Langley AFB. Possible crash a few minutes ago.

Hengelo said:
This reminds me of when Steve Irwin died. Rumors went from "snake bit him on the nose" to "eaten by a great white" and everything in between.

I heard it from a guy who knows a guy... who was there right after and talked to the medic/drove the truck/disposed of the dead snake...

#themorethingschange
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One other similarity to Steve Irwin. They both really lived before leaving too soon.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Of all the Rob Holland pics on the web right now, I think this is the best one. He volunteered to be a boundary line judge at last year's US Aerobatic Championships. That is a crap job. Sitting in a field alone for hours, watching to make sure aircraft don't leave the box.

View attachment 140557
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Sitting in a field peacefully for hours watching airplanes fly aerobatics? That sounds like heaven to me. Maybe that's because I have small children...
 
So if I understand that report it sounds like the counterweight threaded itself out until it made contact with the elevator thereby jamming the elevator. I have no engineering experience so take my question for what it is but is there any method that should have been used to prevent that counterweight from screwing itself out?
 
Tools said:
Usually safety wire… WAG
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Or reorient the weight where if it comes loose, it falls out of the bottom of the elevator counterweight arm, not into the gap between the elevator and HS. AND safety it.
 
AV8R_87 said:
That is a $#!tty way to go for such an exlerienced pilot.
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Yep.
Sad news indeed.
His airplane killed him.

I was really hoping to hear that the man suffered some sort of cardiac event, rather than something like this.
 
If he had a bind down low with trim set to approach speed, once he applied power for a go around, that would definitely cause the pitch up.
 
Velocity173 said:
If he had a bind down low with trim set to approach speed, once he applied power for a go around, that would definitely cause the pitch up.
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He had a pretty nice panel. NTSB should be able to see if that's what happened.
 
He put everything he had into it, the stick was broken off.

Hard to imagine his last seconds.
 
Sounds like a good case for moving the plug and counterweight to the outboard end of the elevator balance tab, rather than inboard. Stick could be body weight at impact or an extreme pull previous to impact, the direction of fracture should speak to that. I'm going to guess impact damage. Even for an expert pilot, there had to be a second or two of surprise at what should have been a routine landing. Not much time to plan on the next action or anything after that.
 
"The pilot collaborated with the manufacturer to modify the airplane to his specifications, which included an access hole on the left and right elevator to insert counterweights..."

Might be worth considering a safety check-in with the folks involved with that particular modification. I can't imagine knowing that I participated in approving a mod that evidently subsequently killed the pilot. Gotta be some feelings of guilt there. I'm ignorant of the aerobatics world, however, so perhaps this is a routine modification?

Hell of a way to go. All the skill in the world but no way to translate that through a jammed control surface. RIP.
 
francisco collazos said:
So if I understand that report it sounds like the counterweight threaded itself out until it made contact with the elevator thereby jamming the elevator. I have no engineering experience so take my question for what it is but is there any method that should have been used to prevent that counterweight from screwing itself out?
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He probably relied on torque, but no way to measure that with a slotted head, so he just cranked down on it with a screwdriver and hoped it would hold.

As designed, thread locker is probably the only way to secure. Thread locker is generally frowned upon in aviation maintenance, because there is no way to inspect it.

IMO the plug and socket should have been machined to accept a star washer.
 
In partial defense of the design:
The inboard end is to keep it out of sight of admirers of the plane.
The plug is not a screw or bolt, thread locker on a regularly changed thread will mess up the threads.
The "socket" is aluminum, relatively soft, and easily damaged.
A hole top to bottom for a cotter key would have worked, with each plug drilled the same distance from the "head end".
Or, since the plug has a slot for flat screwdriver, through the slot.
Removing and replacing that cotter would have been awkward, as the split end would have been under the elevator, but.....

Easy fix for any similar versions of that plane.
 
There's no way this wouldn't have been a sad result, no matter what it was. But it reads like he didn't make any mistakes in the air, wasn't flying unusual in any way, and just didn't have a chance.

I won't fault the design, because it was a one-off. That particular failure mode just wasn't something they expected. To prevent it, rather than just redesigning the screw to lock in place, I'd say better would be to not put it somewhere where if it backed out it would jam something. Figure out a place to put access to it where if the whole thing fell out it wouldn't jam anything. Hindsight, of course. From now forward, everyone that modifies a control surface is going to look at ways it could jam if the screws fail.

