Fixing the COVID-19 Crisis in 30 days

[Salty]

How many people is it ok to kill in order to save people from getting Covid? A complete shutdown would mean people with other issues won’t get preemptive treatment. People without cars can’t get food. So many scenarios I can’t imagine listing them all.

I can’t conceive how anyone thinks this is a good idea.

half fast still said it best “it’s like applying a tourniquet to the neck”

 

[Bob Noel]

How many people is it ok to kill in order to save people from getting Covid? A complete shutdown would mean people with other issues won’t get preemptive treatment. People without cars can’t get food. So many scenarios I can’t imagine listing them all.

I can’t conceive how anyone thinks this is a good idea.

half fast still said it best “it’s like applying a tourniquet to the neck”

It might be more accurate to say "it's like applying a tourniquet to everyone's neck"

 

[Dr. O]

I normally ignore these scrums, but (shrug)
Vitamin is the contraction of the term 'vital amino acids' - enunciate accordingly.

Masks will prevent the violent expulsion of large droplets from, sneezing, coughing, yelling, singing, etc. being flung about the room. It also prevents the dripping into the patient's open body cavity of things such as drool, nasal drip, sweat, and spittle, and flecks of dead skin - All of this is good.

Now we need to understand a bit of physics and chemistry. A Corona virus is roughly 3 nm to 4 nm in diameter. What's a nanometer you ask (well ask me so I can go on - sheeeze)
Pluck a hair off your head. look at the cross section of the end of the hair. Now divide that cross section in half 70,000 times. That is a nanometer (roughly)
The fabric in a cloth mask has a weave density comparable to a 4 nm Virion as is my assuming that a chain link fence will stop a mosquito.
The exhaled air from you escapes from under the mask mostly around the edges ( under my glasses fogging them, dimmit! ) And the final bit goes through the fabric.
If it did not you would pass out shortly.

The side light pictures of folks sneezing, showing the blast of aerosol DROPS are dramatic. It shows that a mask will stop most of that (like the particle separator on your spanking new TBM-950
The virions being expelled are invisible. Why? Because they are smaller than the wavelengths of visible light. Basic physics.
The microscope on the stand next to me will not show them either for the same reason. It requires an electron scanning microscope to visualize virions.

OK. Now to the point ( he finally got there, jeez Louise )
Assume you are in a small room. Just outside is a guy who is handed a lit cigarette. He fills his lungs with a long drag, drops the butt, slaps on a mask, steps through the door 6 feet away from you, and exhales.
Do you assume, or believe, you won't smell the cigarette smoke?
Smoke particles are thousands of times larger than a virion. The mask should stop it, right? (any non smoker knows better from experience)
If you can smell it you are engaged in second hand smoking.
And engaged in second hand virion inhalation. Annoying, eh wot?

So, will masks protect the public?
Maybe a teeny bit (shrug). Otherwise they are just virtue signalling .

Only herd immunity will protect us. We will have herd immunity when roughly 20% of the population has antibodies. In a population of 350 million that is 70 million people.
Assuming the true infection rate is ten time the reported rate, we are about half way there. Round two this fall will be about half as severe . (Fauci knows this but saying it will cost him his job)
I could make a long post on this topic (but I won't - He said)
Whew, saved

 

[Juliet Hotel]

People without cars can’t get food. So many scenarios I can’t imagine listing them all.

I understand where you're coming from but the reality is there are many options available for accessing food without a car.

 

[Salty]

I understand where you're coming from but the reality is there are many options available for accessing food without a car.

Not when there is a full lockdown. The only one I can think of is hitching a ride with a neighbor, and that would violate the lockdown.

 

[Morgan3820]

I understand where you're coming from but the reality is there are many options available for accessing food without a car.

Really? But who is delivering/processing /growing the food on a total shutdown? Or does it just magically appear like manna from heaven. You would think that with all the free time People have in isolation that they would’ve thought this through a little bit better than the people who are essential workers and going to work every day Enabling others to sit at home in isolation.
Telling everyone online that they are reckless and don’t care if their grandparents die. As they munch on food that someone else delivered to their house.
I would love to sit at home but I have to go to an actual workplace.

