Mid-life Career Change to Airline Pilot. It's Doable.

Considering the posts by Doc Holliday, Groundpounder, and flyingcheesehead, and comparing those experiences to my own, I came to realize just how much my perspective is frozen in time. Obviously things were different then. The country was struggling to claw its way out of a recession (Reaganomics had not trickled-down very far), and those of us hoping to carve-out a career as a pilot were faced with an airline industry in disarray, suffering from economic woes AND going through the tumultuous initial stages of deregulation. Many were furloughing, some disappeared altogether, and the very few that were hiring took only a scant handful of pilots from tens of thousands of applicants. Corporate flight departments were being cut back or shut down altogether. Suffice it to say, times were tough. Charter operators such as the one that I worked for did not have the luxury of discretion when it came to clients, so "hotshot" cargo and air ambulance were major sources of revenue. You took what you could get. While typing-up post #424 I pulled an old logbook off the shelf and looked through entries from that period. It surprised me at how vividly I recalled many of those long-forgotten flights. The entries were like flies preserved in amber, a still-life document of time and place, the likes of which will never again exist.

flyingcheesehead said:
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Bro, do you even like to fly? Figuring it all out to go in whatever situation you're presented is exactly why I love it!
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Sometimes it's amusing, the way that others interpret what we post. "Bro," I love flying. Why else would I take a job like that, when other careers offered much better pay, benefits, and stability? I love airplanes and I love flying them (two different loves). I loved both the flying and the airplanes then, and 23k hours later, now. Sorry if my artless description of that particular job led you to a different conclusion.
 
Roger Wilco said:
Considering the posts by Doc Holliday, Groundpounder, and flyingcheesehead, and comparing those experiences to my own, I came to realize just how much my perspective is frozen in time. …..
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Your perspective is no more frozen in time than anyone else’s. For those whose only perspective is limited to their direct experience, they look at the world with blinders on.
 
Groundpounder said:
You’re not spoiled, it’s just a different era in aviation. You still had to bust your ass to get where you are.
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I will admit I am very spoiled with my current and bound to be my last corporate flying job, about to turn 64. We only fly around 100 hours a year and very few overnights. Almost no weekend or holiday trips. I have had four corporate flying jobs over the last 41 years and was never laid off or fired.

My first one was exactly what I needed in my mid 20's. I flew right seat in a Falcon 20, left and right in a KA200 and sp in a C310. One June I flew every day, one day I flew all 3 planes and several days I flew 2 of them. I would get home after the wife was asleep and be gone when she got up. No way would I do that now. That job lasted 3 years and was falling apart when I left. Only 4 or so months was crazy and it was toward the end.

On my second job, Falcon 20 both seats, we flew 50% of the weekends and most holidays. One busy day was Dallas, Athens TX, Gunnison, Aspen. Denver, Dallas, Waco, and ended the day in Acapulco.
 
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TCABM said:
Your perspective is no more frozen in time than anyone else’s. For those whose only perspective is limited to their direct experience, they look at the world with blinders on.
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I think that's the default human condition. Seeing the world that extends beyond our unique individual experience requires us to first acknowledge that it exists, and to have the desire to explore it.

With regard to my previous post, I meant frozen in time in the sense that, when I left that job, I left that world behind. I've had no connection to that corner of aviation in the four decades since and, as others have shown, much has changed while my own perspective of what we are calling retail 135 remains deeply rooted in the past.
 
Groundpounder said:
Phone call at 3pm to repo the airplane ASAP an hour to do an all night flight to the west coast, with a fuel stop. Yeah, I was rested for that….

We had iPad’s for EFB’s, but weren’t approved for EFB’s, but they also didn’t give us any charts. So to be legal, we had to find a printer somewhere and print out all the charts we thought we might need.

Schedule was 14/7. Sometimes you worked 14. Sometimes less, sometimes more. Sometimes you get called in the middle of your days off to just do one flight which turns into 5 days being gone.
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That sounds like a crummy company... Did they happen to have a fatigue policy?

I don't think I'd have answered the phone on my days off.

