Fixing the COVID-19 Crisis in 30 days

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steingar said:
...The one piece of really good news is after the vaccines come out our worries will decrease immeasurably. Influenza can easily switch coat proteins, Coronaviruses can't. Any vaccine against any strain of coronavirus should counteract all of them. Moreover, it is unlikely that the virus can mutant to avoid the vaccine. That would mean wholesale changes to its coat protein, which is its secret weapon in attaching to our respiratory tracts....
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Best news I've had in months! :)
 
Bob Noel said:
or maybe not

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-mutation-explained.html
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Assuming I follow the articles correctly. This is a much lower mutation rate influenza. As such, it looks like we could steadily improve the efficacy of the vaccine for COVID-19 over time; where with influenza we are always chasing the rabbit.
However, when the vaccine is available, this will not be a light switch, get a shot and suddenly all is good. So far all vaccines I have read up on are two shot programs separated by a month; with antibodies, B-Cell and T-Cell responses taking another few weeks for the younger population and likely longer for the elderly. In addition, there is no solid information on how long the vaccine will last.
So combine that with we have 330 Million people in the USA; and a limited number of medical professionals to administer said vaccine, with most vaccine companies only promising a 100 million dosses by year end; and usually around 500 million a year after, we could be looking at a year to vaccine 2/3 of the population (500 million / 2 doses = 250 million people / 330 million in USA = roughly 2/3). Therefore, you may want to adjust your expectations on how the vaccine will "restart" normal...
Then consider if the efficacy of the vaccine is only good for a few months.... we will be on a treadmill for a number of years as anti-vaxers and others who do not get shots keep the virus alive in our own communities; combined with international aspects....

Tim
 
simtech said:
Sounds typical of...oh wait dont want go there.
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That's lazy of you... you can't argue the fact, so you impugn me instead? You're better than that, I think.

But here scroll down to the section that says what are health defects of vitamin D deficiency.
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I see that... it says Vitamin D is related to a number of conditions, it does NOT support your statement:

chronic vit d deficiency is the underlying cause of most illness and cancers.
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make someone sound completely and utterly uniformed.
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Uh... what uniform are you wearing tonight? Jake at State Farm is wearing khakis... maybe that's enough?

Paul (not afraid to use my real name mode)
 
Bob Noel said:
or maybe not

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-mutation-explained.html
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The article describes what we genetics types call a point mutation. It is a change from one amino acid to a very similar amino acid, which is unlikely to change the structure of the coat protein markedly. Here's the rub. When you develop antibodies to the virus you develop all kinds. They bind to all sorts of little surfaces (called epitopes). Even if one of those surfaces changes, the rest stay the same. One antibody might not be able to bind anymore, but the rest and and will signal for the destruction of the virus.

Influenza is very different in that one strain of influenza can swap coat proteins with another. You get a new strain that your immune system doesn't recognize at all. Coronaviruses can't do that.
 
steingar said:
Influenza is very different in that one strain of influenza can swap coat proteins with another. You get a new strain that your immune system doesn't recognize at all. Coronaviruses can't do that.
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I thought it was this specific Coronavirus that cannot make such a change. It also is super large for a virus.

Tim
 
PaulMillner said:
That's lazy of you... you can't argue the fact, so you impugn me instead? You're better than that, I think.



I see that... it says Vitamin D is related to a number of conditions, it does NOT support your statement:





Uh... what uniform are you wearing tonight? Jake at State Farm is wearing khakis... maybe that's enough?

Paul (not afraid to use my real name mode)
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Not lazy at all my friend, I just speak how I see it.

But its not surprising most don't think Vitamin D deficiency causes issues. Matter fact others believe the same:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/198...ition, there is a,as well as multiple myeloma.

And I quote "Because most physicians do not appreciate the role of vitamin D deficiency in predisposing the development of cancer, we have written this important report as a wake-up call to physicians and other healthcare workers in documenting the relationship of vitamin D deficiency and cancer."

