G5 HSI / G5 dual install cost in C182

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Stallhorn, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    LOL! I think you are correct, however it is NOT used per STC data.

    Homebuilders seem to get pretty reliable results with it...
     
  2. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    nice!!
     
  3. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    If you're installing an antenna on your G5 purely as a backup in the case of an electrical failure, I'd seriously consider using the GA26C "portable" antenna. It works just fine, it's actually the antenna I'm using to drive the G5 in my Twin Bonanza (the only GPS source for the G5).
     
  4. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    b/w if one installs the dedicated antenna, what does it show? just the ground track?
     
  5. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    how are u connecting it?
    26C or 27C doesn't show G5 as compatible device, which is fine, as long as it works
     
  6. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    The GA26C has a BNC connector on it; that BNC connector goes directly to the BNC on the back of the G5, and the GA26C is velcroed to my glareshield. It's an approved antenna under the experimental install manual, and it works fine. I had to get a field approval for my install anyway (my airplane isn't on the AML), so I just added that to the list and the FSDO didn't object.
     
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  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Sounds like a smarter way to go than the GMU11. Noted.
     
  8. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Thanks for sharing. I will have to expplre this option and not dump 700-900 on a WAAS GPS + install
     
  9. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    There is no substitude for the GMU11. It is required to have both GPS signal and the Magnetometer for the DG/HSI stadalone or the AI with DG/HSI.

    GMU11 is only optional if installing a stand alone attidude indicator, but even then GPS signal is still required.

    Like herding cats around here lol.
     
  10. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I don't get it. Why would you be adding a WAAS GPS? What would it be connected to?
     
  11. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I think its a little odd that any of these "gyros" G5 AI or DG need GPS AT ALL.

    STC says to use a roof mounted antenna or RS232 from an approved GPS receiver (GNS/GTN/GTX).

    The experimental version are much more flexible including using portable avionics antennas or even its own built in antenna.
     
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I thought that’s what the other guy was saying, he dumped the dumb STC “engineering” and got a field approval for the smarter experimental configuration and FAA (at least where he is) agreed.

    But I think what you’re saying is that works for the AI, but not for a DG install because there’s no “compass” magenetic input without the GMU11. Correct?
     
  13. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Exactly!
     
  14. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    The STC "sort of" says that. It says you can use one of a couple "Garmin" antennas or any other antenna that meets certain specifications set forth in a table in the manual. None of those specs require roof (or other exterior) mounting. We determined that the GA26C meets the requirements in that Table, and that it was those compatible with the certified version of the G5. The field approval blessed that, too.
     
  15. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    What you did is much different. Installed as primary instruments I can't see deviating from the approved antennas listed in the STC manual, none are portable antennas.

    If installing one as a standalone backup instrument, not replacing ANY instruments in the airplane, it seems to me we can call that NORSEE equipment and just buy the $1200 one and install that via minor alteration.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  16. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I installed as a primary instrument, though not "using" the STC.

    I get the apprehension, but if you look at Section 3.4.1.2 and Table 3-9 in the install manual, it says you can use any antenna that meets the requirements set forth in that table.
     
  17. sardonux

    sardonux Pre-Flight

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    @Stallhorn did you figure out where you're gonna go based on the 3 pages of commentary, details and debate provided? I've been living a lot of the decision making for upgrading my 182F panel, happy to have a conversation with you about my experiences. For context, I had an entire panel rebuilt with Aspen PFD, Dual IFD 540s, ADS-B enablement and some other work for 60 hours' labor (at least that is what was charged to me). If you would like to discuss the details of all that work, as well as the autopilot upgrade I am in the process of acquiring and all of its' disappointments, I am happy to provide details on that too.

    Damn straight, @Clark1961 - that's why I went Aspen.
     
  18. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    To get around the problem of complete electrical failure and HSI at that point if of no use

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  19. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I got a very recent quote of dual G5 7800 installed. I believe Aspen if far more expensive than that?

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  20. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    For equivalent capability to an Aspen? My Aspen was about 11k installed with 2 ACUs and included GPSS and connection to 3 nav sources.

    As I understand it the G5 will only connect to 1 nav source in a certified install.
     
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  21. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    You never are going to get the equivalent capability: no AOA, no SV...so G5 vs Aspen is an apples vs oranges comparison.
    That said if you don’t want the extras the dual G5 is still 40% cheaper. I had 2 quotes for the same plane: $7500 G5 vs $12500 Aspen, I went with G5s. I left my Nav2 with it’s own indicator alone, I like having a second system completely isolated from the first.
     
