the lesson? Lesson learned, I’d say.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I see both sides. You could have texted Friday night, but chose to wait, probably hoping to fly. He was there, expecting to make money and you were a no-call, no-show. I've had that happen to me once for a photo shoot and I wasn't happy about it.

Maybe if you talk to the instructor and tell them you plan to continue your training and spend a lot of money with him, they'll have a change of heart.
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I certainly was not hoping to fly. I knew I couldn’t, but I felt so bad the thought never crossed my mind. My only thought was surviving. I was severely dehydrated at that point and honestly wasn’t in my right mind.
 
So you don't show, the instructor is there waiting for you, counting on the income for the flight, the school is counting on the income for the rental. Is that fair to them, when a simple call or text from you would have allowed them to schedule somebody else.

Pay it, and consider it another lesson.
 
My wife runs a practice and she has the rule about 24 hours notice. She hates charging that fee but it happens all the time and its really inconvenient.
It's in her paperwork but she tends to waive the first one if the person has a legit reason for not notifying her. Might call and ask if they can soften the blow but seeing this side of it and how often it happens, I'd suck it up and be early for your next lesson.
 
The no show fee is, like your ER bill, an expense related to your medical situation. You reserved an instructor, and a plane, and were unable to call and release it. That's not your fault, but it's also not the fault of, or the responsibility of, the CFI and the FBO to absorb that loss.

8 hours notice is actually pretty generous- locally 24 hours seems more common.

I hope your recovery proceeds well. Sounds nasty.



Dumber cancellation anecdote:
I saw an opening for an airplane at the local FBO about 2 hours from when I noticed the schedule opening. i.e. a same day reservation, solo, so no CFI involved.

I booked it, went to the FBO to get the keys, drove to the hangar and the plane isn't there. Come back to the desk and am told it's somewhere else - the dispatcher hadn't told me the plane had changed hangars. By this time, I won't have time to fly it (it was all spur of the momeny tight scheduling), so I tell her to just cancel it. Then she wants to charge me a late fee because I didn't get 24 hours notice. I asked her how I'd possibly give 24 hours notice for a reservation I made 2 hours ago. She has to go speak to someone else, then gives me this speech about cancelling. So that's where I draw the line at absolutely stupid policy adherence. I vote with my money and they haven't gotten much or any since then.
 
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After you become a pilot and later flying charter for people.... when they don't show up you will be spitting mad if there is no fee for a no call/no show.
 
It does seem pretty steep for the no-show charge, but that depends on how long the lesson was supposed to be and what their hourly rate is. You messed up and didn't notify them in advance, even when you knew it was bad enough to go to the ER. You "not thinking about anything but surviving" is a lesson learned, as you had a commitment to maintain and failed to do so. Instructor might cut you a small break on it, but remember this is how they put food on the table and if they just ate the opportunity cost every time someone cancelled without notice, they will probably have trouble paying the utility bills. Being a CFI isn't typically a profession that makes anyone rich, even when your schedule is full.
 
Look at it from the instructors point of view (already mentioned). He went to work today expecting a full 8 hour day and a paycheck for 8 hours. You not showing up, for whatever the reason means he doesn't get paid and didn't even get to take the time off, since he probably had another appointment after you.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My wife runs a practice and she has the rule about 24 hours notice. She hates charging that fee but it happens all the time and its really inconvenient.
It's in her paperwork but she tends to waive the first one if the person has a legit reason for not notifying her. Might call and ask if they can soften the blow but seeing this side of it and how often it happens, I'd suck it up and be early for your next lesson.
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I do the same. We look at each case individually and will waive the fee if warranted.
 
A $215 no-show fee is INSANE. That's not to compensate the instructor for his time because he makes nothing remotely closer to that; it's purely punitive. And if that's not documented somewhere, I would politely ask them to reduce it. If they refuse I would dispute it with my bank. And I'd find a new flight school.

No-show fees are a reasonable thing, when applied reasonably. Many professionals charge them, but they use their professional judgment as to when and how much.

This would all be assuming that we're talking about the first no-show for a lesson.
 
I'm sorry, but your sickness doesn't mean the instructor didn't waste his time and shouldn't be compensated for it. Despite what a lot of people seem to think, being "sick" isn't a get out of jail free card for everything. It was on YOU to tell him you're sick; he has no way of knowing that independently. Because you didn't tell him, he showed up (and didn't have time to otherwise fill that slot). So he would be out both the $$ and his time but for the no-show fee.