Groundpounder said:
Flying into ski country airports with inop EGPWS.
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What did the MEL say?
 
Roger Wilco said:
While typing-up post #424 I pulled an old logbook off the shelf and looked through entries from that period. It surprised me at how vividly I recalled many of those long-forgotten flights. The entries were like flies preserved in amber, a still-life document of time and place, the likes of which will never again exist.
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That sounds like it'd make a GREAT thread... Or even a book! I'd love it if you wrote some of them up!

Roger Wilco said:
Sometimes it's amusing, the way that others interpret what we post. "Bro," I love flying. Why else would I take a job like that, when other careers offered much better pay, benefits, and stability? I love airplanes and I love flying them (two different loves). I loved both the flying and the airplanes then, and 23k hours later, now. Sorry if my artless description of that particular job led you to a different conclusion.
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It just sounded like the flying was yet another complaint in the midst of all the others, so it stood out to me. Glad to hear you still love them both.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That sounds like it'd make a GREAT thread... Or even a book! I'd love it if you wrote some of them up!
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That's a good suggestion. Someday, perhaps, but there are a lot of other projects to get through first.
flyingcheesehead said:
It just sounded like the flying was yet another complaint in the midst of all the others, so it stood out to me. Glad to hear you still love them both.
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Again, I think it was a failure on my part if you read that post as a litany of complaints. My intent was merely to describe the challenges of that particular retail 135 job in the context of Groundpounder's comment in #405, which itself was a response to 6PC way back in #366. I think the contrast between #366 and #424 is both stark and amusing. But no complaints, only a lasting appreciation for the lifelong value that those experiences provided.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
That sounds like a crummy company... Did they happen to have a fatigue policy?

I don't think I'd have answered the phone on my days off.
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On paper they did, because it was required. I do not think it would go well if you actually called in fatigued.
 
I'll also point out that the 135 world has changed a lot in just the last 10-15 years. The airlines digging out of the lost decade - and especially the improved conditions at the regionals - made a lot of the typical 135 shenanigans no longer possible if an operator wanted pilots to stick around.
 
Plano Pilot said:
On my second job, Falcon 20 both seats, we flew 50% of the weekends and most holidays. One busy day was Dallas, Athens TX, Gunnison, Aspen. Denver, Dallas, Waco, and ended the day in Acapulco.
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What a trip! And much better than 7 legs in a Beech 99 flying for Rio (note--I did not fly for Rio). Glad you've enjoyed a smooth ride in the corporate world, especially for such a long stretch.
 
kayoh190 said:
I'll also point out that the 135 world has changed a lot in just the last 10-15 years. The airlines digging out of the lost decade - and especially the improved conditions at the regionals - made a lot of the typical 135 shenanigans no longer possible if an operator wanted pilots to stick around.
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Yep. I'm afraid that we're headed back to the bad old days now though - There'll be a fresh crop of sketchy 135 operators.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
OOOOOH! Best update!
Insurance on my Comanche went down. Per them, the addition of the ATP reduced the rate.
I only put 22 hours on it last year though :(

Starting to think about its liquid value. STOP IT BRYAN!
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That presents an interesting question, which you're obviously considering at least somewhat but not determined yet - the future of the Comanche.

A good friend of mine flies a 182. His father purchased that plane back in the early 80s. My friend and his brother both have instrument ratings, but don't really use them much. The father is a private pilot only. They don't fly the plane very much, and it's just for fun. They do occasional trips but consider it a $100 hamburger plane.

Around 15-20 years ago they were talking about potentially upgrading to more of a travel plane, some sort of twin. But, my friend works for [a major airline] as an A&P and as such they get flight benefits. They ultimately decided that they still want to keep the 182 for fun flying, but there's no point in a travel plane since they can just hop on standby and non-rev anywhere they want to go. They use that benefit a great deal.

So (and I realize this is probably coming to a YouTube channel near me soon), what does that do for the future of the mighty Comanche?
 
Jim K said:
If he sells the Comanche, he's going to have to bum rides to POA functions, and we're all going to make fun of him like @Dave Theisen :biggrin:
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I can get to the closest major hubs though.