  22. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you got a quote for 12500 on the Aspen with SV and AOA then it was a heck of a deal. Dropping the two added features would get it down to about 10k.
     
  23. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  24. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    No, it didn’t include AOA or SV, or the EA100, just a basic PRO installation.
     
  25. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Another consideration, I don't think a guy can buy an Aspen over the counter and install it using their STC, right now you can with the Garmin G5s*.

    Anyone can buy the G5s with the STC but you will need support from an Inspection Authorization and likely a CRS with a pitot static test box.
     
  26. arnoha

    arnoha Line Up and Wait

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    To go back to the issue with the GMU11, @bnt83 , would it really be such a big deal to lose it? It should be able to maintain heading without the mag input for an hour without much issue. The aircraft these are going into are unlikely to be flying much more than an hour with a complete electrical failure. And...there's still the whiskey compass available to make mental corrections with. This is certainly still a better position to be in vs. a gyro instrument it's replacing that would have a much higher failure rate and a much higher precession rate. Yeah, it has a knob to match it to the whisky compass, but that the only real advantage.
     
  27. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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  28. arnoha

    arnoha Line Up and Wait

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    So, if I'm understanding that page, the way you'd have to use it in DR mode would be to note where you are on the whiskey compass, correlate that mentally to the HSI, then use the HSI for turns with a mental compensation?
     
  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I looked in both the STC pilot's guide and the AFMS, there is no explanation on operation in DR mode. In fact, searching both PDFs turns up the word "dead" only once in each document.

    They don't even have a definitions section in them...

    http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-12_03.pdf

    http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-13_04.pdf
     
  30. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    Man, these Bahama mamas are so good down here in Spanish Wells where the 182 brought me from Maryland! Anyway, I got a quote for the dual install for a little over 10k not too far up the road in Frederick. I have put a deposit down and the airplane is going in as soon as it gets Bach from the Bahamas. I have two other airplanes that will be getting the same configuration. I can’t wait on one (old HSI has a flag permanently even though it works ok), but I can wait on the cardinal until prices drop a bit.

    The installer says he will leave the vacuum pump in place because it is an equipment that needs to stay in the plane. STC doesn’t call for its removal specifically. What does everyone think? I might just call the FSDO, but I also figure it doesn’t bother me much.
     
  31. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    If I specifically requested the vacuum system to be removed, and that was their response, I may be looking for a different shop, even though what they said about the STC was accurate.

    I can't believe they incapable of finding a return to service path for removing the vacuum system. I wouldn't expect that to fall under the same quote tho. YMMV
     
  32. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Another archer I know is getting rid of the vacuum system for the same quote. I can't get rid of it because my AP is AI based. Mine is a little more because they have to move the AI to the TC hole.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  33. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Semi related but one new TruTrak owner reported 35 hours of labor to install it, and that airplane (177) didn't have any existing autopilot to remove.
     
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  34. Baron62

    Baron62 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think the G5 HSI with battery backup is a great piece to have in a full electrical power loss. You would still have a nice readable attitude indicator with airpreed and altitude. The heading may be off, but a handheld GPS/ipad could give you your position and course.
     
  35. wrighthenry

    wrighthenry Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Just had a dual G5 system put in our 182 as part of a larger avionics upgrade. Paid $4900 for the two units and $2000 labor to install.


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  36. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    I live in the wrong part of the country. Nobody would touch our C182 for less than $10k. I still got a C172 that needs to get this installed. Where are you located? Did you use a Garmin certified shop? (Don't know what difference it makes)..
     
  37. wrighthenry

    wrighthenry Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We used Palmetto Avionics out of Greenwood SC. Russ does excellent work and has always been very reasonable on prices.
     
  38. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Remember he said it was part of a larger upgrade so his cost probably didn’t include overhead of pulling panels, etc
    That said, mine was $7500, standalone.
     
  39. wrighthenry

    wrighthenry Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We also added an Avidyne ifd-440 and Trio auto pilot. He did want us to wait until we could do it all at once as it did keep costs down some.
     
  40. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I finally pulled the trigger on this after a lot of back and forth. 2600 for install , getting an IFR cert and JPI 830 connected to 480 free with it. Relocating AI (and possibly the DG) I closed in the price. Another pilot I know is getting rid of the vacuum system, his quote is lower than mine, don't know exactly how much

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