NCAA football and pay for play

bartmc said:
Read it, pick up on the key points.

"One group is not more hardworking"

I caught college women's bowling on ESPNU the other day, the team leader was about 280 lbs.

"Ignore the money" and pay no attention to the billions other folks are raking in.

"Unequal treatment" blah blah blah

"Look at all the people riding on the coat tails of the profitable folks."


Almost reads like the communist manifestos.
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Right.

I don't know what line of work you're in, but in most companies, any intellectual property that you create while in their employ belongs to the employer. In exchange, you are paid compensation for your work. It's true in CPA firms, law firms, and on college campuses. If Steingar invents the cure for cancer while using the university's laboratories, that IP belongs to the University.

Same thing here. That's not communism.

If Manziel went to Eastern Carolina University, he could tear up the defenses there too, but without the profile of Texas A&M, he wouldn't be where he is today just because he was the best passer at ECU. Texas A&M provided intangible and tangible benefits to Manziel that helped him have the profile he has today.

But you think it's all one-sided, and that the school owes Manziel more. Too bad. In fact, he quit on the school. They owe him nothing.
 
Having worked in college athletics while in school I don't really care for the athletes with the "woe is me" attitude. If they are on a full ride they get free housing, meal plans, clothing oh and free school. Not to mention if the stipend they get for "walking around money" (at most schools it is in excess of $800/month and at the biggest it is considerably more). The point of the stipend is to help offset cost of living if you are off campus, keep in mind they usually live 2-4 to an apartment that costs $500-$1000/month...you do the math. Then you walk into where they live and you are guaranteed to see the latest gaming system and TV's.

Now I get it the athletic departments and schools greatly benefit from their success and maybe something does need to be done to distribute the money more. However that money also goes to supporting your girlfriend that is on the soccer or softball team (you know so they can fly commercial instead of bussing everywhere while you are on a charter plane) and so she can get a free education and nearly the same benefits as you. Or so they can build the nice pimpin new practice facility, locker rooms or dorms just for you to use. Or to improve the experience and facilities for the people that are spending this money the fans and alums who are essentially investors at this point (don't take care of them they will remember when you actually need their money). The list goes on and on and on.

Sadly none of those that complain realize how they are essentially getting paid in benefits that are worth 50% or more than what their non student athlete counter parts will make in their first jobs...oh and you get to come out debt free (or very little debt).

Oh and don't complain about not having money to eat if you are covered in tatoo's (however you may not have even paid for those!).

End rant...
 
Cykoguy said:
Having worked in college athletics while in school I don't really care for the athletes with the "woe is me" attitude. If they are on a full ride they get free housing, meal plans, clothing oh and free school. Not to mention if the stipend they get for "walking around money" (at most schools it is in excess of $800/month and at the biggest it is considerably more). The point of the stipend is to help offset cost of living if you are off campus, keep in mind they usually live 2-4 to an apartment that costs $500-$1000/month...you do the math. Then you walk into where they live and you are guaranteed to see the latest gaming system and TV's.

Now I get it the athletic departments and schools greatly benefit from their success and maybe something does need to be done to distribute the money more. However that money also goes to supporting your girlfriend that is on the soccer or softball team (you know so they can fly commercial instead of bussing everywhere while you are on a charter plane) and so she can get a free education and nearly the same benefits as you. Or so they can build the nice pimpin new practice facility, locker rooms or dorms just for you to use. Or to improve the experience and facilities for the people that are spending this money the fans and alums who are essentially investors at this point (don't take care of them they will remember when you actually need their money). The list goes on and on and on.

Sadly none of those that complain realize how they are essentially getting paid in benefits that are worth 50% or more than what their non student athlete counter parts will make in their first jobs...oh and you get to come out debt free (or very little debt).

Oh and don't complain about not having money to eat if you are covered in tatoo's (however you may not have even paid for those!).

End rant...
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I didn't even get to finish reading your bs once I read the first paragraph I had to respond.

First and foremost I was one of those athletes on scholarship for a major Big12 football team.