 

[Salty]

Really? But who is delivering/processing /growing the food on a total shutdown? Or does it just magically appear like manna from heaven. You would think that with all the free time you have an isolation but you would’ve thought this through a little bit better then the people who are actually essential workers and going to work every day around people

We are all links in the chain. You can't stock food without truck drivers, you can't drive trucks without gas, you can't fix the truck when it breaks without mechanics, mechanics can't get parts without factories and warehouses, you can't pay without banks, or at least IT keeping the credit card machines working, you can't have electricity or water without public facility workers.

Honestly, a complete shutdown is an idea straight from that fabled 4 year old we keep hearing about.

 

[Morgan3820]

We are all links in the chain. You can't stock food without truck drivers, you can't drive trucks without gas, you can't fix the truck when it breaks without mechanics, mechanics can't get parts without factories and warehouses, you can't pay without banks, or at least IT keeping the credit card machines working, you can't have electricity or water without public facility workers.

Honestly, a complete shutdown is an idea straight from that fabled 4 year old we keep hearing about.

But it works for the small brainers.

 

[weilke]

I normally ignore these scrums, but (shrug)
Vitamin is the contraction of the term 'vital amino acids' - enunciate accordingly.

Masks will prevent the violent expulsion of large droplets from, sneezing, coughing, yelling, singing, etc. being flung about the room. It also prevents the dripping into the patient's open body cavity of things such as drool, nasal drip, sweat, and spittle, and flecks of dead skin - All of this is good.

Now we need to understand a bit of physics and chemistry. A Corona virus is roughly 3 nm to 4 nm in diameter. What's a nanometer you ask (well ask me so I can go on - sheeeze)
Pluck a hair off your head. look at the cross section of the end of the hair. Now divide that cross section in half 70,000 times. That is a nanometer (roughly)
The fabric in a cloth mask has a weave density comparable to a 4 nm Virion as is my assuming that a chain link fence will stop a mosquito.
The exhaled air from you escapes from under the mask mostly around the edges ( under my glasses fogging them, dimmit! ) And the final bit goes through the fabric.
If it did not you would pass out shortly.

The side light pictures of folks sneezing, showing the blast of aerosol DROPS are dramatic. It shows that a mask will stop most of that (like the particle separator on your spanking new TBM-950
The virions being expelled are invisible. Why? Because they are smaller than the wavelengths of visible light. Basic physics.
The microscope on the stand next to me will not show them either for the same reason. It requires an electron scanning microscope to visualize virions.

OK. Now to the point ( he finally got there, jeez Louise )
Assume you are in a small room. Just outside is a guy who is handed a lit cigarette. He fills his lungs with a long drag, drops the butt, slaps on a mask, steps through the door 6 feet away from you, and exhales.
Do you assume, or believe, you won't smell the cigarette smoke?
Smoke particles are thousands of times larger than a virion. The mask should stop it, right? (any non smoker knows better from experience)
If you can smell it you are engaged in second hand smoking.
And engaged in second hand virion inhalation. Annoying, eh wot?

So, will masks protect the public?
Maybe a teeny bit (shrug). Otherwise they are just virtue signalling .

Only herd immunity will protect us. We will have herd immunity when roughly 20% of the population has antibodies. In a population of 350 million that is 70 million people.
Assuming the true infection rate is ten time the reported rate, we are about half way there. Round two this fall will be about half as severe . (Fauci knows this but saying it will cost him his job)
I could make a long post on this topic (but I won't - He said)
Whew, saved

This virus spreads predominantly via droplets, to a lesser degree through fine respiratory aerosols and contaminated surfaces. I am not aware of any data to show that individual viral particles suspended in air are at all implicated in he spread of this virus. Your analogy to a smoker who expells a fine dry aerosol has no bearing on the question whether a mask can substantially reduce the spread of the virus in a community setting.

 

[simtech]

Mh, okay.



