Incident at Oshkosh

mryan75 said:
That's kind of odd, though, considering there are two numbers in a runway number and three in a heading. Aren't you better off setting it to your compass?
Click to expand...

Its more a cross-check to make sure that the DG is working, i.e. turning, (since it should have turned when you turn onto the runway) rather than actually setting it to the actual heading (which most people do before starting taxi or at the run-up). Although if it's slightly off (happens a lot on older DGs) you can get a quick rough adjustment before takeoff so at least you're not 20+ degrees off.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
OK thanks. Early reports were that there was some sort of runway incursion.
Click to expand...

If you listen to the LiveATC you hear tower give the "Malibu" clearance to land on the green dot, but then changes it to the orange dot saying he's got someone on the runway. Wonder why he didn't tell him to go-around...
 
benhar77 said:
If you listen to the LiveATC you hear tower give the "Malibu" clearance to land on the green dot, but then changes it to the orange dot saying he's got someone on the runway.
Click to expand...

So he was asking the landing pilot to fly over another aircraft, or stop short of an aircraft at the end of the runway?
 
rocketflyer84 said:
So he was asking the landing pilot to fly over another aircraft, or stop short of an aircraft at the end of the runway?
Click to expand...

The green dot is further than the orange, so seeing the traffic on the runway, he told the landing pilot to get it down sooner. Can't say from my desk if he landed on the rogue traffic, or rear ended him.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Also, isn't this a controlled field? Who gave out landing clearance before the runway was clear (or did the aircraft land without clearance)?
Click to expand...

AirVenture has waivers and constantly runs multiple ops on the same runway, that's why they have painted dots creating multiple thresholds and slopes per runway.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Its more a cross-check to make sure that the DG is working, i.e. turning, (since it should have turned when you turn onto the runway) rather than actually setting it to the actual heading (which most people do before starting taxi or at the run-up). Although if it's slightly off (happens a lot on older DGs) you can get a quick rough adjustment before takeoff so at least you're not 20+ degrees off.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes a lot of sense.
 
mryan75 said:
That's kind of odd, though, considering there are two numbers in a runway number and three in a heading. Aren't you better off setting it to your compass?
Click to expand...

The exact magnetic alignment of the runway is available off the plates and probably airport directory.
 
benhar77 said:
The green dot is further than the orange, so seeing the traffic on the runway, he told the landing pilot to get it down sooner. Can't say from my desk if he landed on the rogue traffic, or rear ended him.
Click to expand...

Did he actually hit him?:dunno: Not much info here.
 
Henning said:
The exact magnetic alignment of the runway is available off the plates and probably airport directory.
Click to expand...

Exactly, but I didn't think that the example put forward involved setting your DG to that number, but rather setting it to 330 if you're on runway 33. But RocketFlyer84's explanation of using it as a quick check makes perfect sense.
 
mryan75 said:
Exactly, but I didn't think that the example put forward involved setting your DG to that number, but rather setting it to 330 if you're on runway 33. But RocketFlyer84's explanation of using it as a quick check makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

I always do a quick on the centerline, but typically we're talking 2 seconds and I may still be rolling, there's no runway delay from it.
 
RoscoeT said:
I do that. But others teach to set on the runway to verify heading with the actual runway numbers. Remember the Teterboro crash? Worst case, spend 3 seconds doing it on the runway, not 30 seconds going thru your whole checklist.
Click to expand...

Points to ponder:

1.) The magnetic azimuth of the runway is probably not equal to the actual runway numbers.

2.) Even if the pilot knows the actual magnetic azimuth of the runway, verifying that the DG is set to that figure should not require three seconds and definitely does not require stopping on the runway.
 
mryan75 said:
... you don't even call the tower for clearance until you are 100% ready to go.
Click to expand...
North of 1,000 hours, CPL and IA, and I didn't know this rule was optional.

I hope the best-case rumors on the OSH crash are accurate.
 
All runways open now for arrivals and departures. They initially only allowed departures on 18, but now it's all green.

LiveATC is on fire! :yikes:
 
Wow, listening to LiveATC you aren't kidding!

Everyone still talking about a collision on the runway, there's no evidence of that here. Every news article only mentions the Malibu.
 
Heard at least 5 go-arounds in about 10 minutes.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Its more a cross-check to make sure that the DG is working, i.e. turning,
Click to expand...

I take care of that taxiing to the runway. A left right left swerve will show the DG and TC to be working. I check every gauge in the panel while I taxi to verify they are working and indicating appropriate data.
 
National news has one airlifted two transported by ambulance and two OK. Hope for a speedy recovery.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I take care of that taxiing to the runway. A left right left swerve will show the DG and TC to be working. I check every gauge in the panel while I taxi to verify they are working and indicating appropriate data.
Click to expand...

I do too, but I try to be in the habit of getting one last alignment check as I line up on centerline. It's mostly drill habit for IFR departures that I rarely make, but I figure a good habit. I might spent a second or two on the knob before I hit the throttles, I might just note to take 3° off it once I'm clean and climbing. I sure wouldn't sit on the runway at OSH over it.

I wonder how he was shortening up his approach a few thousand feet. Stretching them to land long is easy, doubling your angle of descent is trickier to manage.
 
