C150 hits Helicopter, Carlisle, PA, Fatalities, 8/19/26

Kenny Phillips

Kenny Phillips

Final Approach
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Kenny Phillips
If you believe the witnesses, the Cessna "swerved" into the helicopter.
www.nbcnews.com

Pilot killed, 2 state troopers hurt after small plane and helicopter collide

A state police helicopter and a small plane collided over Carlisle Airport in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, resulting in the death of the plane’s pilot, officials said. Authorities said the troopers were conducting a training exercise in their helicopter when the plane veered off course during landing...
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
I'm surprised this hasn't happened at CJR. A bunch of clowns in some sort of law enforcement mission keep parcticing ops just off the runway in a nook in the trees that obscures them from traffic operating on the runway and no CTAF calls. These things can still throw substantial downwash even if technically off the runway. Perhaps the pilot hit that and overcorrected.
 
I know you can’t believe the news but it said they collided. Probably more like a Camry hitting a F350.
 
bonefishpete said:
I know you can’t believe the news but it said they collided. Probably more like a Camry hitting a F350.
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From the pics I saw, more like driving your Camry into a large blender. Seems the 150 landed on top of the running main rotor blades...
 
flyingron said:
I'm surprised this hasn't happened at CJR
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I unfortunately agree. I avoid CJR whenever possible. Seems to be the popular spot for the local flight schools to all show up like a swarm of bees to bash the pattern... Now there are helicopters doing helicopter things there? Yikes.
 
From the various TV Descriptions of the incident, (Sharp turn into the Helo) Sounds like Target Fixation (staring at what you want to avoid instead of where you need to go) or a dragging/failed brake. OTOH, no info about if the 150 was airborne or on the ground.
 
Bell206 said:
From the pics I saw, more like driving your Camry into a large blender. Seems the 150 landed on top of the running main rotor blades...
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A news article I read said "“When I say it was a very violent crash, that plane was cut into a lot of pieces,” he said, explaining that part of the investigation will be making sure the pilot was the only person on board." :oops:
 
X3 Skier said:
OTOH, no info about if the 150 was airborne or on the ground.
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From ADS-B data, it seems clear that the C150 was landing runway 28 although at the press briefing, the PSP head stated only that the C150 “approached” the PSP helicopter “from behind” and that the PSP pilot would not have been able to see the C150.

The last ADS-B data point for the C150 at 2251Z showed a 0.5nm base turn for runway 28. At that time, ADS-B data showed the PSP helicopter over the threshold of runway 28. The PSP helicopter continued to a point just north of the midpoint of the runway.
 
Dixiebluesky said:
You could have video from 10 different angles. The people in the helicopter could be shooting at the Cessna and then intentionally cause the crash. It would still be we investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing.
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Puzzled I am by your rant.

Are you saying that the PSP will do the accident investigation, guaranteeing exoneration of the PSP helicopter pilot, regardless of evidence?

How would that square with the accident investigation being conducted by the NTSB? BTW, NTSB press briefing in Carlisle today at 17:30 EDT.
 
MFE said:
A news article I read said "“When I say it was a very violent crash, that plane was cut into a lot of pieces,” he said, explaining that part of the investigation will be making sure the pilot was the only person on board." :oops:
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Well the one pic I saw showed the tailrotor and tailboom intact but broken off at the fuselage, so the 150 didn't hit there. But all the main rotor blades are gone. A 2nd pic I saw showed both 150 main gear legs/wheels still attached to the lower fuselage structure but nothing else around, which is also the same structure the seats are attached to. I'm sure you can figure the rest.
 
Bell206 said:
A 2nd pic I saw showed both 150 main gear legs/wheels still attached to the lower fuselage structure but nothing else around, which is also the same structure the seats are attached to. I'm sure you can figure the rest.
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Yep, matches the reports I've read. Poor guy didn't stand a chance.
 
AquaLand said:
Puzzled I am by your rant.

Are you saying that the PSP will do the accident investigation, guaranteeing exoneration of the PSP helicopter pilot, regardless of evidence?

How would that square with the accident investigation being conducted by the NTSB? BTW, NTSB press briefing in Carlisle today at 17:30 EDT.
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Just a random musing for the internet, while having zero idea of what actually happened.