Honestly, do you think it's fair to jam him with that because you didn't feel good enough to send a text message? You think he should bear that burden/expense instead of you?

How much time while you were "sick" did you spend looking at FB, Instrgram or otherwise just doom scrolling on your phone?
 
Lindberg said:
A $215 no-show fee is INSANE. That's not to compensate the instructor for his time because he makes nothing remotely closer to that; it's purely punitive. And if that's not documented somewhere, I would politely ask them to reduce it. If they refuse I would dispute it with my bank. And I'd find a new flight school.

No-show fees are a reasonable thing, when applied reasonably. Many professionals charge them, but they use their professional judgment as to when and how much.

This would all be assuming that we're talking about the first no-show for a lesson.
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Perhaps it is to be punitive, or perhaps it is not only compensating for the instructor but the lost rental on the aircraft as well.
 
bradg33 said:
How much time while you were "sick" did you spend looking at FB, Instrgram or otherwise just doom scrolling on your phone?
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I don't understand trying to suggest the OP should have done anything differently.

Their brain is already scrambled because they're trying to work out what "should" have happened, and what is fair, and then this comment basically says the same thing- they should have done XYZ.

The reality is, person was sick, didn't cancel, now has to pay a cancellation fee. Life goes on. It's not a morality play.
 
bdoss2006 said:
Well I just don’t understand how that’s fair as sick as I was. I could never do that to someone if the roles were reversed.
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Welcome to life. Is it fair the instructor you booked wouldn’t be paid for his time and couldn’t just pick up a different student at the last minute?

Same for the plane that others couldn’t rent and couldn’t generate income because you failed to cancel in a timely manner.
 
Remember the law of unintended effects. Around these parts they softened the cancellation fees when people were showing up with a "mild" case of Covid to avoid the charges. It was pretty hard on the CFI's. Usually there is one free pass.
 
bentmettle said:
I don't understand trying to suggest the OP should have done anything differently.

Their brain is already scrambled because they're trying to work out what "should" have happened, and what is fair, and then this comment basically says the same thing- they should have done XYZ.

The reality is, person was sick, didn't cancel, now has to pay a cancellation fee. Life goes on. It's not a morality play.
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My point was the he's claiming he just didn't have the capacity to send a text, like he was comatose; I'm guessing that's just an excuse for forgetting and that he was likely capable of playing on his phone and just didn't bother to text his instructor. Rather than just owning it like you suggest, he's trying to pretend like it was just physically impossible for him to have let his instructor know he wasn't going to make it.

He needs to own the mistake and move on, not make excuses for why he was too sick to send a single text message. The whole victim mentality just irritates me.
 
Pretty simple. He could have scheduled another student but held the spot for you as agreed. You own it.
 
I'm all of my years doing aviation photography, I've only had two people that were no-call, no-shows. One guy told me he got up, saw it was foggy, and went back to bed. He wanted to reschedule, but I told him it wasn't going to happen. He made a decision to stay home and not to call me. We were standing around at the airport waiting and it wasn't even foggy!

I also had a photo pilot not show up. She told me she woke up, decided it was too early to get up and went back to sleep! Again, made a decision not to show and not call me. I missed out on a photoshoot of two J2 Cubs. I'll never work with her again and go out of my way to tell the story when someone asks if I know her.

Neither of them were in the ER and both chose not to show up without calling me. Every situation is different.
 
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If you had booked a ticket to Paris on Air France and a hotel room would also be upset you still had to pay?
 
bradg33 said:
My point was the he's claiming he just didn't have the capacity to send a text, like he was comatose; I'm guessing that's just an excuse for forgetting and that he was likely capable of playing on his phone and just didn't bother to text his instructor. Rather than just owning it like you suggest, he's trying to pretend like it was just physically impossible for him to have let his instructor know he wasn't going to make it.

He needs to own the mistake and move on, not make excuses for why he was too sick to send a single text message. The whole victim mentality just irritates me.
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Do not try to say how sick I was or how I felt. It wasn’t an “excuse” for forgetting, and you have absolutely no business making that accusation.
 
Lindberg said:
A $215 no-show fee is INSANE. That's not to compensate the instructor for his time because he makes nothing remotely closer to that; it's purely punitive. And if that's not documented somewhere, I would politely ask them to reduce it. If they refuse I would dispute it with my bank. And I'd find a new flight school.