Here is another: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440113/

And I quote from it "Many studies have demonstrated that Vitamin D has multiple effects on biological processes regulating calcium and phosphorus metabolism as well as effects on cell proliferation, differentiation, apoptosis, immune regulation, genome stability, and neurogenesis. Recent studies have also found that Vitamin D is closely associated with cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, cancers, autoimmune diseases, infectious diseases, and others [1, 2]. Many experts now believe that Vitamin D (especially with biological activities of 1, 25(OH)2D3) should be considered a hormone rather than one of the conventional nutritional vitamins."

Do I believe Vitamin D deficiency causes all these problems, sure kinda seems like. Not saying its the end all be all but it is clearly associated as many studies show that. When it comes to one's health we have to educate ourselves and take information from all sources and choose what's best for us. Yeah there are some extreme whacko's I get it, but there is a reason why second opinions exist.

Most docs stick with what they are taught and are afraid to go outside the box, some are functional medical docs who go outsidethe box in thinking. Everybody has a different view as well as is evident in this thread between professionals.

I also know some/most will look at studies and tear them apart, I do (or say it still doesn't prove my point). I dont trust studies because they are usually done with motivation and money to direct a certain outcome. I wont change your mind and you won't change mine, I'm okay with that. I also feel I've gone off topic..hahaha but hey prove to me its not an underlying cause.....wait right.....you weren't the one to make such a claim.

Also I'm shirtless wearing gym shorts right now and my name is Vinny, nice to meet you Paul. And ill let you proof read this for me and point out my mistakes like before since typing on a smart phone is kinda annoying.
 
steingar said:
It is a change from one amino acid to a very similar amino acid, which is unlikely to change the structure of the coat protein markedly.
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Curious. So how does the 6 different "types" of COVID revealed in a UK study below fit into the amino acid vs coat protein discussion? Do you think the different symptoms are caused at the virus level or due to the underlying health of the patient, or both?
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/six-distinct-types-of-covid-19-identified
 
simtech said:
...I dont trust studies because they are usually done with motivation and money to direct a certain outcome....
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Two questions:

1. What makes you think so?

2. If you don't trust studies, where do you get your information about scientific issues?
 
Palmpilot said:
Two questions:

1. What makes you think so?

2. If you don't trust studies, where do you get your information about scientific issues?
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1. Because one study will say one outcome while another says something 180 degrees different. Its all studies from cars to medical to you name it. Ultimately look who funds the study and what they believe and that will usually, not always, bear the outcome. Just what I beleive..

2. I still look at studies, but both sides and do some more research to form my conclusion. Not 100% though I admit as with anything that we don't 100% know there is an element of trust and belief.

Not at all saying all studies are this way but to me most seem that way just from what I've read along the way. Maybe I'm wrong just going off what I see but I do know money has its hands in everything!
 
Bell206 said:
Curious. So how does the 6 different "types" of COVID revealed in a UK study below fit into the amino acid vs coat protein discussion? Do you think the different symptoms are caused at the virus level or due to the underlying health of the patient, or both?
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/six-distinct-types-of-covid-19-identified
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I suspect this. study will never reach a decent peer reviewed journal since it is nearly asinine. There aren't 6 different types of virus, there are 6 different responses that they catalogue. We already knew the virus hit some harder than others.


tspear said:
I thought it was this specific Coronavirus that cannot make such a change. It also is super large for a virus.

Tim
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I don't recall COVID being all that large, honestly. I worked on CMV, Cytomegalovirus, which as the name implies is indeed a large virus. Causes about a quarter of all mononucleosis cases.
 
steingar said:
I suspect this. study will never reach a decent peer reviewed journal since it is nearly asinine. There aren't 6 different types of virus, there are 6 different responses that they catalogue. We already knew the virus hit some harder than others.
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Study actually looks good from the layman perspective. The media mangled it pretty bad.
The study talks about 6 different symptom presentation clusters. No where does it say types of COVID-19 or multiple virus. In my scan of the study, it was always symptom presentation clusters.
Note: the study is out of a well known medical school. So I would expect they get such basic items correct.