Props to NTSB for getting that report out so quickly.
 
Velocity173 said:
If he had a bind down low with trim set to approach speed, once he applied power for a go around, that would definitely cause the pitch up.
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Alternately, if he had a bind down low and tried to muscle it free, it could have popped loose and caused an unexpected pitch-up and snap roll.
 
geezer said:
The inboard end is to keep it out of sight of admirers of the plane.
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If so, a tragic result for vanity.

Flight critical items are usually placed for the most easy inspection if the designer is sharp.
 
where's the counterweight? Were they installed, or was it just the plug itself the item that jammed the whole thing. Crazy if so, given it was found away from the assembly, such a small piece amongst all that debris and grass.
 
Aircraft are high vibration environments. Every threaded fastener is subject to loosening and must be secured. Acceptable methods include lock washers, lock nuts, cotter pins, safety wire, snap rings, etc. Aviation maintenance 101.

I once forgot to wire the bolt head on an alternator tensioning arm. Took it for a 30 minute shakeout flight. When I landed, the bolt was gone.

This really sucks, but let's be honest: Rob had a hand in his own death. The mod was made to his specs, and he was well known for doing his own maintenance. IMO 99% odds he was the last person to touch that plug.
 
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francisco collazos said:
So if I understand that report it sounds like the counterweight threaded itself out until it made contact with the elevator thereby jamming the elevator. I have no engineering experience so take my question for what it is but is there any method that should have been used to prevent that counterweight from screwing itself out?
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A snap ring should have been used.
 
Why would you use different counter weights? For different airspeeds? Aren’t counter weights used to balance control surfaces to prevent flutter?
 
bonefishpete said:
Why would you use different counter weights? For different airspeeds? Aren’t counter weights used to balance control surfaces to prevent flutter?
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Vary the stick force for the same G to suit pilot desire (ostensibly so he/she can associate to a certain muscle memory force for extra precision in his/her routine). Not the only way to accomplish that, but certainly least complicated in a setup intended to be variable.
 
Ed Haywood said:
This really sucks, but let's be honest: Rob had a hand in his own death. The mod was made to his specs, and he was well known for doing his own maintenance. IMO 99% odds he was the last person to touch that plug.
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Pilot error doesn’t have to occur in the air. I would count this among the preflight errors like water in the fuel tank. I think we all make one now and then, with varying consequences.
 
bonefishpete said:
Finding that plug on the ground was almost a miracle.
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Finding the actual screw may have been a miracle but finding it missing as well as the corresponding marks where it jammed would have still led to the same conclusions. The control surfaces are examined in detail in accidents like this. It would be hard to believe that it would have been missed.
 
Albany Tom said:
I won't fault the design, because it was a one-off. That particular failure mode just wasn't something they expected. To prevent it, rather than just redesigning the screw to lock in place, I'd say better would be to not put it somewhere where if it backed out it would jam something. Figure out a place to put access to it where if the whole thing fell out it wouldn't jam anything. Hindsight, of course. From now forward, everyone that modifies a control surface is going to look at ways it could jam if the screws fail.

Props to NTSB for getting that report out so quickly.
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Well, if that’s not a design fault, I don’t know what is.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Vary the stick force for the same G to suit pilot desire (ostensibly so he/she can associate to a certain muscle memory force for extra precision in his/her routine). Not the only way to accomplish that, but certainly least complicated in a setup intended to be variable.
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No idea if that's what it was intended for or not; but accepting it for the purpose of discussion, changing the balance of a control surface is a really odd way to tailor stick force per g (i.e. "maneuvering stability"). A real bobweight or downspring can be pretty f'n simple to implement and modify safely.

Nauga,
and the "Why learn aerodynamics" thread
 
Ed Haywood said:
Aircraft are high vibration environments. Every threaded fastener is subject to loosening and must be secured. Acceptable methods include lock washers, lock nuts, cotter pins, safety wire, snap rings, etc. Aviation maintenance 101.

I once forgot to wire the bolt head on an alternator tensioning arm. Took it for a 30 minute shakeout flight. When I landed, the bolt was gone.

This really sucks, but let's be honest: Rob had a hand in his own death. The mod was made to his specs, and he was well known for doing his own maintenance. IMO 99% odds he was the last person to touch that plug.
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I always tell our mech at work, it’s amazing what vibration does to aircraft. I’ve seen latches on helicopters wear right through their stops.
 
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