Concealed Handgun License

I am sorry for your loss.

Yes, as I said, those home invasions do happen, no doubt. But having unsecured firearms in different places of a home creates the risk of arming an intruder who otherwise may not have been armed. This was a case in MN a couple of years ago where a drunk who had gotten stuck in the ditch in front of a house murdered the homeowner with his own shotgun and severly injured the wife. The 13 year old son was on the phone with police dispatch when the intruder found him and finished him off as well:

http://www.startribune.com/local/11556036.html

Add to that the hundreds of cases every year where harm is done accidentally with unsecured firearms and the risk/benefit ratio of having them distributed accross the home rather than in a quick-access safe or shotgun lock starts to look pretty bleak.

So what's next? We give up our guns for safety from accidents? We let the govt tell us what light bulbs to buy or when we can use our cell phones?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". Benjamin Franklin
 
21 feet sounds pretty draconian. That article mentions that 21 feet is not enough to stop a knife attack for most officers / situations. If an officer cannot meet that criteria most of the time, how can a citizen who shoots every other month be expected to defend him/herself

Unlike a cop, I can walk around the street in winter with my hands in my jacket pocket, pointing a pistol anywhere in an arc 45 deg. in front of me while I walk down the dirty streets of Minneapolis...finger resting on the trigger guard.
 
It's a calculated risk, just like single engine IFR. We have no kids, so that is one less concern, and as to arming the BG, the guns "around" are not were they will be found before the dog alarm goes off and one of the residents opens fire on the intruder.

How does that method work if you are not at home or if you return to your home while the intruder is inside ?

So what's next? We give up our guns for safety from accidents? We let the govt tell us what light bulbs to buy or when we can use our cell phones?

Did I mention the goverment, regulations or anything of that nature ?

I merely suggest to think those strategies through before employing them. Gun accidents are a bit like reading the Nall report. It's the same causes over and over again. The only good news is that accidental gun injuries have been decreasing over the years while GA deaths and injuries remain constant.
 
By the same reasoning, should i not keep knives in the kitchen because someone could break in to my home and use my own kitchen knife to kill me? Or i should not keep a hammer in my garage because i could be bludgeoned with it by an intruder? Just because some evil person could possibly do me harm by breaking the law doesn't mean I should give up my right to bear arms or defend myself.
 
Or i should not keep a hammer in my garage because i could be bludgeoned with it by an intruder?

Smart folks lock their oxy-torch into their safe so they dont give a burglar the tools to break open the safe. Same concept.
 
But having unsecured firearms in different places of a home creates the risk of arming an intruder who otherwise may not have been armed.

"Secured" does not have to mean "inaccessible". It would indeed be pretty stupid, in most cases, to have a 12 gauge sitting next to the door or a pistol on top of a dresser. But if I am in the bedroom (upstairs), an intruder is breaking in on the ground floor and all the artillery is safely locked away in the basement gun safe... I'm going to feel pretty stupid. That's why dealers do a brisk business selling small, quick access gun safes.
 
Any plainclothes officer walking around by himself at night on dark streets of the inner city who doesn't have one hand in his jacket pocket holding his back up snubby, is likely to have a short career...

I live in the country, off the road... It is pitch black at night... We do not have a gun in every room.. We do have motion detectors around the house... We do look before opening the door...
Remember the purpose of the police is to show up after a crime is committed, count the bodies, and investigate...
Those who believe that they are not responsible for protecting their family because the police prevent crime live in a different universe from you and me...

denny-o
 
How does that method work if you are not at home or if you return to your home while the intruder is inside ?

So where do you draw the line on potential weapons in the house? There is a minimal level of paranoia that will turn absolutely every object inside your house into a weapon that can be used to murder you. The slats for a bedframe in the face can kill you just as easily as a baseball bat. Kite string or an extension cord is a garrote. The back end of a fire extinguisher in the face doesn't sound like a lot of fun to be on the receiving end of. A mirror can be turned into shards of sharp glass to cut your throat. A toolbox is crammed full of objects to bonk you over the head with or poke a hole through you. The typical american kitchen has enough weapons to start a major tribal war with on most primitive South Pacific islands. A gun is just another tool, not something special. Your only real hope is to have absolutely no objects of any kind in the house (bare walls, no toilet, no windows, no lightbulbs) and hope the hooligan doesn't bring anything including their own fists.

