Comm Rating

PilotRPI

PilotRPI

Line Up and Wait
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Jun 21, 2012
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MA - 1B9
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PilotRPI
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1B9 - Mansfield, MA
Going for my CFI and next step is the commercial rating. Any suggestions on best book for learning the info? Didn't see one from the FAA like there was for IFR. Also, any good books for test prep?

Thanks!
 
Are you studying now for written test, or the oral part of the check ride?

I'm studying for the Com written now, and I'm using the Gleim Commercial Written Test book and the online quizes. So far, I'm finding it a great review of the material.
 
You should know some general 135 aspects. Oxygen and duty hours for example. These were explored during my CPL Oral Exam.
 
I used ASA and was moderately prepared for the written and well prepared for the oral. If you want a higher score, go with Sheppard Air’s online course.
 
Kritchlow said:
First thing you should know is that it’s not a rating.
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Shows you how far along into this I am. My end goal is to be a CFI because I love flying and teaching. Could care less about the commercial aspect, in the traditional sense.
 
Certificates, Endorsements, Ratings, etc. Actually, Commercial is technically a "Major Award".
 
Kritchlow said:
First thing you should know is that it’s not a rating.
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Where are you getting that? According to 14 CFR 1.1, if it sets forth privileges on your pilot certificate, it's a rating.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."​

On my pilot certificate, "Commercial Pilot" is listed under the heading, "Ratings."
 
Palmpilot said:
Where are you getting that? According to 14 CFR 1.1, if it sets forth privileges on your pilot certificate, it's a rating.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."​

On my pilot certificate, "Commercial Pilot" is listed under the heading, "Ratings."
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I think he got that from FAR 61.5 which lists all the "Certificates and ratings issued under this part." Check it.

mine may be different than yours. Mine says "Commercial Pilot" on the front and the associated ratings -airplane single engine land and instrument airplane" under "Ratings" in the back.
 
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Palmpilot said:
Where are you getting that? According to 14 CFR 1.1, if it sets forth privileges on your pilot certificate, it's a rating.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."​

On my pilot certificate, "Commercial Pilot" is listed under the heading, "Ratings."
Click to expand...

This is just lazy and inaccurate. What does it say in the faa airman registry under CERTIFICATES?
 
PilotRPI said:
Shows you how far along into this I am. My end goal is to be a CFI because I love flying and teaching. Could care less about the commercial aspect, in the traditional sense.
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Since that's where you are heading, understand that the distinctions among "certificate," "rating," and "endorsement" actually mean something, and are an aid to understanding various privileges and limitations you will be teaching.

The easiest example comes from the logging wars. You may log PIC if you are sole manipulator and rated in the aircraft. For years people argued that you could not log PIC in a complex aircraft because you didn't have a "complex rating." Which was wrong for the simple reason that "complex" is not a "rating."
 
Eric Brunelle said:
Get the ACS from the FAA web site.
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There’s a list of references for each Task and for the ACS as a whole.

That’s where the OP will find that the Airplane Flying Handbook contains information related to performance maneuvers, for example.

I recently decided to build my own maneuvers guide and lesson plan just because I was reviewing steep turns (now 50* for Commercial) and some discrepancies between a few ground schools and test prep sources about load factors for various angles of bank.

It was amazing how many non-FAA resources did not accurately reflect the FAA publications.

ETA, the AFH is the “C” version which adds an excellent chapter on energy management and, in my opinion, does a much better job connecting the dots across chapters. I have a feeling whoever led the major revision effort knew how and where to improve the previous edition.
 
In fairness, you can’t hold a commercial pilot certificate without at least one rating. So it’s not necessarily wrong to say “I’m working toward my commercial rating (in single engine land airplanes).” But yes, definitely know and understand the FAA jargon so you can more easily understand the rules that use it (such as the PIC logging and safety pilot rules referred to above) and teach others correctly.
 
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Palmpilot said:
Where are you getting that? According to 14 CFR 1.1, if it sets forth privileges on your pilot certificate, it's a rating.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."​

On my pilot certificate, "Commercial Pilot" is listed under the heading, "Ratings."
Click to expand...

61.5 (a) The following certificates are issued under this part to an applicant who satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the certificate sought:

(1) Pilot certificates -

(i) Student pilot.

(ii) Sport pilot.

(iii) Recreational pilot.

(iv) Private pilot.

(v) Commercial pilot.

(vi) Airline transport pilot.

(2) Flight instructor certificates.

(3) Ground instructor certificates.


(b) The following ratings are placed on a pilot certificate (other than student pilot) when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the rating sought:

(1) Aircraft category ratings -

(i) Airplane.

(ii) Rotorcraft.

(iii) Glider.

(iv) Lighter-than-air.

(v) Powered-lift.

(vi) Powered parachute.