No-show fees are a reasonable thing, when applied reasonably. Many professionals charge them, but they use their professional judgment as to when and how much.

This would all be assuming that we're talking about the first no-show for a lesson.
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It seems steep, but I’m not sure that $215 is insane. Part of this is the sticker shock we’re all feeling on *everything* due to inflation. I feel young still and still remember paying $65/hr for planes that are renting for nearly three times that today.

That might be $70/hr for the instructor and $75 for the plane not being used. I tend to let some client mistakes slip, because I tell people that I don’t want them to feel penalized for good ADM, but if this is a bigger school, they’ve probably dealt with this enough times that they’d rather bill it and the lesson be learned and if they lose a student over it, they’ll fill the spot with someone else.

The OP mentioned being severely dehydrated… was that due to being sick, or did the dehydration cause the sickness? Seems a little odd. I learned pretty early from my parents to work hard not to get dehydrated when sick.
 
Ask them if they want the $215 to be the last money they ever see from you. You might consider it a cheap price to learn their true nature.

I wonder if any airline(s) your school may be affiliated with (Part 141?) are aware or might be impacted if it were publicized that they are financially penalizing pilot trainees from staying out of the cockpit when they are medically infirm.
 
DJTorrente said:
Ask them if they want the $215 to be the last money they ever see from you. You might consider it a cheap price to learn their true nature.

I wonder if any airline(s) your school may be affiliated with (Part 141?) are aware or might be impacted if it were publicized that they are financially penalizing pilot trainees from staying out of the cockpit when they are medically infirm.
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You might want to read the thread a little closer. He wasn't penalized for being sick, he was penalized because he didn't bother notifying them and just no showed. The OP is in the wrong here, sorry.
 
RyanShort1 said:
It seems steep, but I’m not sure that $215 is insane. Part of this is the sticker shock we’re all feeling on *everything* due to inflation. I feel young still and still remember paying $65/hr for planes that are renting for nearly three times that today.

That might be $70/hr for the instructor and $75 for the plane not being used. I tend to let some client mistakes slip, because I tell people that I don’t want them to feel penalized for good ADM, but if this is a bigger school, they’ve probably dealt with this enough times that they’d rather bill it and the lesson be learned and if they lose a student over it, they’ll fill the spot with someone else.

The OP mentioned being severely dehydrated… was that due to being sick, or did the dehydration cause the sickness? Seems a little odd. I learned pretty early from my parents to work hard not to get dehydrated when sick.
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Yes I was dehydrated due to having a STOMACH VIRUS!!! No matter how hard you work, It’s kinda hard to not get dehydrated when you are vomiting and having diarrhea and can’t keep anything down…
 
midwestpa24 said:
You might want to read the thread a little closer. He wasn't penalized for being sick, he was penalized because he didn't bother notifying them and just no showed. The OP is in the wrong here, sorry.
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It’s not that I “didn’t bother” notifying them. I didn’t feel like it. It doesn’t matter anyway, me and the instructor worked it out, and he was very polite about it. It’s water under the bridge.
 
bdoss2006 said:
I was still really sick on Saturday, and slept pretty much all day, and didn’t think to call or text my instructor to cancel.
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eman1200 said:
Did you talk to them about it? Did you show proof of a medical issue? Maybe they’ll work with you.
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bdoss2006 said:
I certainly was not hoping to fly. I knew I couldn’t, but I felt so bad the thought never crossed my mind. My only thought was surviving. I was severely dehydrated at that point and honestly wasn’t in my right mind.
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So... this is where strict adherence to policy is a dumb thing to do. Everyone has had a moment where they're sick enough not to think it through.

Adding insult to injury is not the right way to go. Next time just show up with some nasty bug, don't tell him, don't wash your hands and keep touching him. I'm exaggerating, but you see the point.
These are the kind of people that would charge the no-show fee because you were in a car accident and missed the lesson, while being in the ER unable to do anything about it.

Is it a flight school or a private instructor?
If talking to them doesn't fix things, I would suggest voting with your wallet and spending your money somewhere else.

Did something similar to my flight school. Cancelled a flight because I found too much murky dark brown water in the tanks during pre-flight. Didn't feel comfortable flying the plane. They tried charging the late cancellation fee, told them I'd dispute the charge and call the FAA on them. Stopped flying there soon after, moved to a different airport an extra 30 minutes away. They never got another dime from me, all because of their cancellation policy. And I actively steer potential flight students away from them to this day, many years after that incident.
 
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