You don't get the free housing/meals +stipend. It's either or. The free schooling isn't free. You spend about 95% of the year @ the university doing workouts,study hall and school.

If you live off campus you get (we got 700$) a month and that's all. ****.... If they paid for housing and meals plus 700$ I wouldn't complain at all. But the fact is, your bs isn't true. I guess its possible it changed since 2008 but I doubt it.

I'm not for an athlete getting 100k in cash a year plus all that. But a decent amount to live on that coincides with the hours we "work" ....and yes it's work don't kid yourself.

Say 2,000$ a month would he just fine.
 
nddons said:
Right.

I don't know what line of work you're in, but in most companies, any intellectual property that you create while in their employ belongs to the employer. In exchange, you are paid compensation for your work. It's true in CPA firms, law firms, and on college campuses. If Steingar invents the cure for cancer while using the university's laboratories, that IP belongs to the University.

Same thing here. That's not communism.

If Manziel went to Eastern Carolina University, he could tear up the defenses there too, but without the profile of Texas A&M, he wouldn't be where he is today just because he was the best passer at ECU. Texas A&M provided intangible and tangible benefits to Manziel that helped him have the profile he has today.

But you think it's all one-sided, and that the school owes Manziel more. Too bad. In fact, he quit on the school. They owe him nothing.
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I have no opinion on what they "owe" him. Apparently your the one who thinks that you know what they owe him. That's SHOULD be entirely between him and the university. It's not ant that's why it's 100% one sided. I don't care if he pays them $100,000 a year to let him play there. All I'm saying is let the kid sort it out with the university. Why is it that you insist on forcing down these kids throats "the system you like" especially since my guess is you have no financial interest in the negotiations. My guess is colleges would be lining up with open checkbooks to get kids like Jamies and Johnny if they were allowed to operate in the free market like everyone else in this country with a skill to sell. If your system is the best system, drop the NCAA BS and let's see what ALL interested parties come up with. When the rules are made, there's 2 people at the table, the universities and the NCAA, who do you think they're looking out for? And you want to silence the kids? why? I don't understand it.

Playing at aTm provides intangible benefits? :rofl::rofl::rofl: Half of the folks in the NFL played at schools you've never heard of. Jerry Rice and Randy Moss come to mind. I don't even think Kurt Warner played in college.
 
Cykoguy said:
Having worked in college athletics while in school I don't really care for the athletes with the "woe is me" attitude. If they are on a full ride they get free housing, meal plans, clothing oh and free school. Not to mention if the stipend they get for "walking around money" (at most schools it is in excess of $800/month and at the biggest it is considerably more). The point of the stipend is to help offset cost of living if you are off campus, keep in mind they usually live 2-4 to an apartment that costs $500-$1000/month...you do the math. Then you walk into where they live and you are guaranteed to see the latest gaming system and TV's.

Now I get it the athletic departments and schools greatly benefit from their success and maybe something does need to be done to distribute the money more. However that money also goes to supporting your girlfriend that is on the soccer or softball team (you know so they can fly commercial instead of bussing everywhere while you are on a charter plane) and so she can get a free education and nearly the same benefits as you. Or so they can build the nice pimpin new practice facility, locker rooms or dorms just for you to use. Or to improve the experience and facilities for the people that are spending this money the fans and alums who are essentially investors at this point (don't take care of them they will remember when you actually need their money). The list goes on and on and on.

Sadly none of those that complain realize how they are essentially getting paid in benefits that are worth 50% or more than what their non student athlete counter parts will make in their first jobs...oh and you get to come out debt free (or very little debt).

Oh and don't complain about not having money to eat if you are covered in tatoo's (however you may not have even paid for those!).