(vii) Weight-shift-control aircraft.


(8) Instrument ratings (on private and commercial pilot certificates only) -

(i) Instrument - Airplane.

(ii) Instrument - Helicopter.

(iii) Instrument - Powered-lift.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I think he got that from FAR 61.5 which lists all the "Certificates and ratings issued under this part." Check it.

mine may be different than yours. Mine says "Commercial Pilot" on the front and the associated ratings -airplane single engine land and instrument airplane" under "Ratings" in the back.
Click to expand...

Signature cropped.jpg
 
midlifeflyer said:
Since that's where you are heading, understand that the distinctions among "certificate," "rating," and "endorsement" actually mean something, and are an aid to understanding various privileges and limitations you will be teaching.

The easiest example comes from the logging wars. You may log PIC if you are sole manipulator and rated in the aircraft. For years people argued that you could not log PIC in a complex aircraft because you didn't have a "complex rating." Which was wrong for the simple reason that "complex" is not a "rating."
Click to expand...

Based on the wording of 14 CFR 1.1, I was under the impression that the reason "complex" isn't a rating is because it's not "set forth" as "part of a certificate."
 
Mine says the same - Commercial Pilot in front, then again under ratings. Doesn't make sense, some confusion at the FAA. Doesn't change the fact that it is a "Certificate", not a Rating. Also note above - An ATP certificate should wipe out the Instrument rating, since it is part of that certificate.
 
The FAA is not consistent.

My certificate says COMMERCIAL PILOT on the front
On the back, the word commercial does not exist. Only ratings, as follows:
Single engine land
Instrument

Limitations are also on the back.

For a little humor here, I am fond of pulling out my certificate when a government issued ID is required, and when they ask to see the picture, cover one Wright brother with my thumb, and explain the picture is from when I came of
Chemo therapy.

Works some times.
 
Eric Brunelle said:
Mine says the same - Commercial Pilot in front, then again under ratings. Doesn't make sense, some confusion at the FAA. Doesn't change the fact that it is a "Certificate", not a Rating. Also note above - An ATP certificate should wipe out the Instrument rating, since it is part of that certificate.
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In the case you cite, the FAA is not confused. You hold a commercial pilot certificate. The reason it says “Commercial Pilot” on the back under ratings is because that is a header. Everything under that header are the ratings you hold at the commercial level. There will be a “Private pilot” header under the ratings as well, and the ratings you hold at the private level, if you do not hold all ratings at the commercial level.

An ATP certificate with ratings at the commercial level would be far more common.
 
The Certificate layout makes total sense. You just have to think like a Fed to decipher it.

The back of the card specifies "Ratings" AS PER EACH CERTIFICATE. Get it?

In my case My ATP CERTIFICATE is for Airplane Multi-Engine and Rotorcraft Helicopter, but on the back of the card, under "Ratings," I have only Airplane Single Engine privileges as a Commercial CERTIFICATE holder. Make sense now?

If I had Airplane single Engine privileges on my ATP CERTIFICATE, there would be nothing on the back.

Similarly and to confuse things even more... I no longer have an instrument RATING listed, because I hold an ATP CERTIFICATE...

Ain't this fun?
 
IK04 said:
The Certificate layout makes total sense. You just have to think like a Fed to decipher it.
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No need to think like a Fed. You just need to think logically. My guess the confusion is coming from folks that have never held ratings at multiple certificate levels or have never seen a certificate of someone who does. The header might not make sense when there is only one listed under ratings.
 
mondtster said:
In the case you cite, the FAA is not confused. You hold a commercial pilot certificate. The reason it says “Commercial Pilot” on the back under ratings is because that is a header. Everything under that header are the ratings you hold at the commercial level. There will be a “Private pilot” header under the ratings as well, and the ratings you hold at the private level, if you do not hold all ratings at the commercial level.

An ATP certificate with ratings at the commercial level would be far more common.
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Yes, exactly. I think mine is a good example:

upload_2022-11-28_14-10-5.png

Under "Ratings", the "Airline Transport Pilot" is a heading for those ratings that are at the ATP level. Then "Commercial Privileges" is a heading for those ratings that are at the Commercial level. Nobody would say that "Commercial Privileges" is a "rating" itself, just like "Airline Transport Pilot" isn't a "rating". It's just a heading.

Similarly, down lower, under Type Ratings, it shows the level of the type ratings. This is done in "code" as the "A/" means it's at the "ATP" level, but otherwise it's the same as the "Ratings" section.
 
IK04 said:
The Certificate layout makes total sense. You just have to think like a Fed to decipher it.

The back of the card specifies "Ratings" AS PER EACH CERTIFICATE. Get it?

In my case My ATP CERTIFICATE is for Airplane Multi-Engine and Rotorcraft Helicopter, but on the back of the card, under "Ratings," I have only Airplane Single Engine privileges as a Commercial CERTIFICATE holder. Make sense now?