Snipping that statement out of the entire post didn't misrepresent your position. Neither your personal experience, nor the articles you quoted support that statement. You were vit D defficient, you took steps to correct it, that's good. Other people who are vit D deficient should do the same.

Well again, what I think and I what I believe is what my thoughts are on the subject. Everyone has an opinion. I've read many articles, studies and listened to many medical doctors who say vitamin d deficiency has been a contributing factor to many diseases. And yes I've read the complete opposite with studies saying there is no correlation what so ever and that higher vitamin d levels raise risk. So which is it? Hahaha

So between the two vastly opposite opinions I chose MY side that I choose to believe. Like everything there are always two complete opposites. I guess it all comes down to motive and who is paying for the study. Truthfully I rarely 100% believe experts and see both sides then use my own brain because they can be greatly different in every subject in life. Its served me well up till this point in my life. Im not going to change your mind and you're not gonna change. Fact of life and I'm okay with that.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Really? But who is delivering/processing /growing the food on a total shutdown?

In a total shutdown, no one gets food. So a total shutdown isn't really what we're talking about here even though we're calling it that. Once we agree that we're not really talking about a total shutdown, seems a pretty easy thing to imagine that food delivery could one of the things that is still allowed to happen.

 

[bnt83]

How many people is it ok to kill in order to save people from getting Covid? A complete shutdown would mean people with other issues won’t get preemptive treatment. People without cars can’t get food. So many scenarios I can’t imagine listing them all.

I can’t conceive how anyone thinks this is a good idea.

half fast still said it best “it’s like applying a tourniquet to the neck”

Its already happening, added financial stress, food supply stress, work stress, anxiety, other environmental factors have already killed someone either by suicides or health related.

I would think we will see higher than usual death rates with each wave of disease as the baby boomers died off.

 

[denverpilot]

In a total shutdown, no one gets food. So a total shutdown isn't really what we're talking about here even though we're calling it that. Once we agree that we're not really talking about a total shutdown, seems a pretty easy thing to imagine that food delivery could one of the things that is still allowed to happen.

Then the food guy just brings dinner with a side of Covid. LOL.

Not to mention most delivery systems are at max capacity during partial shutdowns now.

Who you going to send / hire to do it? And more importantly, why should they take your risk for you if you’re not in a high risk group and paying handsomely for it?

The concept of sending others for you is just elitism thinly veiled. “I deserve to stay safe, send the peasants.”

No thanks. I’m not a politician or Hollywood star hiding in my mansion sending “the help” out for food.

Number one food item ordered from Jan 1 to June 30 on DoorDash in our Metro was a question local reporters asked last night. No idea why they asked but the results are hilarious and sad. People apparently couldn’t make this stuff at home.

Seriously. The entitled city people made others prepare and deliver this...

 

[steingar]

OK. Now to the point ( he finally got there, jeez Louise )
Assume you are in a small room. Just outside is a guy who is handed a lit cigarette. He fills his lungs with a long drag, drops the butt, slaps on a mask, steps through the door 6 feet away from you, and exhales.
Do you assume, or believe, you won't smell the cigarette smoke?
Smoke particles are thousands of times larger than a virion. The mask should stop it, right? (any non smoker knows better from experience)
If you can smell it you are engaged in second hand smoking.
And engaged in second hand virion inhalation. Annoying, eh wot?

So, will masks protect the public?
Maybe a teeny bit (shrug). Otherwise they are just virtue signalling.

Your analogy is faulty in the particulars, a real pity given the veracity of the rest of your screed (and I certainly couldn't have said it better myself). Cigarette smoke is dry, viral droplets aren't. Already loads of data that shows masks decreasing the volume and speed of ejecta. Moreover, most exhalation has a far lower velocity than that of a sneeze or cough. The stuff steaming up my spectacles won't infect the guy 6 feet away. Masks aren't perfect, but they're way way better than nothing.

Steingar, the guy who's PhD in bioscience might actually give him some credentials vis a vis pandemic related subjects.