End rant...
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Right, more socialism in college. And we wonder where it comes from even our conservative friends agree it seems. It's not fair waaaa waaaa the women's 3rd alternate badminton player deserves the same as Johnny Mansfield waaaaa waaaa it's already unfair enough! some kids have to pay for college, waaaa waaaa. We need a more socialized system where everyone gets the same even though a few bring it all to the table. Hope and Change.
 
bartmc said:
Right, more socialism in college. And we wonder where it comes from even our conservative friends agree it seems. It's not fair waaaa waaaa the women's 3rd alternate badminton player deserves the same as Johnny Mansfield waaaaa waaaa it's already unfair enough! some kids have to pay for college, waaaa waaaa. We need a more socialized system where everyone gets the same even though a few bring it all to the table. Hope and Change.
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Sounds like you're the one who is whining.

You never addressed my IP analogy. Because the real world directly conflicts with your ideological world?

If Manziel "brought it all to the table", how on God's earth did Texas A&M get by before Manziel got there? I bet they couldn't even afford to field a checkers team before he brought millions into the school. :rolleyes2
 
bartmc said:
I have no opinion on what they "owe" him. Apparently your the one who thinks that you know what they owe him. That's SHOULD be entirely between him and the university. It's not ant that's why it's 100% one sided. I don't care if he pays them $100,000 a year to let him play there.
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I respect your opinion, but...

Under Title IX, if there are 85 male scholarships for football, there must be 85 female scholarships in other sports. While the universities are happy to fund all of these scholarships if they're one of the lucky ones to have a truly profitable revenue sport, most don't run a profit ("only 23 out of 1,100 generated more money than they spent on athletics in the past fiscal year" per the excerpt above).

I'm all for capitalism, but unbridled capitalism is not always the answer. Your concept of letting each kid have a two-party negotiation regarding how much cash would go into his pocket would literally transport the college teams into professional teams, and the universities are unlikely to accept that because it is counter to their primary mission as an educational institution.

Maybe there are more practical solutions (like some additional amount of walk-around money mentioned by former college player/aviator Hulk), but a pure pay-for-play system would be antithetical to the administrators.

There are plenty of students who are excellent athletes who would still participate in football, baseball, basketball, hockey, crew, etc., just for fun and for the experience.

I would still financially support and cheer for a football team composed entirely of walk-on students. The product would be less polished, but still great fun to watch.

Let the pros who only wanna get paid go play in some farm league of their own. Good luck finding the fans.

The players that want to be treated like pros should remember the phrase, "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it." I'm thinking they'll get an NFL farm league, divorced from the university experience, that pays poorly and nobody cares about.
 
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nddons said:
Sounds like you're the one who is whining.

You never addressed my IP analogy. Because the real world directly conflicts with your ideological world?

If Manziel "brought it all to the table", how on God's earth did Texas A&M get by before Manziel got there? I bet they couldn't even afford to field a checkers team before he brought millions into the school. :rolleyes2
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They got by by having other good athletes working for nothing. Check their financial numbers since he arrived. He's a point example, erase his name and sub any other, but yep he's worth more than anyone else on the team. Sorry ladies, women's bowling is great and all but it's worth nothing.

I should be crying, I was a damn good motocross racer contemplating going pro, but I had to give it up to dedicate time to college (that I paid out of pocket for working multiple jobs) no scholarship offer for motocross and it's much more profitable than bowling.
 
bartmc said:
I should be crying, I was a damn good motocross racer contemplating going pro, but I had to give it up to dedicate time to college (that I paid out of pocket for working multiple jobs) no scholarship offer for motocross and it's much more profitable than bowling.
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I'm with you. Replace mx with flat track and that was my exact situation accept I went pro and never paid attention to education. Sadly pro flat track is nearly impossible to make a living at.

What is crazy is a lot of these college athletes get life long injuries from their sport but don't even get medical coverage unless they are special. At a minimum they should all at least get medical and some stipend to live on.
 
Midpoint said:
I'm with you. Replace mx with flat track and that was my exact situation accept I went pro and never paid attention to education. Sadly pro flat track is nearly impossible to make a living at.

What is crazy is a lot of these college athletes get life long injuries from their sport but don't even get medical coverage unless they are special. At a minimum they should all at least get medical and some stipend to live on.
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Oh please. Show me those stats.

I had two knee surgeries when I was in college from being a defensive tackle. The cost were paid by whatever insurance I had at the time. My knee still clicks at times. Is that a life long injury? At least I have good stories to tell, and didn't get injured in a serious ballroom dancing accident.