XNA is only 30 minutes from Gaston's
Louisville is 21 minutes from Rough River
We Fly to Appleton and Tampa

Those are the 4 flights I generally take the Comanche to. So I would have to hitchike the last bit to the POA fly-ins.
 
Ted said:
That presents an interesting question, which you're obviously considering at least somewhat but not determined yet - the future of the Comanche.

A good friend of mine flies a 182. His father purchased that plane back in the early 80s. My friend and his brother both have instrument ratings, but don't really use them much. The father is a private pilot only. They don't fly the plane very much, and it's just for fun. They do occasional trips but consider it a $100 hamburger plane.

Around 15-20 years ago they were talking about potentially upgrading to more of a travel plane, some sort of twin. But, my friend works for [a major airline] as an A&P and as such they get flight benefits. They ultimately decided that they still want to keep the 182 for fun flying, but there's no point in a travel plane since they can just hop on standby and non-rev anywhere they want to go. They use that benefit a great deal.

So (and I realize this is probably coming to a YouTube channel near me soon), what does that do for the future of the mighty Comanche?
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Its hard to say. The new career did turn my plane back into a hobby. Last year me would kick myself for saying this but my interest in flying it is pretty low.
Embraer and Comanche are 2 completely different experiences but my desire to go places is addressed by work. Might be because right now all those places are new and there is exploration to be done.
Once I have hit them all 10X and they no longer feel like interesting destinations to explore, this might all get compartmentalized in a mental "work" bucket and the "fun" flying may be appealing again.
Add 1 year off work Plus new F.O. pay and not spending 15-20k a year on a plane sounds nice.

I am 50/50 right now. I mostly think about keeping it for another year and reevaluating how I feel. I currently think if I sold it, I would join a club, wait a couple years buy something simple again like the Grumman or maybe an RV.

Too soon to commit but I am way more comfortable entertaining this idea than I was a year ago. I couldn't imagine not having a plane. Now it is pretty easy to justify not owning one.

Also ^^^ I read all that and go "That's a guy that's going to sell his plane". Time will tell.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Its hard to say. The new career did turn my plane back into a hobby. Last year me would kick myself for saying this but my interest in flying it is pretty low.
Embraer and Comanche are 2 completely different experiences but my desire to go places is addressed by work. Might be because right now all those places are new and there is exploration to be done.
Once I have hit them all 10X and they no longer feel like interesting destinations to explore, this might all get compartmentalized in a mental "work" bucket and the "fun" flying may be appealing again.
Add 1 year off work Plus new F.O. pay and not spending 15-20k a year on a plane sounds nice.

I am 50/50 right now. I mostly think about keeping it for another year and reevaluating how I feel. I currently think if I sold it, I would join a club, wait a couple years buy something simple again like the Grumman or maybe an RV.

Too soon to commit but I am way more comfortable entertaining this idea than I was a year ago. I couldn't imagine not having a plane. Now it is pretty easy to justify not owning one.

Also ^^^ I read all that and go "That's a guy that's going to sell his plane". Time will tell.
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Completely understand and agree with all your points. For you a plane was a hobby, then it turned into a tool to go places and also build time to reach your current goal. Now you've reached that goal, and you get to fly more than you ever did previously.

I was never a $100 hamburger kind of pilot, I always liked flying with a mission/purpose/destination. When I decided to shut down Cloud Nine, selling the MU-2 was a requirement for multiple reasons, but I also felt no need to replace it with something else since I didn't feel a desire to do $100 hamburgers ($1000 in the MU-2). When my primary mission was KC->NYC to visit my mother, airlines were both way faster and way cheaper than flying myself. In an alternate world where I could've kept the MU-2 for myself I probably would've used it to go to and from NYC because I would've felt like I had to, and then ultimately been annoyed at the fact that it was slower/more expensive/less convenient than buying a full fare first class ticket on Delta flying into LGA with a quick cab ride to the apartment where I grew up - which had a view of the planes on initial climb out out of LGA.

You'll see what feels right. One way tickets always feel hard, but for what it's worth, I've not once regretted selling the MU-2. I even had the opportunity to buy it back from the man I sold it to not long ago and decided not to.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I can get to the closest major hubs though.