 

[Sonoran]

Masks are effective because they effectively minimize the expulsion of droplets, and to a lesser extent aerosols. Virus particles aren’t shed from the mouth/respiratory system as bare virons, they’re shed in saliva/sputum so comparing viron size to mask pores isn’t very meaningful. Individual virons that are not in an aqueous environment and are suspended in air are much more susceptible to being deactivated quickly by various environmental factors (hydro peroxides, ozone, hydroxide radicals, UV) all of which are much more prevalent outdoors btw. Individual virons suspended in air would be so diffuse and in such low concentrations that it would be very difficult for them to cause an infection on their own.

Dosage is important in first of all achieving the threshold for sustained infection (you’re not going to get sick from inhaling one viron, it typically takes thousands of units), and secondly dosage can be a determinate of the severity of infection. The biggest doses of virus come from droplets which masks are very effective against, small doses come from aerosols, which cloth masks are only mildly effective against, but you need to be exposed to a lot more aerosols to get an infection. That means you may need to be in close proximity to a contagious individual in an indoor environment for a much longer time (likely hours) to reliably become infected by aerosols. There’s no perfect protection that‘s practical for everyday use, even N95 - 99’s can’t prevent infection if you’re exposed long enough, but cloth masks have a role to play.

 

[Bell206]

I would think we will see higher than usual death rates

You won't have to wait for each wave. The number of tracked excess deaths not associated to covid has already exceeded 65,000 for the same time period. The deputy corner which I regularly talk with had concerns of these other deaths back in March/April. These increasing excess death numbers are starting to concern various medical levels as there may be a delayed impact and in the end we may see non-covid excess deaths equaling or possibly surpassing verified covid deaths. According to him and a former CDC guy he works with if more people end up dying from covid preventative measures then actual covid infections it throws the whole pandemic actions, plans, etc. into flux.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

No thanks. I’m not a politician or Hollywood star hiding in my mansion sending “the help” out for food.

The statement you made was that some people don't have cars and are therefore unable to get to supermarkets during a total shutdown situation. I pointed out that other options are available for those folks, nothing more, nothing less. Now you're applying that comment to something else.

 

[Palmpilot]

I normally ignore these scrums, but (shrug)
Vitamin is the contraction of the term 'vital amino acids' - enunciate accordingly.

Masks will prevent the violent expulsion of large droplets from, sneezing, coughing, yelling, singing, etc. being flung about the room. It also prevents the dripping into the patient's open body cavity of things such as drool, nasal drip, sweat, and spittle, and flecks of dead skin - All of this is good.

Now we need to understand a bit of physics and chemistry. A Corona virus is roughly 3 nm to 4 nm in diameter. What's a nanometer you ask (well ask me so I can go on - sheeeze)
Pluck a hair off your head. look at the cross section of the end of the hair. Now divide that cross section in half 70,000 times. That is a nanometer (roughly)
The fabric in a cloth mask has a weave density comparable to a 4 nm Virion as is my assuming that a chain link fence will stop a mosquito.
The exhaled air from you escapes from under the mask mostly around the edges ( under my glasses fogging them, dimmit! ) And the final bit goes through the fabric.
If it did not you would pass out shortly.

The side light pictures of folks sneezing, showing the blast of aerosol DROPS are dramatic. It shows that a mask will stop most of that (like the particle separator on your spanking new TBM-950
The virions being expelled are invisible. Why? Because they are smaller than the wavelengths of visible light. Basic physics.
The microscope on the stand next to me will not show them either for the same reason. It requires an electron scanning microscope to visualize virions.

OK. Now to the point ( he finally got there, jeez Louise )
Assume you are in a small room. Just outside is a guy who is handed a lit cigarette. He fills his lungs with a long drag, drops the butt, slaps on a mask, steps through the door 6 feet away from you, and exhales.
Do you assume, or believe, you won't smell the cigarette smoke?
Smoke particles are thousands of times larger than a virion. The mask should stop it, right? (any non smoker knows better from experience)
If you can smell it you are engaged in second hand smoking.
And engaged in second hand virion inhalation. Annoying, eh wot?

