Near miss on final video

Timmer said:
Interesting. Whenever I'm #3, the main traffic I look for is #2.
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I always try to identify all the traffic ahead of me. You don't have to wait for your assigned sequencing to start keeping track. As soon as you approach the airport, you can scan backward from the runway threshold to identify inbound planes.
 
Scary. Fortunately, the slow death of GA means that there will be fewer aircraft in the sky with which to collide.
 
Sounds like the solo pilot simply miss-identified the #1 airplane as the #2 airplane. Makes you wonder of the twin saw him and just thought he would put a scare into him.

Good question for some of our Tower Flowers......Do you guys glass your incoming aircraft to make sure they are whee they say they are?
 
It seems like not too many people read the comments left by the poster of the video. The pilot was talking to ATC so yes, there were communications. He was told that he was #3 but he only saw #1, he did not see #2 which seems to have been the twin. My guess is that the 172 turned base and final inside of the Duchess and ATC did not catch this and the Duchess did not see the 172. So many people blaming the Duchess who is the least at fault in this in my opinion. Yes, he needs to watch for the other traffic but I bet as he was #2 that he saw #1 and followed but did not see #3. Right or wrong, you sort of expect that if you are #2 that you should not have to worry about #3. Obviously wrong in this case but the fault is more with the 172 and ATC.
 
One thing that bothers me is when I hear a guy calling his position based on an IFR approach at an uncontrolled airport. As a VFR pilot, that sometimes (more than not) doesn't help me determine where/or when that guy might turn up on final.
 
That's about the only thing that will elicit a smart a$$ed response from me on the radio.

Them: "Harrison Traffic, Bugsmasher 345EB, 2,500', BAKKY, procedure turn outbound."

Me: "And what exactly does that tell the VFR traffic in the area?"
 
timwinters said:
That's about the only thing that will elicit a smart a$$ed response from me on the radio.

Them: "Harrison Traffic, Bugsmasher 345EB, 2,500', BAKKY, procedure turn outbound."

Me: "And what exactly does that tell the VFR traffic in the area?"
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oh, thank-you! It's not just me then..:)
 
Most of the inbound IFR guys I hear call the miles out. Unless you clearly hear what they are flying you may not understand how quickly they will be arriving. I try to assume they are making about two miles a minute and plan accordingly. If in doubt always safer to extend downwind and lay an eyeball on them.
 
timwinters said:
That's about the only thing that will elicit a smart a$$ed response from me on the radio.

Them: "Harrison Traffic, Bugsmasher 345EB, 2,500', BAKKY, procedure turn outbound."

Me: "And what exactly does that tell the VFR traffic in the area?"
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Hold on one darn minute.......That's the only thing that will elicit a smart a$$ed comment from you????

I beg to differ!!!!!!
 
tmyers said:
Most of the inbound IFR guys I hear call the miles out. Unless you clearly hear what they are flying you may not understand how quickly they will be arriving. I try to assume they are making about two miles a minute and plan accordingly. If in doubt always safer to extend downwind and lay an eyeball on them.
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I'm not sure that is always practical. Especially when they call as I'm turning to base. I think in the future I'm going to take Muttley's advice and say something like, "Please translate that into miles or time to local traffic pattern?"
 
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tmyers said:
Hold on one darn minute.......That's the only thing that will elicit a smart a$$ed comment from you????

I beg to differ!!!!!!
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On the radio, Tim, on the radio.

Elsewhere all bets are off...as you well know! :)

Besides, I did say "about the only thing"!

SkyDog58 said:
That would explain it.
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Yeah, another example of iThingies provided a mere "partial" internet experience.

When I click the link in the OP on my iPad, the YouTube app launches and the video plays...but no comments are visible...

FastEddieB said:
Look to the right at the column of suggested videos.

At least on an iPad you can scroll to the bottom of that and see comments.

Just verified on an iPhone you can just scroll down to see them.
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Ahhh! I stand corrected! It's at the very bottom of the list of "suggestd video" on my iPad...way off the bottom of the screen and requiring a scroll down. Not very obvious but indeed there! Thanks Ed.
 
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If I have already turned base when I hear their first call, I just report my position again and ask how many minutes till they arrive. Most I have worked with will perform a couple s turns for spacing if they know where you are.

Of course Mutley likes to do a critter clearing pass so traffic behind him is of no concern!!!!
 
Well, flying final at 150kts indicated sure eliminates being caught from behind...for the most part! :rofl:
 
That is a heck-of-a way to make your first solo circuit, wow. I would hope that if I reported as 'student pilot' ATC would be a little more helpful in that case.
 
I don't get how this could have ever happened? The video clearly shows the pilot wasn't watching TV and was looking out the window so... how in the world could this have happened? :rolleyes2:
 
Every time I see a video on the internet I figure there's a good chance that it was orchestrated.
 
txflyer said:
I hate straight in approaches for this very reason.

