G5 HSI / G5 dual install cost in C182

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Stallhorn, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello all,

    First post here (lurked on Taptalk for a while)...

    Just wanted to find out what the install cost is for these things. I was quoted 6.5G for just the HSI + 3.5K if I want to do both. Equipment cost is about 5.1k list, so install is 4.9k.. At a shop rate of $100/hr, that is 49 hours! Does it really take that much?

    Thanks
     
  2. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And folks tried to tell me I was way off when I said two G5's were about the same cost as an Aspen...
     
  3. GBSoren

    GBSoren Pre-takeoff checklist

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    When I did my G5 AI it came to ~$3300 total BUT when I asked about doing another as as an HSI I was told that there is a lot more labor involved in that, especially if connecting to an auto pilot for the heading bug. I think if I remember his estimate was in the $4-$4500 range out the door. I'm sure a lot depends on the auto pilot it's going to be playing with.
     
  4. Sykes

    Sykes Filing Flight Plan

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    That's roughly the same quote I got for a dual G5 install in my P210N--it came to 58 hours total, which included every option that the G5 combo has available (magnetometer and interface to Cessna 400 autopilot). Of course, everything is difficult in a P210 for some reason. It's around $10k installed for me.

    In contrast, the install total quote for a single Aspen EFD1000 Pro was about 50% higher (just over $15,000 installed) than the dual G5 quote for marginally higher capability. The labor was about the same (which makes sense since it is substantially the same plumbing), but the hardware was dramatically more expensive.
     
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I would really wait, things are changing quite fast right now, I mean the Dynon skyview is becoming certified.
     
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  6. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I was given a very rough ball park of 8k for both installed, but that was over a coffee standing in the hallway, didn't get a proper quote

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  7. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Keep asking around. I got quotes to install just the G5 attitude indicator and labor quotes were $750, $800, $3,000 and $7,000. I decided to do the install myself with my A&P/IA supervising, so I've been through the install manual pretty thoroughly. The AI shouldn't take more than 5-6 hours to install, plus the leak check. The HSI is a little trickier, as the magnetometer has to be leveled and such. Probably more like 10-12 hours for a competent shop. Add pressurization or some other "wrench" in the mix and it could go higher.
     
  8. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    So no one has a first hand experience with this? I thought a lot of people would jump on it on day one and the shop above told me there is a waiting time to get it. But then again, the GAD 29 is still waiting for faa approval.
     
  9. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    The GAD29B installation docs aren't available yet, so any estimate should come with some fine print.
     
  10. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Installation will cost me about $500 for miscellaneous parts and the pitot static inspection and altimeter test which will be performed by the local repair station. Does that help?

    I think my Dad's 182 will get about 30 hours of free wrenching out of me. I'm looking forward to pulling the vacuum system out. We even have a compass rose on the airport so I will be able to do the STC calibration procedure and make new correction cards.
     
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  11. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    Nope- doesn't help - unless I'm your dad - and I don't think I am :)
     
  12. TommyG

    TommyG Cleared for Takeoff

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    For dual G5 hooked up to autopilot. I had one quote of 8k and another quote of 11k.
     
  13. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    If the $8k includes that two units and all the other boxes, that's not too bad. Many shops seem to estimate that the regular G5 attitude indicator can be installed for around $800 in labor, so you're talking $15-1600 for two of them before you've looked at a magnetometer or the autopilot box. Two G5s, with the magnetometer and GAD29B, is about $5k in parts costs. So $3k in labor to install all of it's probably about right.
     
  14. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I don't think we are buying until the GFC500 is out. In theory The GTNs, G5s and GFC500 will all need a specific software level to work correctly. For sure our GTNs do not have it, nor does the currently shipping G5/DAG29 etc. I'd like to get all softwares up to the correct version at one shot.
     
  15. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    I'll be doing it, but I'll wait for about a year to let any issues get fleshed out. I'm looking forward to it.
     
  16. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of waiting. Mechanical HSI is going out on two airplanes and a DG is precessing badly on a 3rd airplane. I have had the two HSIs taken out and "fixed" at least a couple of times each. I don't wanna do mechanical gyros and vacuum pumps anymore - especially when there are really nice alternatives for a reasonable price. A new century mechanical slaved HSI is listed at $10,949.00 ;)
     
  17. wayne

    wayne Line Up and Wait

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    Who's your Daddy? :D




    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  18. BGF_Yankee

    BGF_Yankee Line Up and Wait

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    I will be very interested in hearing your experience. I'm having similar issues in our Lance, so have been following this closely. I have received a couple of quotes so far, but the lowest one for install of the HSI with coupling to my Century III autopilot was $6,175.00. This is somewhat of a SWAG though because no one even has the equipment yet. I asked to be let know when a couple have been done.
     
  19. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

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    Will your Dad adopt me? Make it a family discount?
     
  20. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    :D
     
  21. MajorTurbulence

    MajorTurbulence Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm not sure this applies to a 182, but some legacy autopilots require input from your AI, besides the DG/HSI. So removing your vacuum system may create other unanticipated problems for you if your AI is vacuum dependent, or the electric/electronic AI replacement does not have output capability for your autopilot. This happened to me when installing my Aspen as I had to retain the vacuum system for autopilot to use the AI.
     
  22. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    In our case, we bought a reasonably priced 182 that had no legacy autopilot, no autopilot at all in fact. I was pretty sure we be putting in a brand new trio or TruTrak but the day after we bought the airplane garmin announced that GFC500. I told dad I'm really loving the 182 already lol
     
  23. bradp

    bradp Filing Flight Plan

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    I did the AI G5 in my Mooney in about 8 hours (two half days) having had no previous experience in avionics work and with the caveat that working behind a Mooney panel is not for the faint of heart.