If that clip is indeed the real event he for sure got that lift from the rotor wash and went right into it. I have been in that same situation many times where a helo is hovering on a taxiway right by the runway. It sucks but if the runway length does not allow landing before or past them with a decent buffer all you can do is go around until they have moved off.
 
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Dixiebluesky said:
If that clip is indeed the real event he for sure got that lift from the rotor wash and went right into it. I have been in that same situation many times where a helo is hovering on a taxiway right by the runway. It sucks but if the runway length does not allow landing before or past them with a decent buffer all you can do is go around until they have moved off.
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I agree with you, here...I bet downwash from the helicopter was a major factor.

My old airport had a lot of visiting helicopters training students (untowered airport, they were based at towered ones). They'd fly their approach (slowly...) hover over the numbers for a moment, then slide off to the left a hundred or two feet and just hover there for minutes on end. Us in fixed-wing aircraft learned to fly further down the runway to land, as the approach end was badly buffeted by the downwash.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Real shame.

Not sure I would have landed though with the helicopter where it was. Or I may have made a asked on Final if the helicopter was going to move away from the Runway.
 
M20K said:
Not sure I would have landed though with the helicopter where it was. Or I may have made a asked on Final if the helicopter was going to move away from the Runway.
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It was certainly not a good idea to make a base to final turn within a half a mile from the runway with the helicopter hovering on or close to the runway.

My guess is the Cessna pilot never saw the helicopter when on downwind, and there was little or no communication or awareness between the two of them. And if he noticed the helicopter while on final he obviously never expected any adverse wake, or may not have been even aware of the hazard. It's not like it was a military Apache or Chinook hovering near the runway that would get more attention.

At our airport plenty of rotary practice occurs, including military, but they are generally kept out near the ends of the runway, way off to the sides. However our runways are long enough to fly well above and land beyond these big and heavy helicopters and still have plenty of runway remaining to land.

Unless the State Police helicopter was based there or visiting on official business, using it for practice was a bad idea (if that's what it was). Lots of other larger and less busy GA airports around here.
 
Rick A said:
Unless the State Police helicopter was based there or visiting on official business, using it for practice was a bad idea (if that's what it was). Lots of other larger and less busy GA airports around here.
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Accident helicopter was Trooper 3 based at KCXY. At today’s NTSB briefing, it was confirmed that Trooper 3 was conducting training with an instructor pilot and student. That certainly qualifies as “official business.” However, it’s also obvious that PSP’s risk mitigation for the training scenarios at N94 was inadequate.

NTSB IIC also confirmed that both accident aircraft were aware of each other based on CTAF. Specifically, IIC stated that he is confident that the C150 pilot was aware of the B407’s position on the airport.
 
Rick A said:
It was certainly not a good idea to make a base to final turn within a half a mile from the runway with the helicopter hovering on or close to the runway.
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Half mile would be pretty standard for a plane like that.

Rick A said:
My guess is the Cessna pilot never saw the helicopter when on downwind, and there was little or no communication or awareness between the two of them. And if he noticed the helicopter while on final he obviously never expected any adverse wake, or may not have been even aware of the hazard.
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Do we know now for a fact that there was no communications? I haven't read real reports since this morning. And have we heard anything about how experienced, or not, the Cessna pilot was? Could easily have been a solo student that had no real experience with rotor wash, even if it was covered by their CFI and Ground School.

I don't know how long the helicopter was hovering there, but that's not a place to hover.
 
M20K said:
Half mile would be pretty standard for a plane like that.


Do we know now for a fact that there was no communications? I haven't read real reports since this morning. And have we heard anything about how experienced, or not, the Cessna pilot was? Could easily have been a solo student that had no real experience with rotor wash, even if it was covered by their CFI and Ground School.

I don't know how long the helicopter was hovering there, but that's not a place to hover.
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I saw in one news article that the pilot was commercial and also was a cfi.
 
M20K said:
Do we know now for a fact that there was no communications? I haven't read real reports since this morning. And have we heard anything about how experienced, or not, the Cessna pilot was?
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Based on today’s NTSB briefing, we know that there was CTAF communication associated with both accident aircraft. The NTSB IIC also stated that the C150 pilot was a CFI. The FAA Airmen Registry confirms the C150 pilot was commercial/multi/inst plus CFI.
 