Every private jet that lands here I never hear a damn word from them. I guess they're all on IFR clearances and can't be bothered with us poor folks....
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They are talking to someone and probably listening for you to say something so announce what you are doing and they will at least know you are their.
 
brien23 said:
They are talking to someone and probably listening for you to say something so announce what you are doing and they will at least know you are their.
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I still announce my every move in an un-controlled pattern like a student. :yes:
 
Okay, the same damn thing happened to me. And it was even closer.

KAPC cleared me to land straight in on 24, about five miles out and a Bonanza called up for landing and was cleared #2. I was about a mile final when I felt a "whoosh" and the Bo went right over the top of me, like he never saw me.

Needless to say I did not have kind words to say over the radio. I was pretty excited. They made the Bo go around and let me land. But seriously, it was just a few feet.
 
txflyer said:
I still announce my every move in an un-controlled pattern like a student. :yes:
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Radios are not required equipment in uncontrolled airspace. Use your eyes to see others. Make it easy for them to spot you. Don't assume other pilots have radios or know how to use them.
 
Making position announcements on the radio doesn't preclude looking out the window.

Stewartb said:
Radios are not required equipment in uncontrolled airspace. Use your eyes to see others. Make it easy for them to spot you. Don't assume other pilots have radios or know how to use them.
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SkyDog58 said:
Weird. The video appears to have been posted last November but the comments from the pilot just last night.

Even so, a lot of assuming went on.
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My guess is he posted the video last November but made it private until he knew the ramifications of what happened and then made it public recently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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timwinters said:
That's about the only thing that will elicit a smart a$$ed response from me on the radio.

Them: "Harrison Traffic, Bugsmasher 345EB, 2,500', BAKKY, procedure turn outbound."

Me: "And what exactly does that tell the VFR traffic in the area?"
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I usually nicely ask for a position report in such circumstances. Given that I utter geek-speak to uncomprehending non pilots, I can't blame an IFR pilot from uttering geek-speak that is incomprehensible to me.
 
HFS that was a close shave. As I read the video poster's comments, tower called out two airplanes and the student pilot ID'd one and followed it. Yes that was the student pilot's mistake but two other people were not on the ball either: the twin pilot and the controller. So the student pilot says he has #2 in sight, but as a controller do you not verify that he is turning in the correct sequence? As the twin pilot do you not see the guy turning base-to-final in front of you or are you head-down fiddling with switches?

There was plenty of failure to go around in this one.


steingar said:
I usually nicely ask for a position report in such circumstances. Given that I utter geek-speak to uncomprehending non pilots, I can't blame an IFR pilot from uttering geek-speak that is incomprehensible to me.
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At a non-towered field when operating with mixed traffic all traffic really needs to announce their positions in a way that everyone in the area will understand. VFR pilots don't spend time memorizing all the fixes on all the approaches so using those terms isn't very helpful to those guys. But VFR pilots do know enough that if someone says they're on, say, ILS 35R to expect traffic on final to that runway at least.

During practice approaches at a non-towered field, it can be tough for a pilot to switch from IFR-speak with approach to VFR-speak on CTAF but doing so is the best practice.
 
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steingar said:
I usually nicely ask for a position report in such circumstances. Given that I utter geek-speak to uncomprehending non pilots, I can't blame an IFR pilot from uttering geek-speak that is incomprehensible to me.
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Much of it is because the IFR pilot really has no idea where the hell they are in relation to the airport to give an accurate radio call. They will know they're north of the airport. But, depending on equipment, and skill, that's about all they'll know sometimes. Should that be the case? Not really...but...it's the reality sometimes when you're loaded up with a lot of tasks.

I really try and teach instrument students to give good position reports - but it's not as easy as it would seem sometimes when their brain is pretty tied up.
 
jesse said:
Much of it is because the IFR pilot really has no idea where the hell they are in relation to the airport to give an accurate radio call. They will know they're north of the airport. But, depending on equipment, and skill, that's about all they'll know sometimes. Should that be the case? Not really...but...it's the reality sometimes when you're loaded up with a lot of tasks.

I really try and teach instrument students to give good position reports - but it's not as easy as it would seem sometimes when their brain is pretty tied up.
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I believe it, which is why I politely ask for a position report. The IFR pilot may have trouble figuring out where they are, but there are going to be VFR ships in the vicinity of the airport, so the IFR pilots had best get a clue.
 
jesse said:
Much of it is because the IFR pilot really has no idea where the hell they are in relation to the airport to give a better radio call. Should that be the case? Not really...but...it's the reality sometimes when you're loaded up with a lot of tasks.
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It's not THAT hard. With a procedure turn, the approach plate has a "remain within XX miles of YY" notation (which might be the airport, or a navaid or fix), and a final approach course.

And if the distance isn't known due to task saturation, even just the direction and altitude is helpful. Even during the 180 of a procedure turn, you won't be THAT far off the cardinal direction.

"Podunk traffic puke green Bugsmasher 123XY south of the field at 3000 level, procedure turn inbound Podunk."

Even without the distance, you're level at 3000 and it's going to be a few minutes before you're close to the pattern.
 
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