Compass Deviation Card AWOL

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Deelee, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Deelee

    Deelee Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Deelee
    Ok, asking for a friend.... And this friend did some light googling and was a bit confused about several of the answers since some of them conflict. So this friend asked me to post this here...

    Friend has a new-to-him airplane that came with a compass deviation card. Friend flew the plane back home, did a few flights then noticed that the compass deviation card was no longer in its rightful place under the magnetic compass. He looked high and low for it and can't find it.

    Friend wants to know what the procedure is for getting a new one created. Friend has a WAAS GPS and an EFD - no vacuum DG anymore... so no DG to set every time the stupid thing precesses like in his old 172 he used to fly and it would precess every 10 damn minutes... okok digression...

    Pretty sure my buddy can't just create his own card based on headings off the DG or the EFD's heading. If he can't do that, how much money is it going to cost to pay someone to do this? And can an A&P do this or does it have to go somewhere fancy.

    Friend is pretty sure his aircraft also won't be able to be used for IR checkride that he might be planning in the near future. Friend is pretty bummed that he will probably have to spend money on getting this done....
     
  2. iamtheari

    iamtheari Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,993
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ari
    Your friend needs better friends. My friend’s friend is an A&P so my friend’s compass correction card cost him about a half case of cheap beer. (Fun fact: A&P’s don’t like expensive beer.)
     
    Bobanna likes this.
  3. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    25,069
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    What lost compass card?
     
    Skyrys62 and Huckster79 like this.
  4. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,324
    Location:
    New York City
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skip Miller
    Check the plane’s maintenance logs. I heard (that means I could be wrong) that if an A&P “swings the compass” to create a new deviation card, he should also record the data in the log. Just copy it.

    -Skip
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    Bobanna and guzziguy like this.
  5. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OneCharlieTango
    Legally, it requires a compass swing, which can only be done by an avionics tech. I know a guy who said he'd lost a compass correction card, who got a blank one and wrote a bunch of numbers on it. It looked a lot like the one he lost.
     
  6. iamtheari

    iamtheari Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,993
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ari
    It sounds like my friend over-paid his A&P with the cheap beer! :)
     
  7. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,343
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    FYI: A&P can swing/calibrate a mag compass. Also, a CRS with the proper ratings can swing/calibrate a mag compass.
     
  8. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OneCharlieTango
    I thought so, but my A&P said he couldn't. Maybe he was just trying to get rid of me!
     
  9. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    7,614
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Couldn’t because he’s not authorized, or couldn’t because he doesn’t have the right equipment?
     
  10. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,343
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    Ha. Or maybe he doesn't have access to the tools to perform the calibration. If you have an accurate GPS installed in the aircraft you can also air swing the mag compass. This is the latest guidance.
    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43-215.pdf
     
    OneCharlieTango and fasteddie like this.
  11. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,424
    Location:
    KLAF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    455 Bravo Uniform
    Put a blank card in there, with a dirty thumb-print. The ink on most cards is so faded so you can’t read most of em anyway. No one will ever know.

    Legal? Nope? Funny? I think so (this be POA).

    Disclaimer- don’t do that.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  12. guzziguy

    guzziguy Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2020
    Messages:
    26
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    guzziguy
    Are we absolutely positive a pilot/owner can't swing his own compass (no double-entendre intended)?
     
  13. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OneCharlieTango
    From the AC Bell206 posted:
    1. ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES. Compass calibration, adjustment of compass compensators, and/or preparation of an aircraft compass correction table are aircraft maintenance procedures, as defined in 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1. Certificated airframe mechanics and certificated repair stations (CRS) with the appropriate ratings are authorized to perform a compass swing, which includes adjustment of compass compensators. Repairs or alterations to a compass may only be made by a CRS holding an appropriate instrument or limited instrument rating.


    1. I'm not sure, but I think "appropriate instrument or limited instrument rating" might mean avionics tech?
     
    guzziguy likes this.
  14. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    909
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hang 4
    Any chance there was a picture of said card in the ad for the new plane? Blow it up so you can read the numbers and reproduce it.
     
    Skyrys62 and Bill Jennings like this.
  15. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,721
    Location:
    Central NYS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MuseChaser
    I could scan mine and send it to you....;)
     
  16. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    2,016
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WI Flyer
    Just buy a blank card from Spruce & fill it out. You know, the 2-3 degrees of ‘correction’ for most of the data blanks. Just check headings as you take a runway or perpendicular taxiway. There are a lot of way to check headings, just look at the roads in Iowa.

    One doesn’t want to go into annual without a compass deviation card. There are better ways to spend that $$.
     
  17. Bacho

    Bacho Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bacho
    My plane has a copy of the numbers in the owners manual.
     