The difference is unlike Manziel, the other 99% of college student athletes actually get a college degree, move on to a career in something other than sports, and can get their health insurance themselves or through their employers.

It's amazing so many people are up in arms for the 1% of student athletes to make more money. You should have been out there correcting the occupy folks about which 1% is really important.
 
nddons said:
Oh please. Show me those stats.

I had two knee surgeries when I was in college from being a defensive tackle. The cost were paid by whatever insurance I had at the time. My knee still clicks at times. Is that a life long injury? At least I have good stories to tell, and didn't get injured in a serious ballroom dancing accident.

The difference is unlike Manziel, the other 99% of college student athletes actually get a college degree, move on to a career in something other than sports, and can get their health insurance themselves or through their employers.

It's amazing so many people are up in arms for the 1% of student athletes to make more money. You should have been out there correcting the occupy folks about which 1% is really important.
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It's all good. I think we can agree. The current system is the best for all parties involved, we know that. They being involved and all, they'll be the first to realize it. So, the NCAA rules on pay for play and all that are unnecessary, so there's no harm in getting rid of them. The best system will evolve and it will be what we have today!!!! As you said the colleges don't want to negotiate so the status quo will remain. No harm no foul right?
 
bartmc said:
These are negative how? Manziel has been estimated to have been worth approx $37,000,000 to Texas A&M? He got paid squat. They sold $60,000 worth of his jersey's alone.

This is 'murica, folks should be able to negotiate their skills for whatever someone is willing to pay for them.
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But if Maziel went to Local Town Junior College, he'd be an unknown. It's a very symbiotic relationship.
 
pilot_dude said:
But if Maziel went to Local Town Junior College, he'd be an unknown. It's a very symbiotic relationship.
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Let's see how much symbiotic is worth? If the status quo is correct, nothing changes.

You know who Jerry Rice is don't you? Have you ever heard of Mississippi Valley State? If you have it's likely you know mvsu because of jerry rice
 
bartmc said:
Let's see how much symbiotic is worth? If the status quo is correct, nothing changes.

You know who Jerry Rice is don't you? Have you ever heard of Mississippi Valley State? If you have it's likely you know mvsu because of jerry rice
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Rare but it happens. And I have been aware of MVSU before Mr. Rice put them on the map. Speaking of which, Mr. Rice sure helped them win those Championship titles due to the recruiting efforts of him being on the team!

Let's go ahead and pay them to play. I'd lean towards ok as long as there are no scholarships, pay dependent upon play and the university can fire them (read expel) if performance on the gridiron and in the classroom does not meet objectives.

Moreover, the make up of the team will need to resemble that of the nation as a whole (may concede state make up) of about 78% white, 17% Hispanic, 13% black and 5% Asian in order to keep from being accused of the "R" word.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I didn't even get to finish reading your bs once I read the first paragraph I had to respond.

First and foremost I was one of those athletes on scholarship for a major Big12 football team.

You don't get the free housing/meals +stipend. It's either or. The free schooling isn't free. You spend about 95% of the year @ the university doing workouts,study hall and school.

If you live off campus you get (we got 700$) a month and that's all. ****.... If they paid for housing and meals plus 700$ I wouldn't complain at all. But the fact is, your bs isn't true. I guess its possible it changed since 2008 but I doubt it.

I'm not for an athlete getting 100k in cash a year plus all that. But a decent amount to live on that coincides with the hours we "work" ....and yes it's work don't kid yourself.

Say 2,000$ a month would he just fine.
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I'm sorry that you didn't get to finishing reading my bs.

You are correct thank you for calling me out I should have clarified that the stipend is for scholarship players living off campus. The school I was at was $600/a month. Still easy to live off of in a college town.