"According to Brandon Cerecke, the owner, the pilot called him while being transported via ambulance and said another airplane pulled out in front of the Piper while it was on short final (just about to land). The Piper pilot took action to avoid collision with the airplane, causing it to crash."

- from news report
 
skyking3286 said:
"According to Brandon Cerecke, the owner, the pilot called him while being transported via ambulance and said another airplane pulled out in front of the Piper while it was on short final (just about to land). The Piper pilot took action to avoid collision with the airplane, causing it to crash."

- from news report
Click to expand...

WHO'S the other pilot?? :mad2:
 
The audio tapes ,show an airplane on the runway while the controller gave the Malibu permission to land.
 
skyking3286 said:
"According to Brandon Cerecke, the owner, the pilot called him while being transported via ambulance and said another airplane pulled out in front of the Piper while it was on short final (just about to land). The Piper pilot took action to avoid collision with the airplane, causing it to crash."

- from news report
Click to expand...

So basically, the Malibu pilot admits to screwing the pooch.

If he was maintaining situational awareness, there should've been plenty of time to realize the other aircraft on the runway might have been a conflict, and should've initiated a go-around. Collision avoidance does not mean crashing your airplane.
 
frfly172 said:
The audio tapes ,show an airplane on the runway while the controller gave the Malibu permission to land.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not unusual at OSH. Most people when given the runway and cleared to take off get their boogie on there. I'm guessing he tried to drive it on with a bit too much energy and the gear couldn't take the extra load...:dunno:
 
A witness from the Beechtalk board says he saw the incident. Malibu pilot turned a a late and tight base to final with over 45 degree bank and clipped the wing on the runway. Wing broke off and ignited. According to the witness there was no evasive maneuver done to avoid another plane on the runway.
 
mirage00 said:
A witness from the Beechtalk board says he saw the incident. Malibu pilot turned a a late and tight base to final with over 45 degree bank and clipped the wing on the runway. Wing broke off and ignited. According to the witness there was no evasive maneuver done to avoid another plane on the runway.
Click to expand...

That is an awfully low base to final turn for a PA-46.
 
mirage00 said:
A witness from the Beechtalk board says he saw the incident. Malibu pilot turned a a late and tight base to final with over 45 degree bank and clipped the wing on the runway. Wing broke off and ignited. According to the witness there was no evasive maneuver done to avoid another plane on the runway.
Click to expand...

Wth! That is crazy low. Just go around.
 
I would imagine there is a video somewhere of the incident. Too many cameras at Osh to miss it. It will show up somewhere soon enough.
 
My dad was #2 and his instructor in the right seat saw it all happen.

I also spoke to a few people on the flight line.

Over banked base to final turn, one wing hit first.

There was NOT another aircraft involved at least in the collision.

I'm not aware of what situation happened if there was another aircraft on the runway or whatnot so I won't speculate on that.

The right seater in my dads plane is shocked that anyone survived the impact.
 
Last edited:
Did the controller give him the green because he was already on a low enough slope for it?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
My dad was #2 and his instructor in the right seat saw it all happen.

I also spoke to a few people on the flight line.

Over banked base to final turn, one wing hit first.

There was NOT another aircraft involved at least in the collision.

I'm not aware of what situation happened if there was another aircraft on the runway or whatnot so I won't speculate on that.

The right seater in my dads plane is shocked that anyone survived the impact.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense based on the pics...:yes:
 
just realized that I have flown in that plane. Ken kaminski is the owner of flying colors aircraft painting located on the field in Benton harbor....he flew us back to our home field when we ferried a citation down to his place for some paint work....

Prayers for all involved...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Wow! I can't imagine being that low turning final.


fiveoboy01 said:
My dad was #2 and his instructor in the right seat saw it all happen.

I also spoke to a few people on the flight line.

Over banked base to final turn, one wing hit first.

There was NOT another aircraft involved at least in the collision.

I'm not aware of what situation happened if there was another aircraft on the runway or whatnot so I won't speculate on that.

The right seater in my dads plane is shocked that anyone survived the impact.
Click to expand...
 
I was told by a witness that he was pushing 60 degrees of bank. That will get you lower and definitely not where you want it.

Could have been much worse really, a spin would have most certainly killed everyone onboard.

I had planned to get up early so I could see my dad land. I'm glad I didn't make it, not really something I would have liked to see.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I was told by a witness that he was pushing 60 degrees of bank. That will get you lower and definitely not where you want it.

Could have been much worse really, a spin would have most certainly killed everyone onboard.

I had planned to get up early so I could see my dad land. I'm glad I didn't make it, not really something I would have liked to see.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a Jack Roush landing all over again,,,,:yikes:
 
Last edited:
mryan75 said:
Aren't you better off setting it to your compass?
Click to expand...
Right or wrong, my primary CFI would ask me: "you gonna navigate by that cheap thing? (meaning the mag compass)

He also strongly discouraged me from sitting on the numbers futzing with the compass, radios, whatever. He is an ex-Marine (to the extent that any Marine is ever an ex-Marine) who flew F-4s. He preferred me to set the DG on the parallel taxiway.

-Skip
 
A 60 degree bank to final so low that you scrape a wing??

Doesn't pass the smell test.
 
I was just about to start up in HBC when my wing walker told me they just closed the field. Three hours later there was a mad dash to depart. The FAA guys and volunteers did a great job getting all of us out of there as humanly as possible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top