If I had Airplane single Engine privileges on my ATP CERTIFICATE, there would be nothing on the back.

Similarly and to confuse things even more... I no longer have an instrument RATING listed, because I hold an ATP CERTIFICATE...

Ain't this fun?
Click to expand...

So how does an ATP Certificate not cover ASEL? Is it because you haven't taken an ASEL rating test at the ATP level, as you did when you got your Commercial Certificate? (Is there even such a thing?)

BTW - as I'm just getting started for this Commercial Certificate thing, I am finding this thread to be very helpful.
 
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WDD said:
So how does an ATP Certificate not cover ASEL? Is it because you haven't taken an ASEL rating test at the ATP level, as you did when you got your Commercial Certificate? (Is there even such a thing?)
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If you held a private ASEL and AMEL prior to taking a checkride for the original issuance of a commercial certificate, the only thing that you would have commercial privileges in would be whatever you took the checkride in. If you wanted commercial privileges in the rest, you'd have to take commercial add on checkrides in the others.
 
WDD said:
So how does an ATP Certificate not cover ASEL? Is it because you haven't taken an ASEL rating test at the ATP level, as you did when you got your Commercial Certificate? (Is there even such a thing?)

BTW - as I'm just getting started for this Commercial Certificate thing, I am finding this thread to be very helpful.
Click to expand...

As on my example above, I took my ATP check ride in a multiengine airplane (like most people). So I am ATP-AMEL. Since I did NOT take it in a Single-engine airplane, I do not have ATP-level privileges in single engine airplanes. This is of course not much of a problem, and my situation is extremely common. Most ATPs out there probably have the same thing.

If I wanted to add ASEL privileges to my ATP, I would have to take another check ride. This is just like going from private to commercial, same process.
 
My certificate has nothing under limitations, and no magnetic strip. So I guess I am not Engrish proficient...
 
Zeldman said:
My certificate has nothing under limitations, and no magnetic strip. So I guess I am not Engrish proficient...
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It's ironic that being English-proficient is referred to as a limitation!
 
If the FAA just called them licenses instead of certificates like common sense would dictate, then there would probably be much less confusion about ratings vs certificates/licenses...
 
IK04 said:
The Certificate layout makes total sense. You just have to think like a Fed to decipher it.

The back of the card specifies "Ratings" AS PER EACH CERTIFICATE. Get it?

In my case My ATP CERTIFICATE is for Airplane Multi-Engine and Rotorcraft Helicopter, but on the back of the card, under "Ratings," I have only Airplane Single Engine privileges as a Commercial CERTIFICATE holder. Make sense now?

If I had Airplane single Engine privileges on my ATP CERTIFICATE, there would be nothing on the back.

Similarly and to confuse things even more... I no longer have an instrument RATING listed, because I hold an ATP CERTIFICATE...

Ain't this fun?
Click to expand...
RussR said:
Yes, exactly. I think mine is a good example:

View attachment 112668

Under "Ratings", the "Airline Transport Pilot" is a heading for those ratings that are at the ATP level. Then "Commercial Privileges" is a heading for those ratings that are at the Commercial level. Nobody would say that "Commercial Privileges" is a "rating" itself, just like "Airline Transport Pilot" isn't a "rating". It's just a heading.

Similarly, down lower, under Type Ratings, it shows the level of the type ratings. This is done in "code" as the "A/" means it's at the "ATP" level, but otherwise it's the same as the "Ratings" section.
Click to expand...
Okay, you two (@IK04 and @RussR) have a difference between your certificates that creates an esoteric point of curiosity for me. The ATP certificate has an implied instrument rating. You can’t be a VFR-only ATP. But you can be a VFR-only commercial or private pilot. Is the ATP’s implied instrument rating category-specific or universal?

In other words, does @RussR’s certificate (ATP in AMEL and a couple of types, CPL in ASEL and helicopters) give him instrument privileges in helicopters? If not, could he add an Instrument-Helicopter rating to his commercial helicopter privileges?
 
iamtheari said:
Okay, you two (@IK04 and @RussR) have a difference between your certificates that creates an esoteric point of curiosity for me. The ATP certificate has an implied instrument rating. You can’t be a VFR-only ATP. But you can be a VFR-only commercial or private pilot. Is the ATP’s implied instrument rating category-specific or universal?

In other words, does @RussR’s certificate (ATP in AMEL and a couple of types, CPL in ASEL and helicopters) give him instrument privileges in helicopters? If not, could he add an Instrument-Helicopter rating to his commercial helicopter privileges?
Click to expand...

Considering that an instrument rating is category specific, I highly doubt that an ATP in an airplane implies that you’d have instrument privileges in a helicopter that you only have commercial privileges for.
 
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