You obviously also missed the point. When you add up ALL of the benefits (not just the stipend) your payment is pretty considerable for being 18-22 with no college degree.
 
bartmc said:
Right, more socialism in college. And we wonder where it comes from even our conservative friends agree it seems. It's not fair waaaa waaaa the women's 3rd alternate badminton player deserves the same as Johnny Mansfield waaaaa waaaa it's already unfair enough! some kids have to pay for college, waaaa waaaa. We need a more socialized system where everyone gets the same even though a few bring it all to the table. Hope and Change.
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Quite a bit of crying you are doing. Did an athlete dump you or steal your girlfriend?

If that is socialism then it is already more rampant than we thought :yikes:

Is the HR department in your company profitable? What about the janitor? The fact is "distribution" as our conservative friends have made popular is 100% necessary for a successful business (which athletics are and everything probably should be viewed as). Profitablity does not have to mean value added. Those non-revenue sports add value whether or not you like said sport.
 
Cykoguy said:
Quite a bit of crying you are doing. Did an athlete dump you or steal your girlfriend?

If that is socialism then it is already more rampant than we thought :yikes:

Is the HR department in your company profitable? What about the janitor? The fact is "distribution" as our conservative friends have made popular is 100% necessary for a successful business (which athletics are and everything probably should be viewed as). Profitablity does not have to mean value added. Those non-revenue sports add value whether or not you like said sport.
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I'm married to a former WNBA player. If you're ever in the yum center in Louisville her 20' tall head is on one of the support beams honoring her hall of fame status.
 
pilot_dude said:
Rare but it happens. And I have been aware of MVSU before Mr. Rice put them on the map. Speaking of which, Mr. Rice sure helped them win those Championship titles due to the recruiting efforts of him being on the team!

Let's go ahead and pay them to play. I'd lean towards ok as long as there are no scholarships, pay dependent upon play and the university can fire them (read expel) if performance on the gridiron and in the classroom does not meet objectives.

Moreover, the make up of the team will need to resemble that of the nation as a whole (may concede state make up) of about 78% white, 17% Hispanic, 13% black and 5% Asian in order to keep from being accused of the "R" word.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
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I would buy into that concept on a trail basis....:yes:
 
jtheune said:
No they should not get paid above and beyond the free education they get out of the deal. As was pointed out above the money sports pay for the non money sports and if students had to be paid then all those non money sports would simply cease to exist on the college level. The students can get paid when they turn pro and not before.
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If they "got a free eduation out of the deal". The scholorships are 1 year deals. You get hurt and you are flipen burgers. They can take the money out of coaches salaries, which are nuts, to fund paying these guys and providing for full educational rides.
 
bartmc said:
I'm married to a former WNBA player. If you're ever in the yum center in Louisville her 20' tall head is on one of the support beams honoring her hall of fame status.
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Nice! My wife and I have a very good friend get drafted in the WNBA last year. She ended up getting cut but it was for the best. We know another girl who got drafted and ended up getting on with San Antonio. Tough league to break into and be successful in, congrats to your wife.
 
Wonder how much money is on the line here.
They're bumping the age to play in the NBA from 19 to 20.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10803355/adam-silver-says-pushing-back-nba-age-limit-top-priority

...the NCAA have discussed creating some programs and provisions to help players stay in college longer ...
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Forcing them is "helping" them.

In other news, the NCAA has loosened up its stance on payment. Apparently cream cheese is no longer considered compensation and the colleges can now legally feed their free labor.


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10802011/mark-emmert-agrees-ncaa-rule-food-was-absurd
 
What % of college football players make it the NFL? 1-2% maybe? How many of those have a career, 5+ years?? Not too many. I think the average NFL career is 3 years, having a college degree will come in pretty handy when you're 25 and unemployed with a bad shoulder.;)
By the way, we had pay for play in college football/basketball it was called the 70's and 80's, it didn't seem to work all that well. But it was a time when every hot recruit's "uncle" gave him a Trans Am for Christmas! :rofl::rofl:
 