Tim
 
simtech said:
1. Because one study will say one outcome while another says something 180 degrees different. Its all studies from cars to medical to you name it. Ultimately look who funds the study and what they believe and that will usually, not always, bear the outcome. Just what I beleive..
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What you believe is, in many cases, inaccurate. At least when it comes to studies used for government approval pharmaceutical products. Those studies are required to be conducted by outside labs. And the the design of the study as well as its execution has to be approved by government agencies. So you can believe that studies all contain skewed bias data if you want, but you'd be wrong.

If company x designs a study in order to it insure that study is guaranteed to produce the data they're looking for, the government likely won't except that study in their submission. And if they do manage to get their bogus data by the government and their product gets approved because of it, they can expect to be sued by their competitors company y and company z almost immediately. That's just reality.

As many reasons as you may have to want to make sure the product produced by company x is a good safe product, the folks at company y and company z have a few billion more reasons to want to prove it isn't a good safe product. So if they can prove it isn't safe and/or effective and thus get it pulled off the market, they will.
 
tspear said:
Study actually looks good from the layman perspective. The media mangled it pretty bad.
The study talks about 6 different symptom presentation clusters. No where does it say types of COVID-19 or multiple virus. In my scan of the study, it was always symptom presentation clusters.
Note: the study is out of a well known medical school. So I would expect they get such basic items correct.

Tim
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Tim, to get into a top tier journal you have to have something new and exciting. COVID is certainly timely and exciting, but the fact that it affects different people differently just isn't.
 
steingar said:
Tim, to get into a top tier journal you have to have something new and exciting. COVID is certainly timely and exciting, but the fact that it affects different people differently just isn't.
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Heck other than the 0.3% death rate, the more they learn about it the less “exciting” it is. Bog standard coronavirus with a weird trick up its sleeve.

Likes to go after mostly the edge of the herd and kill the host with the occasional whack of a healthy herd member rapidly.

But seemingly less “novel” every day.

A little over a year ago I found a fun article about a guy who submitted various completely whacked papers to all the journals. He got one published in a traditional biggie and seven in what I would call “medium high” quality ones.

He made sure the theses were all completely false fiction he made up but that they appealed to the PC crowd. Had reviewers stumbling over themselves to get their names on them as peer reviewers.

Took a long time since they all went through “the process” and he kept his mouth shut the entire time. By the time he told them all they’d been had, the biggie barely published a retraction and none of the others did. LOL.

The “publish or die” mentality along with PC virtue signaling adds some very strange and hard to remove strong but misguided motivations from that whole process overall.

Wish I had kept the link for “modern” times. LOL. Was just a fun late night read in 2019...

Lord only knows what various broke people will be saying for money in the next couple of years both in papers and on witness stands. Padding the retirement fund as “expert witnesses” will be important to a few, personally. Even less / no peer review in that process.

And most lawyers aren’t going to deeply cross examine anybody and bore a jury out of their skulls. Great way to completely lose them and the “random Covid business liability cases” about to hit.
 
P51P28 said:
US economy completely destroyed from a virus with a current survival rate of 97%. Think about that for a minute.
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Has the economy been completely destroyed? Where I live, folks are buying expensive toys like they're going out of style and houses are selling above asking price as soon as they hit the market. Those aren't really things I'd expect to see in an economy that's been destroyed.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Has the economy been completely destroyed? Where I live, folks are buying expensive toys like they're going out of style and houses are selling above asking price as soon as they hit the market. Those aren't really things I'd expect to see in an economy that's been destroyed.
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Sorry...severely wounded. We are certainly not in good position as a result. I'm optimistic that it will recover somewhat but it will take some time.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Has the economy been completely destroyed? Where I live, folks are buying expensive toys like they're going out of style and houses are selling above asking price as soon as they hit the market. Those aren't really things I'd expect to see in an economy that's been destroyed.
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If you think the economy is healthy, then boy do you have a shock coming to you.
 
Several posts have been deleted from this thread and warnings given. Remember that discussion about the medical aspects of Covid is allowed, but not political bickering.
 
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