  18. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,343
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    FYI: the "instrument" ratings apply only to a certified repair station. As shown in the same paragraph above a mechanic only needs an airframe rating, i.e., the A of an A&P. There's technically no "avionics tech" rating within the FARs but a number of people who specialize in avionics or electrical work will have an A rating so they can sign off work.
     
    OneCharlieTango likes this.
  19. Southpaw

    Southpaw Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    182
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ernest Taft
    Thinking I'm gonna take a picture of my Deviation card.
    asking for a friend ..... Think it will get me into any of those deviated places ?
     
    Barry likes this.
  20. Deelee

    Deelee Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Deelee
    My friend is going to check again under the seats for the card. I am pretty sure he’s going to find it...
     
    Rgbeard, catmandu, guzziguy and 3 others like this.
  21. brien23

    brien23 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Oak Harbor
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brien
    It's called a repairman cert. and only valid for the repair station he works for, no freelance on his own.
     
  22. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,592
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    I think he'll find it, too *wink wink*
     
  23. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,343
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    True in some cases. But, for example, in the CRS I worked at as a day job a number of the avionics/electrical guys had "A" certificates as well as the S/M guys. Most "upgraded" their repairman certs to an A mechanic in order to work outside of the CRS system on company aircraft and other aircraft. I did the same in mx when I went from helper to repairman to A&P.
     
  24. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,095
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Just make it up. No one uses it anymore. They just follow the magenta


    This was a joke by the way...
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  25. Slavcha

    Slavcha Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Slavcha
    Cost me $150 about a a month ago at GMU. Had to get a new one before my check ride.
     
  26. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,084
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    The old one was probably inaccurate anyway. If your friend is bummed about needing a new deviation card, he's going to be bummed frequently during his ownership of an airplane.
     
    Skyrys62, nrpetersen and Tarheelpilot like this.
  27. Barry

    Barry Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    75
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    knoxflier
    i recently had one done because the old one (really old) was in pieces. I recently installed a new radio, and had an Instrument check ride coming up, so asked my avionics guy to swing the compass and create a new card while doing the radio. Think it was just over 1 hour labor. I just wanted one less thing for the DPE to ask about, and he even acknowledge the new card. Now that you mention it i will take a picture of that thing. Do i use it, no. but one less thing to worry about being "right".
     
  28. Deelee

    Deelee Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Deelee
    Friend will probably end up having the card swung then... since he won't have to worry about it during checkride. But he is going to scour the interior (especially under the seats) hoping to find the old one.
     
    Barry likes this.
  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    9,181
    Location:
    Lincoln NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian
    I would be looking back through pics of the airplane to see if there is a picture good enough to copy it.
     
  30. jpskies

    jpskies Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    KEMT
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jpskies
    Great reference document! Thank you!

    The FAA article above say:
    11.1 Logbook Entry. A compass calibration is a maintenance action and requires an entry in the maintenance records for the aircraft.

    Therefore, it is possible the result may be logged in the logbook.
     
  31. Domenick

    Domenick Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2019
    Messages:
    323
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Domenick
    upload_2020-9-17_7-27-40.png

    Card dimensions are 1.625" x 1.00"

    This is for the OEM magnetic compass in my Warrior mounted to the windshield center post atop a steam gauge panel. If you want a photo of the panel, PM me.
     
  32. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,921
    Location:
    Sw florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    bob
    only cheap A&P's drink cheap beer.
     
    iamtheari likes this.
  33. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Atlanta / KRYY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WDD
    Airplanes still have a compass?
     
  34. Deelee

    Deelee Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Deelee
    My buddy found an old video of the plane the previous owner sent... the card is hanging up there right under the compass... But he can't get a good zoom on it! Damn. So close!! Why can't this be like those CSI TV shows where there is magic software that can enlarge something from a low-res photo so it can be read???

    compass_card.GIF

    Thanks! That's what, my um friend's card looked like.... but much older.

    I guess.... I think it is that round thing that hangs off the center pillar. Also have an EFD with AHRS and a GPS... So.... yeah.
     
  35. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,592
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
     
    Jim K likes this.
  36. Deelee

    Deelee Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Deelee
    Ahahah yeah that is classic! Enhance... enhance... enhance.....
     
  37. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    2,016
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WI Flyer
    I found your card, under MY seat.

    AE0A4F94-F518-4E65-80CE-BDBD3431BF63.jpeg
     
    OneCharlieTango likes this.
  38. Deelee

    Deelee Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Deelee
    Ah thanks.... My friend's seat...

    He may be able to blow up that grainy low-res pick to reproduce something like your and Domenick's
     
  39. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,084
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    That actually is not a legal correction card as it doesn't state whether radios were on or off.
     
  40. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    25,069
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    Maybe his plane doesn't have radios.