FlightmechH3 said:
The primary fault is the helo pilot hovering next to the runway. Good thing the NTSB took over the investigation from the state police
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With what we know so far, I believe you're correct.

Almost every accident involving a collision of two transportation vehicles involves a variable percentage of shared fault. The one that initiated the event, and the one that didn't notice or realize that the primary fault even existed in time to avoid or stop it.
 
Rick A said:
Almost every accident involving a collision of two transportation vehicles involves a variable percentage of shared fault. The one that initiated the event, and the one that didn't notice or realize that the primary fault even existed in time to avoid or stop it.
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but like everything else with LifeTM, the penalties are seldom doled out with proportionality. Fixed wing guy dying on this one for instance.
 
I watched that video and he was what, 40-50' from the runway in a hover? Despite them "talking" they both weren't listening and processing situational awareness. There's a video of an H60 somewhere that almost caused a plane taking off to crash. Very recent incident.

The helo should have landed if another plane was coming in to land
 
"The pilot is ultimately responsible for maintaining an appropriate interval, and should consider all available information in positioning the aircraft in the terminal area, to avoid the wake turbulence created by a preceding aircraft."

The chopper was legal, yes there was wake turbulence but that's part of how an airplane/helo airplanes/helo's.

I don't think its logical or even wise to blame the chopper. FAR 91.3

Could blame be split? Yeah, 80% on the Cessna, 20% on the chopper.... maybe 95%/5% as again, wake turbulence is a thing at big and small fields, controlled or not.
 
91.13? 91.113(g)? I don't think the helicopter was "attempting to make way" for the landing Cessna.
 
X3 Skier said:
dragging/failed brake
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I don't think the Cessna ever landed, from the video it was in the air. Maybe it did, but wake turbulence is a thing and CFIs don't stress it enough during training.
Way back I was a student in a 150 in the pattern with CH-47s and UH-1s. My CFI was a WO4 and a chopper pilot. He talked endlessly about how dangerous the rotor wash was.
 
dmspilot said:
91.13? 91.113(g)? I don't think the helicopter was "attempting to make way" for the landing Cessna.
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Hovering or even taxing over grass is not wreckless. Chopper apparently made CTAF announcements.

Landing into the wake of another AC seems more reckless than a chopper in hover/taxing
 
pfarber said:
Hovering or even taxing over grass is not wreckless. Chopper apparently made CTAF announcements.

Landing into the wake of another AC seems more reckless than a chopper in hover/taxing
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But creating a hazard to a landing aircraft is not a violation of a right of way that gives priority to landing aircraft?
 
pfarber said:
Could blame be split? Yeah, 80% on the Cessna, 20% on the chopper.... maybe 95%/5% as again, wake turbulence is a thing at big and small fields, controlled or not.
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It's a tough call and it will be interesting to find out what the NTSB finally says after ALL of the information is collected.

I sort of look at it as the helicopter really didn't FULLY EXIT the runway. There was no reason for them to sit there and pretty bad on their part. However... If there is an aircraft still on the runway or that hasn't fully exited, you go around. This is one of those examples of the stuff you keep hearing and you go yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
dmspilot said:
But creating a hazard to a landing aircraft is not a violation of a right of way that gives priority to landing aircraft?
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Breaking a reg or more just poor judgement?

As long as I'm on an IFR Flight Plan and have been released, I can take off fully loaded from a 2500ft Rwy in 0/0 conditions, in the mountains and with the OAT at 32F (assuming no "known icing"). Doesn't mean it is something I really should do.
 
M20K said:
if there is an aircraft still on the runway or that hasn't fully exited, you go around.
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The helicopter was hovering around mid-field and the C150 was airborne and appearing to climb.
I speculate he was in the "go" phase of a go-around or a touch and go. Did he realize something wasn't right and was trying to get out of there? We might never know.
 
Call me whatever you want, but we have a cot of C5/C-130 and military helo (CH-47) traffic at my field. When they’re there I’m in the FBO drinking coffee.
 
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