N747JB said:
What % of college football players make it the NFL? 1-2% maybe? How many of those have a career, 5+ years?? Not too many. I think the average NFL career is 3 years, having a college degree will come in pretty handy when you're 25 and unemployed with a bad shoulder.;)
By the way, we had pay for play in college football/basketball it was called the 70's and 80's, it didn't seem to work all that well. But it was a time when every hot recruit's "uncle" gave him a Trans Am for Christmas! :rofl::rofl:
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I think car dealers make too much money. We should only let them make $15,000 (in coupons of our choosing of course) a year and not let them make a dime more, not let them sell what they get with their coupon and not let them earn anything on the side or let anyone buy them a meal. Then, we can give the rest of their profits to lazy poor folks. Those coupons will come in handy when they're 25, unemployed with a bad whatever. And folks who otherwise couldn't/were unwilling to get the coupons on their own will have some too!!! I'm starting to warm up to this "let's decide what contract two entities may engage in" mentality.
 
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bartmc said:
I think car dealers make too much money. We should only let them make $15,000 (in coupons of our choosing of course) a year and not let them make a dime more, not let them sell what they get with their coupon and not let them earn anything on the side or let anyone buy them a meal. Then, we can give the rest of their profits to lazy poor folks. Those coupons will come in handy when they're 25, unemployed with a bad whatever. And folks who otherwise couldn't/were unwilling to get the coupons on their own will have some too!!! I'm starting to warm up to this "let's decide what contract two entities may engage in" mentality.
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That's the worst comparison I've ever read. :dunno:
 
nddons said:
Sounds like you're the one who is whining.

You never addressed my IP analogy. Because the real world directly conflicts with your ideological world?

If Manziel "brought it all to the table", how on God's earth did Texas A&M get by before Manziel got there? I bet they couldn't even afford to field a checkers team before he brought millions into the school. :rolleyes2
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Hmmm. Johnny "Football" Manziel just entered rehab, according to the Browns.
 
nddons said:
Call it a paid internship. Our interns don't get paid what a partner gets paid. But they get something.

Hell, a lot of interns don't get paid anything. My daughter needed well over 1,000 hours of hands-on work with animals before she could even apply to vet schools. Four summers working 40-50 hours per week getting paid precisely zero. It's called " paying your dues."
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It's called differentiating yourself from the others vying for the same openings in veterinary school. When my dad was the head of the admissions committee for the veterinary school at Washington State University several decades ago they typically had 700 applicants for 70 openings in the incoming Freshman class. And a bunch more than 70 had 4.0 GPAs in their undergraduate studies. That intern work helped show that the applicant understood what the profession was really about and had a true interest in it. I don't know about today, but back then it was harder to get into veterinary school than to get into medical school. Certainly more competitive.
 
If a college forces a student athlete to adhere to draconian rules, curfews, limitations, and expectations, then refuses to allow them to make additional income on the side, make decisions about their own lives while they attend college, and behave in regimented ways, then the college is an employer and should reimburse the student athlete, or get out of the football business.
 
nddons said:
Hmmm. Johnny "Football" Manziel just entered rehab, according to the Browns.
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As a life long Browns fan, he just needs to get cut now. He's just another of a long line of 1st round QB busts drafted by the Browns.
 
Ghery said:
It's called differentiating yourself from the others vying for the same openings in veterinary school. When my dad was the head of the admissions committee for the veterinary school at Washington State University several decades ago they typically had 700 applicants for 70 openings in the incoming Freshman class. And a bunch more than 70 had 4.0 GPAs in their undergraduate studies. That intern work helped show that the applicant understood what the profession was really about and had a true interest in it. I don't know about today, but back then it was harder to get into veterinary school than to get into medical school. Certainly more competitive.
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Ghery, it's the same today. 1 in 10 get into vet school, with only 28 vet schools in the US, and a first year class size in the 70-90 range. The free intern work was a virtual condition for applying to the schools. As I'm sure your dad would concur, they anticipate very little drop out rates once you are accepted, and they don't want people to apply simply because love kittens as puppies. They only want people who have been exposed to the good, bad, and ugly side of animal health.