So, will masks protect the public?
Maybe a teeny bit (shrug). Otherwise they are just virtue signalling .

Only herd immunity will protect us. We will have herd immunity when roughly 20% of the population has antibodies. In a population of 350 million that is 70 million people.
Assuming the true infection rate is ten time the reported rate, we are about half way there. Round two this fall will be about half as severe . (Fauci knows this but saying it will cost him his job)
I could make a long post on this topic (but I won't - He said)
Whew, saved

There's definitely some useful data in your post, but your inferences about masks disagree with those I've seen and heard from other doctors and researchers. In particular, it would be interesting to see a detailed response to the following doctor's analysis, and the sources he cites:

https://larsonsportsortho.com/are-masks-effective-against-the-coronavirus-disease/

 

[Palmpilot]

You won't have to wait for each wave. The number of tracked excess deaths not associated to covid has already exceeded 65,000 for the same time period. The deputy corner which I regularly talk with had concerns of these other deaths back in March/April. These increasing excess death numbers are starting to concern various medical levels as there may be a delayed impact and in the end we may see non-covid excess deaths equaling or possibly surpassing verified covid deaths. According to him and a former CDC guy he works with if more people end up dying from covid preventative measures then actual covid infections it throws the whole pandemic actions, plans, etc. into flux.

Do we have data on what percentage of non-covid excess deaths is due to the burden of covid cases on the hospital system?

 

[Morgan3820]

The statement you made was that some people don't have cars and are therefore unable to get to supermarkets during a total shutdown situation. I pointed out that other options are available for those folks, nothing more, nothing less. Now you're applying that comment to something else.

So you are ok with other people risking their lives to bring you food and other essential services, while you shelter in your bunker?

 

[Juliet Hotel]

So you are ok with other people risking their lives to bring you food and other essential services, while you shelter in your bunker?

I go into the office 5 days/week and have done so all along. Every one of my employees shows up every day to move the freight that keeps shelves stocked. So yes, I do not bat an eyelash at ordering takeout delivered by a foodhub driver. I do not bat an eyelash at having our online grocery order picked and bagged by store employees and brought out to our car in the parking lot. All of that can easily be done without extended close contact to anyone.

 

[Bell206]

Do we have data on what percentage of non-covid excess deaths is due to the burden of covid cases on the hospital system?

Don't know but I'll ask next time. It's my understanding it's not so much people dying due to lack of care in the hospitals but those you didn't seek out advanced care in the first place. He said in the local ERs during MAR/APR/MAY the ER non-covid traffic was almost nil with some hospitals reporting a drop of 90% vs normal ER visits. I'm sure there is some effect from covid, but what they described was more along the lines of someone having chest pains and not going to the ER due to lockdowns or general perceptions then having a heart attack and dying.

 

[chartbundle]

It's not surprising Mac & Cheese is a top delivery item. All the stores here have been low on all kinds of boxed pasta sides since this began.

 

[tspear]

How many people is it ok to kill in order to save people from getting Covid? A complete shutdown would mean people with other issues won’t get preemptive treatment. People without cars can’t get food. So many scenarios I can’t imagine listing them all.

I can’t conceive how anyone thinks this is a good idea.

half fast still said it best “it’s like applying a tourniquet to the neck”

NY, and in fact the North Eastern states had fairly complete shutdowns; large parts of Europe did also. Somehow those groups survived the shutdown. And they have so far managed to open up in a way where the chance of community spread is rather low now.
So, yeah, it is possible.

Tim

 

[denverpilot]

The statement you made was that some people don't have cars and are therefore unable to get to supermarkets during a total shutdown situation. I pointed out that other options are available for those folks, nothing more, nothing less. Now you're applying that comment to something else.

I didn’t make that statement.

 

[denverpilot]

It's not surprising Mac & Cheese is a top delivery item. All the stores here have been low on all kinds of boxed pasta sides since this began.

Interesting! Weird local supply issue!