Some of the posts on this thread are making my rethink my stand on gun control.:rolleyes:

Gun control or gun prohibition?
Gun prohibition removes your ability to defend yourself with a projectile weapon however it doesn't stop the bad guy from bringing his own. The hooligan will still have his gun because he does not play by the rules you do.
Gun control is the ability to put the second bullet through the hole that the first bullet made.
 
So where do you draw the line on potential weapons in the house? There is a minimal level of paranoia that will turn absolutely every object inside your house into a weapon that can be used to murder you. The slats for a bedframe in the face can kill you just as easily as a baseball bat. Kite string or an extension cord is a garrote. The back end of a fire extinguisher in the face doesn't sound like a lot of fun to be on the receiving end of. A mirror can be turned into shards of sharp glass to cut your throat. A toolbox is crammed full of objects to bonk you over the head with or poke a hole through you. The typical american kitchen has enough weapons to start a major tribal war with on most primitive South Pacific islands. A gun is just another tool, not something special. Your only real hope is to have absolutely no objects of any kind in the house (bare walls, no toilet, no windows, no lightbulbs) and hope the hooligan doesn't bring anything including their own fists.

Merely repeating a point that didn't make sense the first time around doesn't make it any more valid.

You obviously value a gun over lets say a screwdriver when it comes to a choice of weapons, the equation is no different for the burglar. I assume you have some good quality firepower in your home, if you leave it accessible to the burglar, you are now faced with an ambush situation where your opponent has equal or better firepower (e.g. by getting his hands on your shotgun while you only have your concealed carry piece while returning into the home). Doesn't strike me as a good strategy.

Guns are as good or better than cash to a burglar. Many of them are drug addicts, a 'clean' gun from the home of a good citizen is easily converted into drugs. We all agree that it is the 'illegal guns' that cause most of the gun violence, in addition to straw-buys, theft from cars and burglary are the principal method how 'good guns' are turned into 'illegal guns'. The fewer guns make that change, the lower the political and judicial pressures on the second amendment.
 
Or ringing someone's doorbell...

With simple technology affordable to everyone, it is not difficult to see who is outside your door. Accidents, and mistakes do happen, but you can minimize the threat by knowing who is out there. However, criminals have disguised themselves as police in the past for the purpose of home invasion. I don't know how you stop that one.
 
However, criminals have disguised themselves as police in the past for the purpose of home invasion. I don't know how you stop that one.

Mostly in raids on opposing drug houses. Not much of a tactical advantage to doing so in a residential home invasion.
 
With simple technology affordable to everyone, it is not difficult to see who is outside your door. Accidents, and mistakes do happen, but you can minimize the threat by knowing who is out there. However, criminals have disguised themselves as police in the past for the purpose of home invasion. I don't know how you stop that one.
I was only being sarcastic. I don't worry about it as the ringer or the answerer.
 
I was only being sarcastic. I don't worry about it as the ringer or the answerer.

OK. :D

I've got a moat with crocodiles around my house, and someone else suggested I install a trapdoor which drops them into a swimming pool of sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads. Or at least ill-tempered Sea Bass.

:D
 
I've got a moat with crocodiles around my house, and someone else suggested I install a trapdoor which drops them into a swimming pool of sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads. Or at least ill-tempered Sea Bass.

Don't forget to put down the 4x4 sheet of plywood with all the 4 inch nails hammered through it on the doorstep at night..nails point up where they will do some good. One at the bottom of the steps going to the second floor along with a smaller one halfway up the steps would be a good idea too.


Too much paranoia going on about home invasions and being attacked. If one is really that paranoid, one should not be living in the city in the first place. Here's what you really need to keep your typical non nuclear missile and non heavy construction machinery toting hooligans out of your stuff:

http://weburbanist.com/2010/07/25/nuclear-family-housing-life-in-a-missile-silo-home/
http://www.realtor.com/blogs/2011/11/29/nuclear-missile-silo-home-turned-luxury-listed/
Heck, they're not much more expensive than a new house in Criminalsville nowadays.

Only the old USSR, the USA and someone with a lot of heavy machinery have the ability to break in and even then they likely have to vaporize the entire county to break the lock..which will probably be welded shut at that point.
 
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You don't pull the gun without pulling the trigger.

It is an absolute last resort.

Pulling it as a show of force is bad mojo.

In Florida it's considered brandishing and is illegal.