XNA is only 30 minutes from Gaston's
Louisville is 21 minutes from Rough River
We Fly to Appleton and Tampa

Those are the 4 flights I generally take the Comanche to. So I would have to hitchike the last bit to the POA fly-ins.
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Do you fly to Stephenville?
What you really need for your fun flying is a glider rating.
 
Jim K said:
We'd make fun of you too, if you'd show up :devil:
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He was for a fact at Kentucky Dam. I should know because he popped the top and handed me a cold beer before I even stepped off the Mooney wing walk. Guess I’m not flying anymore today LOL.
 
Lindberg said:
Do you fly to Stephenville?
What you really need for your fun flying is a glider rating.
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Yeah, I need to come visit you guys again. That was tremendous fun.
I feel like I saw a blimp over there last week. I wonder how one gets a dirigible lesson.
 
Bill said:
He was for a fact at Kentucky Dam. I should know because he popped the top and handed me a cold beer before I even stepped off the Mooney wing walk. Guess I’m not flying anymore today LOL.
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That has become one of my favorite things at the POA events. There needs to be a term for the measurement of time between landing and being handed the beer.
A POA minute, The ole Ramp Refresh, IAP to IPA, Chock and Chug...
 
I’ve been feeling this same effect. It doesn’t help that the planes I fly have more maintenance events. But I don’t think I have time in a piston airplane since September. The work airplane has seen all my attention.
 
kaiser said:
I’ve been feeling this same effect. It doesn’t help that the planes I fly have more maintenance events. But I don’t think I have time in a piston airplane since September. The work airplane has seen all my attention.
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boo hooo hooo, SOOOOO many jets to fly boohoo
 
What I want to know is if you announce the things that are the most important to the passengers like ceiling and wind speed when you are descending into your destination?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What I want to know is if you announce the things that are the most important to the passengers like ceiling and wind speed when you are descending into your destination?
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I do not. The guy to my left seems to think they know what Celsius is, and a lot of other things.
Really, most of them just have the METAR pulled up for our destination while they go through the PA.

Currently I am limited to "Flight attendants prepare for takeoff".

That is really just a queue for them to call me and let me know they have verified that everyone is buckled in and we can takeoff.
I do the PA, they call me and say "We're ready to go" and I tell the captain "All good in back" and he says "Before takeoff checklist"
Everything is a dance and I love it.
 
Half Fast said:
Don’t forget the altimeter setting.
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I was deadheading to Chicago day before yesterday and we had a ground stop for weather. it was dragging so the captain comes on and gives us the history of the Embraer and all the things they like about the plane.
It was odd but unlike the weather PA, people put down their phones and seemed to listen.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
It was odd but unlike the weather PA, people put down their phones and seemed to listen.
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You want passenger participation? Give a bottle of wine from first-class to the winner of the closest ETA crossing the Florida state line on the way to Disney World. FA's can participate, too, by collecting the seat numbers and ETAs from the Pax and figuring the winner.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Its hard to say. The new career did turn my plane back into a hobby. Last year me would kick myself for saying this but my interest in flying it is pretty low.
Embraer and Comanche are 2 completely different experiences but my desire to go places is addressed by work. Might be because right now all those places are new and there is exploration to be done.
Once I have hit them all 10X and they no longer feel like interesting destinations to explore, this might all get compartmentalized in a mental "work" bucket and the "fun" flying may be appealing again.
Add 1 year off work Plus new F.O. pay and not spending 15-20k a year on a plane sounds nice.

I am 50/50 right now. I mostly think about keeping it for another year and reevaluating how I feel. I currently think if I sold it, I would join a club, wait a couple years buy something simple again like the Grumman or maybe an RV.

Too soon to commit but I am way more comfortable entertaining this idea than I was a year ago. I couldn't imagine not having a plane. Now it is pretty easy to justify not owning one.

Also ^^^ I read all that and go "That's a guy that's going to sell his plane". Time will tell.
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Sell it and do some aerobatics for fun in Christy's warrior on the weekends...
 
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