Definitely not a problem here though, where the list is from. Nor cheese.

Also makes me wonder if @ARFlyer is still seeing his weird supply chain issues where he is.

Ours have been fine other than individual brand names coming and going. If you’re super brand loyal or sensitive, you might be grumpy occasionally here.

 

[Bell206]

large parts of Europe did also. Somehow those groups survived the shutdown. And they have so far managed to open up in a way where the chance of community spread is rather low now.

Except the EU is starting to see spikes in new covid cases and are starting to pull things back. Same for some of the Asian countries. Some are calling it a 2nd wave, but others are stating its more a 1st wave 2.0 due to the prevent measures only delayed the spread. Time will tell.

 

[tspear]

Except the EU is starting to see spikes in new covid cases and are starting to pull things back. Same for some of the Asian countries. Some are calling it a 2nd wave, but others are stating its more a 1st wave 2.0 due to the prevent measures only delayed the spread. Time will tell.

True, Europe relaxed too much. And is dealing with the consequence; so far it looks like they are managing to do so without mass shutdown. Just a lot more localized.

Tim

 

[denverpilot]

Except the EU is starting to see spikes in new covid cases and are starting to pull things back. Same for some of the Asian countries. Some are calling it a 2nd wave, but others are stating its more a 1st wave 2.0 due to the prevent measures only delayed the spread. Time will tell.

Waves probably isn’t as accurate a term as “throttling”. Waves are just kinda the side effect of rules coming and going while the line remains linear overall with kinks in it at the end.

The end remains a long way off if you calculate infections per month with current data. Far longer than typical humans will put up with more pressing things.

Some will hide, some will be out, and everything in between for a year or two, depending on ratios. Nearly all will complain.

Had a start to a song in my head this morning...

“Screechy Monkeys, scared of Covid...
Screechy Monkeys, on the Internets!”

(Sung your the time of “Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky-tacky” which is an excellent observational song itself about houses...)

Definitely no worries about me rivaling Weird Al in the song parody market, but it’s a start to a catchy tune to hum to myself, whenever I see someone losing their crap on social media about this thing. Ha.

 

[Bob Noel]

NY, and in fact the North Eastern states had fairly complete shutdowns; large parts of Europe did also. Somehow those groups survived the shutdown. And they have so far managed to open up in a way where the chance of community spread is rather low now.
So, yeah, it is possible.

Tim

As someone who lives in Maskachusetts, I don't agree that we had a "fairly complete shutdown." Yes, a lot of people are out of work. But the list of "essential" businesses is extensive. It would almost be easier to list the businesses that had to shutdown.

 

[tspear]

As someone who lives in Maskachusetts, I don't agree that we had a "fairly complete shutdown." Yes, a lot of people are out of work. But the list of "essential" businesses is extensive. It would almost be easier to list the businesses that had to shutdown.

I live outside of Boston. And the key that Baker realized following the advice of the public health officials is to close any business where there was extended contact; with a heavy emphasis on indoor contact. So, most retail stores were closed, offices, restaurants, bars...
So, the car shops can stay open, wear a mask and try and keep people 6ft apart....
Not everything needs to actually shutdown. That is what people should realize. Just mass gatherings where people are close to together, or close quarters.

Tim

 

[Bob Noel]

I live outside of Boston. And the key that Baker realized following the advice of the public health officials is to close any business where there was extended contact; with a heavy emphasis on indoor contact. So, most retail stores were closed, offices, restaurants, bars...
So, the car shops can stay open, wear a mask and try and keep people 6ft apart....
Not everything needs to actually shutdown. That is what people should realize. Just mass gatherings where people are close to together, or close quarters.

Tim

(I'm within 15 miles of Boston, near KBED.) What you described is not what I'd call a "fairly complete shutdown".

 

[tspear]

(I'm within 15 miles of Boston, near KBED.) What you described is not what I'd call a "fairly complete shutdown".

yeah, terminology is a loose term. The point is to stop transmission, especially known vectors.
I am in Waltham, so not far. I fly out of 6B6 Minuteman, much cheaper for my partners and I to keep the plane there.