I've had a CCW for several years and carry frequently, but not all the time. It just depends on where I am going. I carry a Kimber Pro Carry II .45 ACP with Wilson Combat Mags. I own only one other handgun and it is not suitable for carry, so the Kimber is all I carry. I would like to have something smaller and lighter for summertime carry though.

Florida does not currently allow open carry beyond one's own property, but has expanded the castle doctrine to include anyplace one has a legal right to be. Additionally, Florida does not recognize a so-called duty to retreat in any place one has a legal right to be.
 
We all agree that it is the 'illegal guns' that cause most of the gun violence...
No, we don't all agree. A gun is an inanimate object, it causes nothing.

Now the criminals who steal them, fence them and use them for ill intent - THEY cause "gun violence".
 
Those who believe that they are not responsible for protecting their family because the police prevent crime live in a different universe from you and me...

denny-o

When seconds count the police are minutes away.
 
Florida does not currently allow open carry beyond one's own property, but has expanded the castle doctrine to include anyplace one has a legal right to be. Additionally, Florida does not recognize a so-called duty to retreat in any place one has a legal right to be.


I'm going to be sending off my my Florida Non-Res shortly . With it , I can pick up CC in Delaware :)
 
I'm going to be sending off my my Florida Non-Res shortly . With it , I can pick up CC in Delaware :)
Bear in mind that carrying in states with reciprocity agreements, one must conform to the laws in that state. My Florida permit is a concealed weapons permit which allows nearly anything as long as it is concealed, but in neighboring Georgia I can carry a firearm only.
 
How does that method work if you are not at home or if you return to your home while the intruder is inside ?

If I'm not home it's just stuff, I'm insured.

If the burglar is there, well I'm not walking into my house if it's been broken into, I'm getting back into the car pulling out onto the street and calling 911
 
In Florida it's considered brandishing and is illegal.

I've had a CCW for several years and carry frequently, but not all the time. It just depends on where I am going. I carry a Kimber Pro Carry II .45 ACP with Wilson Combat Mags. I own only one other handgun and it is not suitable for carry, so the Kimber is all I carry. I would like to have something smaller and lighter for summertime carry though.

Florida does not currently allow open carry beyond one's own property, but has expanded the castle doctrine to include anyplace one has a legal right to be. Additionally, Florida does not recognize a so-called duty to retreat in any place one has a legal right to be.

I'm pretty sure it's brandishing here as well..

Open carry, until everyone is doing it, is crazy and just puts a bulls eye on your back.

I carry a Keltec PF9 during the warm months, sometimes I'll carry a Glock 19 in the winter time.
 
I'm pretty sure it's brandishing here as well..

Open carry, until everyone is doing it, is crazy and just puts a bulls eye on your back.

I carry a Keltec PF9 during the warm months, sometimes I'll carry a Glock 19 in the winter time.


But not everyone is going to start carrying openly all at once. The only way for people to become accustomed to law abiding people carrying firearms is see them do it.

I was in the grocery store just a few weeks ago and saw some guy carrying openly even though Florida does not yet permit it. He engaged me in conversation about the shirt I was wearing at the time. (colorful print shirt with lots of airplanes purchased at Valient Air Command gift shop in Titusville.) He seemed a bit nervous and talkative, and my impression was that perhaps he was attempting to challenge the law. I never asked him about the Glock on his hip, nor did I witness anyone making a stink about it, including the LEO serving as night security there.
 
Unlike a cop, I can walk around the street in winter with my hands in my jacket pocket, pointing a pistol anywhere in an arc 45 deg. in front of me while I walk down the dirty streets of Minneapolis...finger resting on the trigger guard.
That sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I'd suggest you keep it holstered until you need it and intend on using it.
 
> How many people walk around with a voice recorder already running?

Many times, my iPhone is recording audio. Most everyone is desensitized to
cellphone headsets and never realize that they may indeed be, being recorded.

Quite helpful whenever needing to resolve a he said, she said matter.
 
The little digital recorders of today are barely fatter than an old fashioned ink pen in your shirt pocket...
Set for low or medium fidelity one of those can record an entire 12 or 16 hour day...
If nothing interesting happened you erase the memory and and are good to go for the next day...
Shucks, with the few hundred dollars it costs for a terrabyte hard drive you can download the recorder and save every day of the rest of your life... You might become an exhibit in the Smithsonian a hundred years from now...

denny-o
 
> How many people walk around with a voice recorder already running?