    I pre-wired a harness for the G5 HSI to save some labor time (I don’t want to open the 430 clamshell ever again) and expect it to take another 5-8 hours to finish. The majority of that time will be spent on the autopilot interconnect and the magnetometer installation.

    Hope this helps. The G5 should be a less complex installation than an Aspen for sure.
     
  24. HDFlyer

    HDFlyer Filing Flight Plan

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    I've got a 182 and the vacuum AI is dying and I'm considering the G5. Any advice on the process of the G5 AI first, then an HSI later? Any advantage to doing both at once?
     
  25. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Right now the GAD 29B is still not available, so if you need it done, it will be a AI only. If you need the AI for the autopilot, then you'll need to fix it anyway.
     
  26. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    my understanding is no G5 configuration is set to be an attitude reference for an autopilot so any autopilot using an attitude indicator is a non-starter.

    There are three options of G5 in the DG position

    G5 as direction gyro, that's it, no HSI and no GAD needed.

    G5 as HSI, GA29 is required to display navigation data, will not interface with autopilot for heading

    G5 as HSI with legacy autopilot interface via GAD29B. These are not available or approved yet. All this will do is give you the additional option to drive an autopilot with heading bug.
     
  27. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    No need to buy the HSI kit but to dump a vacuum system obviously all vacuum powered instruments need to be removed.

    Both G5s are hooked to pitot/static so really you would be paying for that inspection twice, access busing, etc etc twice if you don't get both G5s at the same time.
     
  28. bkspero

    bkspero Pre-takeoff checklist

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    One of the legacy autopilot types listed in the Garmin G5/GAD29b/autopilot announcement (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/july/18/garmin-g5-autopilot-support) is the Century II which is one that uses attitude indicator signal as an input. So it seems like the G5 may at least be the direction source for an autopilot using an attitude indicator. I can't find enough detail online to determine if such an installation requires the old vacuum attitude indicator to provide roll input, or if it can use a G5 for that, too. Would seem to be of diminished value if it requires the old vacuum AI to remain.
     
  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I seriously doubt the G5 systems with either a GAD29 or GAD29B will be providing attitude reference for an autopilot. Even with that if you still have a an older mechanical HSI you can still replace that with G5 HSI. That is my understanding of it.

    https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=140833&start=165

    There are several posts on Beechtalk about expected shipping of the GAD29B in late September, well that date has come and gone and still none to be found. The G5 STC is still at a revision level issued way back in May, indicating there is no installation approval for it yet. Not only that but the GFC500 is no where to be found, announced way back in July. I think all these products may have been bogged down in the paperwork battle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  30. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I have a email out to Garmin to clarify this. Their website doesn't list GNS 480, however, they confirmed that 480 via GAD 29 will send head8ng and course info to century 2000 AP. If they confirm dual G5 can send attitude info, I am gett8ng rid of vacuum system

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  31. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    Never say never, and for sure, you should check with Garmin, but I’m virtually certain the G5 sends no attitude information whatsoever to any autopilot, although perhaps a converter of some kind may be released at some point. In my case, I have an Altimatic III which of course is really just a Century autopilot, and the AP looks at the original legacy ADI for attitude information. That ADI now lives in the bottom left hole where the turn coordinator once was.

    In my view, this is a reasonable solution although the vacuum system can’t be removed. That’s a negative, but not a huge negative. Also, I like the AP running on one ADI while I reference the other one to cross-check. If the plane starts doing something funky while on AP because the old gyro is starting to die, it’ll be very obvious. So I view that as a positive which offsets the rest.
     
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  32. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have something similar in the ‘kota with the Aspen. I installed a wet pump to make the system a little more robust. Cost comparison is prolly a wash with just changing the dry vacuum pump on hours.
     
  33. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    The benefit of doing two G5’s vs one Aspen is redundancy.
     
  34. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    got a confirmation from my avoinics guy that G5 AI will not provide anything to Century 2000. so at this point a dual G5 setup is more of a novelty to me, cant get rid of the vacuum system. i guess i can move the legacy AI down somewhere and only use it as a backup. the quote for installed dual G5 with GAD 29B adapter came to 9k installed.
     
  35. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Aspen is what? $14k installed?

    There is an aspect most haven't considered, right now field mechanics can buy the G5 kits with the STC and install them. Then later down the road a GFC may be added but the GFC500 appears to be a "dealer install only" path.

    I'm not sure if the GAD29B will be sold to field mechanics or if that is going to be a dealer only item.
     
  36. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    donno about Aspen. but i did get a quote (well getting quote doesnt cost money..so why not) for GFC 500. installed with 2 servo Pitch trim comes to 16.5k b/w this shop is a garmin dealer
     
  37. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I wonder how much of that is labor. I imagine the GFC will be fairly labor intensive the first few airplane installed on, locating and installing servo brackets etc. Wiring should be straight forward. I was thinking about laser marking some wires and stringing them but no data so everything would just be a guess what is needed, using the G3X manual as a guide (uses the same servos).
     
  38. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    8k labor. 8.5 k for the AP itself. looks like a bit more from the listed price, but might include the STC and anything else thats required.
     
  39. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Did that include the G5, or do you already have one?
     
  40. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    doesnt include G5. dual G5 and GAD 29B install is separate at another 9k. so total with G5s and AP comes to 25k... so much for cheap STC stuff. i have to find another shop.
     
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