Heli crash NYC

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by 1anG, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. 1anG

    1anG Pre-Flight

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  2. rocketflyer84

    rocketflyer84 Line Up and Wait

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  3. Warlock

    Warlock Line Up and Wait

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  4. 1anG

    1anG Pre-Flight

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    Reported as not being in communication with ATC which would refualte that he couldn't fly into the clouds correct?
     
  5. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Hmm. If that’s true, there might’ve been some funny time games going on.
     
  6. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    What did I just watch? :confused:
     
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  7. kc4wsd

    kc4wsd Pre-takeoff checklist

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  8. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    Spatial disorientation??
    For ppl that have flown both planes and choppers. Is Spatial disorientation a lot worse I a helicopter??
     
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  9. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    No difference. You generally ride slightly nose down at cruise and the vibration is worse but spatial d is spatial d. Happens in both airframes.

    I’d say this, there are some helos that without stability augmentation they would be a serious challenge to fly in IMC vs fixed wing. I’d be willing to bet SAS / autopilot is standard on an AW109 though.
     
  10. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    KJFK 101827Z 10016G24KT 1SM R04R/2400V5000FT +RA BR OVC005 19/19 A3001 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 2 1/2

    KJFK 101751Z 10016G21KT 2 1/2SM -RA BR OVC006 20/20 A3003 RMK AO2 TWR VIS 3
     
  11. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    That guy is near vertical dive! But recovers and seems to be making fine power. Wonder what preceded the video?? What did the guy taking vid see that made him pull the camera out that we miss. Health issue?
     
  12. k9medic

    k9medic Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’ve got about 1000 hours in an a109e.

    Lots of things to speculate on but I know that they all have autopilot.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    RIP
     
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  14. Gerhardt

    Gerhardt En-Route

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    I can’t imagine.
     
  15. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route PoA Supporter

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  16. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    Commercial rotorcraft ticket, private fixed wing, rotorcraft instructor, no mention of instrument rating.
    upload_2019-6-11_8-29-44.png
     
  17. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Some of the comments in the articles are disturbing, one lady wonders why anyone is allowed to fly over Manhattan, should've been banned years ago.
    We need to stop doing stupid things.
     
  18. rocketflyer84

    rocketflyer84 Line Up and Wait

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    Flight was actually already banned over Manhattan in the area in question because of the TFR around Trump Tower so clearly more “rules” restricting flight in that area wouldn’t have prevented whatever unfortunate series of events unfolded yesterday.
     
  19. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    So said, this item will be key along with get-home-titis.
     
  20. Mike I

    Mike I Line Up and Wait

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    We frequently get waivers to operate within the Trump Tower TFR, but this flight had no such waiver in place.
     
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  21. Warlock

    Warlock Line Up and Wait

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    This is sad...watched a news report calling him a hero for putting it into the roof rather than the street...I have never flown that route but done it several times in a boat so I am familiar with it...my sense in the end is this guy is far from a hero...
     
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  22. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The swiss cheese layers aligned once again... severe spatial disorientation along with some form of incapacitation would be my guess. He wasn't too old for a cardiac event, which can and does happen to middle aged people who appear fit.

    Flying that kind of equipment in that kind of airspace without an instrument rating is inexplicable.
     
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  23. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    That cloud cover didn’t look like scattered scud running!!
     
  24. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Odds are, he was coming down with no idea of an impact area. The fact that he hit a rooftop and didn’t plummet into the street below, was pure luck.
     
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  25. Mike I

    Mike I Line Up and Wait

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    Nothing wrong with that kind of equipment in that kind of airspace without an IR, just not in that kind of weather.
     
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  26. Turbo-Arrow-Driver

    Turbo-Arrow-Driver Filing Flight Plan

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    Weather at LaGuardia was also IMC (ceiling 800 feet, visibility 1-1/2 miles) near time of accident. I believe rotorcraft have the same VFR minimums as fixed wing for this situation (does anyone know different?). If the post about pilot not having instrument rating is accurate, that would put VFR flight into IMC way up there on the list of possible causes.
     
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  27. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes it does.
     
  28. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    spatial D yo.
     
  29. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe so, but I am of the opinion that having the rating, and most importantly being able to use it, is insurance a professional can afford. I have seen way too much death from scud running. It is so heart breaking and unnecessary. Even with the pros, the line between flyable and un-flyable weather is obscure (forgive the expression). Get a clearance, save a life.
     
  30. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I agree.
     
  31. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    I think the Twitter video shows a large change in rotor RPM before the second uncontrolled descent. It's visible because the camera's frames per second rate stays constant, and the invisible rotor disc changes to one where the individual blades can be seen.

    That seems to indicate a mechanical failure of some sort.

    As for the "hero" aspect, it appears the pilot regained some measure of control after the initial vertical descent, but that may have been a fleeting condition. If he was able to purposely hit the building rather than crashing onto the streets, that's commendable. A crash at street level would have almost certainly caused more deaths.
     
  32. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The rotor rpm is thru the roof because he’s descending rapidly and thus off loading the blades. You can also hear the increased noise from blades either simply because of speed or blade vortex interaction (BVI).

    I suppose a mechanical failure such as a collective hardover could happen and carry him into the clouds. With 2 independent hyd systems, I it would be remote. If he did have partial control, at least to hit a building vs street, then why head towards Manhattan in the first place? Should have stayed over the water and taken your chances there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  33. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    Seems like he was diving IMC and into VMC gained control but climbed back into IMC again controlled for a bit until he didn’t.
     
  34. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

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    @Warlock Say what? I've never seen a boat at 51st and Seventh.

    -Skip
     
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  35. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That’s my observation as well. What’s confusing is to why he climbed back into the clouds. To be honest, I’ve never heard of a mech failure that forced a climb. Never met anyone who’s had a collective hard over or a complete hyd fail in an helicopter that can’t be controlled with no hydraulics. I suppose anything is possible. Heck, could have dual controls in and something got wedged beneath the other collective.

    Based on the weather and lack of instrument ticket, I think most can draw a logical conclusion of what happened.
     
  36. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    Word on the street and local media is he was waiting at the 34th Street heliport with rotors turning waiting on weather to return to home base 18 miles away. Supposedly saw a break and took off only to turn around. The videos are from after his turn around. This incident is oddly similar to the London UK 109 that flew around in fog/weather and hit a crane.
     
  37. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Once he was out I don't know why he went back up, unless he really wasn't out, or didn't look. Sad story, now there are pols demanding "unnecessary" flights be banned over Manhattan.
     
  38. Mike I

    Mike I Line Up and Wait

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    Yes, not too different from the Vauxhall incident.
     
  39. Turbo-Arrow-Driver

    Turbo-Arrow-Driver Filing Flight Plan

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    If true (since it's only "word on the street at this point"), declaring an emergency probably would have saved the pilot's life. With the reported pilot experience, he must have known what fequency to use, or was already monitoring it.
     
  40. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    It's my understanding the dive in the videos is how he exited the clouds initially. No telling what happened in the clouds prior to initiate that dive and it's subsequent affect on the pilot.
     
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