Many times, my iPhone is recording audio. Most everyone is desensitized to
cellphone headsets and never realize that they may indeed be, being recorded.

Quite helpful whenever needing to resolve a he said, she said matter.

Just like carrying is subject to local law, so is recording people.

In maryland, it is a felony to 'surrepticiously' record a conversation. So unless you either tell everyone you encounter that you are recording or you have it tattooed on your forehead, you run a risk of catching an actual charge in an encounter with the police or another private individual who has an interest to see you in the state pen for 3 years (this law does not apply to typical loss-prevention video equipment or to filming a person in plain view in public).
 
Too much paranoia going on about home invasions and being attacked. If one is really that paranoid, one should not be living in the city in the first place.


ROCKLIN (CBS13) — If you’ve pulled the trigger on a new firearm this holiday season, join the club.

As in your neighborhood shooting club, because faster than a speeding bullet, guns are going out the door.

Well, not right away, of course — there is that 10-day waiting period, 11 here at TDS Guns in Rocklin, where Bob Norgard wasn’t caught off-guard.

He’s making his purchase today so he’ll have his firearm under the Christmas tree as he joins a growing number of people who say they’re simply “doing what they need to do to protect themselves and their family.”

This surge in gun sales — the best holiday sales season in three years, according to the Firearms Dealers Association — got a shot in the arm on Black Friday.

“Black Friday sales were off the charts this year,” a TDS employee said.

FBI stats show the number of background checks done on Black Friday three years ago pales in comparison to the number done this year — a 32-percent jump.

“People are just coming in to protect themselves,” the employee said. “I think there’s just a lot of things going on in the world that are getting people thinking.”

More women are buying guns than ever before as criminals get more desperate.

Like break-ins while people are at home sleeping. It’s happened twice in a few weeks in a Rocklin neighborhood.


I don't think being worried about home invasions is being paranoid. It happens all the time, and not by mistake or by police. Even in liberal California, gun sales are off the charts this year.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/firearm-sales-way-up-during-holiday-season/
 
In maryland, it is a felony to 'surrepticiously' record a conversation.
The laws do vary. Here in Ohio, only one party to a conversation needs to be aware of the recording for it to be legal. That one party can be the guy wearing the recorder.
 
Guns are as good or better than cash to a burglar. Many of them are drug addicts, a 'clean' gun from the home of a good citizen is easily converted into drugs. We all agree that it is the 'illegal guns' that cause most of the gun violence, in addition to straw-buys, theft from cars and burglary are the principal method how 'good guns' are turned into 'illegal guns'. The fewer guns make that change, the lower the political and judicial pressures on the second amendment.

So you want to limit the guns or ban them outright? Australia banned all semi-auto guns in 1997. Here's what we can expect if that were to happen...

"The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)"

"Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease in murders; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia:
assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women."

Liberals would love to push through a gun ban similar to Australia.... No thanks, I'll keep my guns thank you.
 
"In maryland, it is a felony to 'surrepticiously' record a conversation....this law does not apply to typical loss-prevention video equipment or to filming a person in plain view in public"

Tell that to Anthony Graber, a biker who recorded an off-duty cop w/ his helmet cam. The idiot cop pulled out his handgun to arrest Mr. Graber before identifying himself as a police officer and then charged him for recording him w/o his consent....all of which took place on a public highway.
 
I think the charges were dropped in the case against the motorcycle helmet cam guy. I saw it and it was ridiculous. Obviously a motorcycle on a highway is a public place. Police cruiser cameras are legal because they are considered to be filming in a public place.

The police can bring charges against someone and attempt to prosecute them on the taxpayer's dime. This sometimes leads to frivolous legal action like this. For a private citizen to take legal action, it requires a considerable investment of time and money.

I know police can be held responsible for things like wrongful arrest, but in the case of the motorcycle guy, does he have any legal recourse against the police for his losses in this matter?
 
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Reports like that are not all that unusual. There are also regular reports of ordinary people successfully defending themselves, their families, and their homes using guns in their homes, cars, purses and waistbands. But... none of that will matter to those who believe we shouldn't be able to own, carry or use.

There are simply two sides to this, and neither will ever convince the other to see things their way.
 
So you want to limit the guns or ban them outright?

Never said that.

I said that for those of us who own them, it is in our best interest to keep them out of the hands of criminals. The cost do so in useability and coin is minimal.
 
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