Tim

 

[Bob Noel]

yeah, terminology is a loose term. The point is to stop transmission, especially known vectors.
I am in Waltham, so not far. I fly out of 6B6 Minuteman, much cheaper for my partners and I to keep the plane there.

Tim

Living 5 miles from KBED, there was a certain convenience to being based there... especially with my A&P and IA friends right on the field... especially when I was working on the base

 

[Tantalum]

So between the two vastly opposite opinions I chose MY side that I choose to believe.

But there is(are) factual answer(s) somewhere.. two people staring at a number 6 from different angles on the ground can believe whatever they want. Somebody will see a 9 and the other person will see you a 6, but whoever painted it intended to be either a 6 or a 9..

killed someone either by suicides or health related

I keep hearing about this, but has this actually happened? Have there been an increase in suicides due to people losing their jobs? The way I understand it many of the people who lost their jobs are actually faring better now with the added 600 bucks.. as far as I know I don't believe there is a mortality rate that has been computed for unemployment, or mass hospitalizations due to severe onset depression and suicidal ideation. Most people's stocks and 401K are doing well.. my barber decided not to go back to work just yet because he makes more on unemployment

Steingar, the guy who's PhD in bioscience might actually give him some credentials vis a vis pandemic related subjects.

Thank you. I actually "liked" both of your posts and the cigarette analogy would be very fair if it wasn't for the difference in droplets vs smoke. I do believe though that herd immunity will be the only way out of this, or a vaccine. I think the whole idea about flattening the curve was to slow the rate of spread so that we don't overwhelm hospitals..



There is a middle ground here somewhere. Locking everybody in their houses for weeks at a time and stopping the country is madness. Also allowing everybody to go about their days as usual is probably not the smartest either.. it is too bad people can no longer find middle ground compromise. Just about every other developed country in the world made it through this.. and their spikes are in the single or double digits, not in the thousands

PS having your Uber eats driver leave a container of food on your front door is far as contact than going and sitting in a restaurant. Doesn't make it impossible to get but it sure reduces the chances

PPS.. thought this was a good analogy. Clearly what it lacks is the political nuance of the current health situation, but it makes a fair point overall

 

[MauleSkinner]

At least somebody is admitting “business as usual” in good service.

PPS.. thought this was a good analogy. Clearly what it lacks is the political nuance of the current health situation, but it makes a fair point overall

 

[bflynn]

Taking a page from Sweden...

Their fatality rate is about 57 per 100,000. Ours is around 45 per 100,000.

So why is Sweden doing better? Because they are done. Right now they have one or two people dying per day. We still have 1500 and it is accelerating. In less than two months, we will be worse off than them.

plenty of evidence that trying to hide everyone from the virus is exactly the wrong thing to do.

 

[Bob Noel]

So why is Sweden doing better? Because they are done. Right now they have one or two people dying per day. We still have 1500 and it is accelerating. In less than two months, we will be worse off than them.
....

um? 1500? where are you getting that number?

 

[bflynn]

sorry, misread this. 1144 turned into 1490 between the screen and my eyes.

But Google told me, so it has to be true, right?

squawk 7500 N12345

 

[wsuffa]

Then the food guy just brings dinner with a side of Covid. LOL.

Not to mention most delivery systems are at max capacity during partial shutdowns now.

Who you going to send / hire to do it? And more importantly, why should they take your risk for you if you’re not in a high risk group and paying handsomely for it?

The concept of sending others for you is just elitism thinly veiled. “I deserve to stay safe, send the peasants.”

No thanks. I’m not a politician or Hollywood star hiding in my mansion sending “the help” out for food.

Number one food item ordered from Jan 1 to June 30 on DoorDash in our Metro was a question local reporters asked last night. No idea why they asked but the results are hilarious and sad. People apparently couldn’t make this stuff at home.

Seriously. The entitled city people made others prepare and deliver this...

Like this, Nate?

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...llowed-to-quarantine-at-separate-nsw-location