My daughter will be a veterinarian in about 95 days. Not that she's counting or anything. She ideally wants to work in a mixed practice with bovine (dairy) and small animal medicine.
 
nddons said:
Ghery, it's the same today. 1 in 10 get into vet school, with only 28 vet schools in the US, and a first year class size in the 70-90 range. The free intern work was a virtual condition for applying to the schools. As I'm sure your dad would concur, they anticipate very little drop out rates once you are accepted, and they don't want people to apply simply because love kittens as puppies. They only want people who have been exposed to the good, bad, and ugly side of animal health.

My daughter will be a veterinarian in about 95 days. Not that she's counting or anything. She ideally wants to work in a mixed practice with bovine (dairy) and small animal medicine.
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They manage their enrollment number to keep the salary high. The folks who don't make it go on to med school .
 
Florida Cracker said:
If a college forces a student athlete to adhere to draconian rules, curfews, limitations, and expectations, then refuses to allow them to make additional income on the side, make decisions about their own lives while they attend college, and behave in regimented ways, then the college is an employer and should reimburse the student athlete, or get out of the football business.
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You pretty much knocked that one out of the park.
 
As the OP, I will weigh in. My kid has graduated, with honors from a major engineering program after 5 full years of study. Along the way, she suffered serious injuries, many, many sleepless nights, and lots or regimen.

For those troubles, she graduated with no debt, was given a stipend for living expenses during the school year, and all her injuries were fully treated at no cost to her or us. She's now working for a fortune 50 company in a prestigious position making gobs of money.

So, for all the wailing about the money the schools make on revenue sports - ex football, the program in total isn't as corrupt as we might think. Please note that I'm not an advocate of forbidding pay for play, I'm just concerned how it will affect the non-revenue based sports like womens LaCrosse, or mens gymnastics. Revenue from the moneyed sports is diverted to these smaller sports, and that money provides scholarships for kids who in most cases really deserve a financial break to promote education and sports across the board. It is one of the clearest forms of socialism extant in the US today, and strangely enough, when it works well, it works well. In the past 25 years, the NCAA and many other vested organizations have seen to it that it's not working very well anymore.

I think after our involvement, I would make some changes to the program overall. It would tangentially affect the revenue sports like football and basketball, so it would be a hard program to put through. I would make the programs that student athletes very restrictive to certain fields which lead to good paying jobs, like business and engineering. no more scholarships for play in French Lit, or African studies. Further, I would do away with the NCAA almost completely from the financial aspects of the game. Let the NCAA manage the schedules, rules, and administration of the referees and judges. The schools and the media would handle the financial aspects, and the NCAA would be cut out completely. NCAA would be paid by schools out of their revenue and prohibited from taking money from media or sponsors. I'd have other rules separating the money from the middlemen, but that's the gist of it. If the schools want to pay the students a wage, it's up to them, but they still have to fund the other non-revenue scholarships the same, no reduction.
 
bartmc said:
They manage their enrollment number to keep the salary high. The folks who don't make it go on to med school .
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It's not a very lucrative profession. A farmer will only spend so much on a cow before he sends it to market. Likewise with pets. Equine, however, is very lucrative.
 
nddons said:
It's not a very lucrative profession. A farmer will only spend so much on a cow before he sends it to market. Likewise with pets. Equine, however, is very lucrative.
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The ones I know aren't doing too bad. I'd be a vet, no way I'd be a MD.
 
bartmc said:
The ones I know aren't doing too bad. I'd be a vet, no way I'd be a MD.
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That's my daughter's view too, but not the same reason. She thinks humans are icky, and couldn't imagine having to examine crotch rot on a 70 year old man. Instead, as late as two weeks ago, she was laying on the ground in a field of beef cattle, shoulder deep into a cow, pushing a calf back in so they could get the head in a position to come out of the birth canal. And to her, that's not icky.

She never played with dolls either.
 
Go do whatever...just don't compromise education.

I've realized that after six months without cable, I don't need sports. I actually have an invitation for Sling and could get back several channels, but I'm asking myself why I want to.
 
I'm not sure the colleges should pay student athletes, but I think the NCAA should. If the NCAA thinks it's ok to sell jerseys, etc. with the students name on it, then I think the NCAA should compensate them.
 
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