Bonanza down in Lancaster PA March 9 2025

Den60 said:
Pilot was returning due to an open door. Looking at the scene, have to think there are some fatalities:
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If you want a reminder of just how stupid the Internet is, read some of the replies to the tweet. Vaccines are a theme.

As I have vowed to do every time I read an open-door accident, I will note that my Decathlon door once popped open while inverted in a loop. I closed it, finished the loop, and got my best score of the contest.

If you cannot handle an open door in anything less than an F16, you probably should not be a pilot. Do CFI's not do that to students anymore?
 
That’s pretty aggravating UNLESS there was something else involved like a passenger freaking out or some baggage flying out the open door hitting a control surface. Otherwise, really?
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you want a reminder of just how stupid the Internet is, read some of the replies to the tweet. Vaccines are a theme.

As I have vowed to do every time I read an open-door accident, I will note that my Decathlon door once popped open while inverted in a loop. I closed it, finished the loop, and got my best score of the contest.

If you cannot handle an open door in anything less than an F16, you probably should not be a pilot. Do CFI's not do that to students anymore?
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... My morbid curiosity makes me want to read the replies just to see the mental gymnastics required to link vaccines to a bonanza crash...
 
eman1200 said:
That’s pretty aggravating UNLESS there was something else involved like a passenger freaking out or some baggage flying out the open door hitting a control surface. Otherwise, really?
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Happened to the Rv10 in California.
 
My briefings when I teach this are always "so this is a real dumb reason to die, but people keep doing it, so let's talk about door pops..."

Literally just did that briefing yesterday and here we have a freshly barbecued airplane. Aggravating isn't the half of it.
 
If you look at the adsb track on adsbexchange the airspeed seems slow to me for an a36....of course I'm not sure what the headwind was. But if this was distraction from an open door I would expect to see increasing airspeed when they leveled off and started to descent.
 
Open door. I did the first leg of my first solo cross country in -15C with the door on our Cherokee popping open right after take off.
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you want a reminder of just how stupid the Internet is, read some of the replies to the tweet. Vaccines are a theme.

As I have vowed to do every time I read an open-door accident, I will note that my Decathlon door once popped open while inverted in a loop. I closed it, finished the loop, and got my best score of the contest.

If you cannot handle an open door in anything less than an F16, you probably should not be a pilot. Do CFI's not do that to students anymore?
Click to expand...
My first Discovery Flight was in a 1940's Aeronca. The cabin door popped open just after take-off. That startled me but the instructor calmly maneuvered the plane and got the door closed. The only other time I flew with an open door...well, doors off, was in a Remos G3. I had my Sport Cert but was building hours dual befote they'd rent to me. We removed the doors and that flight was really something wonderful.
 
rk911 said:
My first Discovery Flight was in a 1940's Aeronca. The cabin door popped open just after take-off. That startled me but the instructor calmly maneuvered the plane and got the door closed. The only other time I flew with an open door...well, doors off, was in a Remos G3. I had my Sport Cert but was building hours dual befote they'd rent to me. We removed the doors and that flight was really something wonderful.
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This particular Remos , with doors off , out of Aurora IL ?

 
Who would have thought flying in a Cirrus would be so useful? I've lost count of how many returns I've made for doors that didn't latch properly.

What a horrible reason to die.
 
Warmi said:
This particular Remos , with doors off , out of Aurora IL ?

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Yup,KARR. Don't recall the name of the school. JA was droppimg their Sport program and getting rid of their Cessna 162's so I was looking for another LSA. The G3 flew almost identical to the 162 but IMO it really wasn't suited for XC flights.
 
Hengelo said:
Who would have thought flying in a Cirrus would be so useful? I've lost count of how many returns I've made for doors that didn't latch properly.

What a horrible reason to die.
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Burns, but no deaths the last time I checked.
 
Just speculating here but I looked up an image for an A36 bonanza... could one of these aft doors have popped leading to that backwards opening far aft door departing the aircraft and possibly striking the tail? I don't know how these doors work... maybe it was popped and a passenger tried to "fix it" and inadvertently caused that to happen?

G36-passenger-doors-300x225.jpg.optimal.jpg
 
cowman said:
Just speculating here but I looked up an image for an A36 bonanza... could one of these aft doors have popped leading to that backwards opening far aft door departing the aircraft and possibly striking the tail? I don't know how these doors work... maybe it was popped and a passenger tried to "fix it" and inadvertently caused that to happen?

G36-passenger-doors-300x225.jpg.optimal.jpg
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Pilot doors popping open is a relatively common occurrence in Bonanzas and Barons. I’ve never heard of a rear door coming open in flight.
 
cowman said:
Just speculating here but I looked up an image for an A36 bonanza... could one of these aft doors have popped leading to that backwards opening far aft door departing the aircraft and possibly striking the tail? I don't know how these doors work... maybe it was popped and a passenger tried to "fix it" and inadvertently caused that to happen?

G36-passenger-doors-300x225.jpg.optimal.jpg
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the aft door closes and latches with two stout latches, one top, one bottom, and is further secured by the forward door shutting it all in.

If anything is the least bit not secured well, there is a dash annunciator about the cargo door.

Doubt it was that, that'd take a sequence of multi-ball failures. :) I'd never say never though. I'm betting this is a basic B failure to latch the forward cabin door. Those always pop when the low pressure hits the upper wing, right at rotation for maximum startle effect and minimum available pilot CPU. It's fun to demo. It's still a stupid reason to die or lunch a fine airplane.
 
I’ve had it happened a number of times, I will say don’t touch it, especially in the climb. Once the workload comes down, then can play with it. Or return for landing. Most of the time I’m able to fix it in flight. It’s noisy and cold, other than that, no big deal.
 
dcat127 said:
If you look at the adsb track on adsbexchange the airspeed seems slow to me for an a36....of course I'm not sure what the headwind was. But if this was distraction from an open door I would expect to see increasing airspeed when they leveled off and started to descent.
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Reported 50kts gusts by a local person. Might be exaggerated but it was sporty.
 
It’s happened to me and it’s easy to focus on leaning into to it and falling out or having a kid do it because they don’t understand the danger
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you cannot handle an open door in anything less than an F16, you probably should not be a pilot. Do CFI's not do that to students anymore?
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TIL, that a Velocity is equal to an F-16. I guess that's kind of nice.

To my knowledge, there's never been a successful landing of a Velocity that had a door open inflight. That's why we have 4 door pins and a warning light to show the pins are engaged.
 
The winds I saw listed were gusting to 30kts, but right down runway 26. That may also be the reason for the slower groundspeed on the flight track.
 
bonefishpete said:
Did I also see low time Pilot too?
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Don't know about that, but the plane didn't fly that much in the previous months. Looks like a long maintenance event and then a bit of flying in the couple days prior to the accident.
 
The door thing is just passing fear along CFI to student

With most doors you’d have a hard time TRYING to jump out with the airflow over the door, only danger is a lost pen on phone from the side of the seat
 
cowman said:
Just speculating here but I looked up an image for an A36 bonanza... could one of these aft doors have popped leading to that backwards opening far aft door departing the aircraft and possibly striking the tail? I don't know how these doors work... maybe it was popped and a passenger tried to "fix it" and inadvertently caused that to happen?

G36-passenger-doors-300x225.jpg.optimal.jpg
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That what I was thinking, this aircraft has "clamshell" doors for the PAX compartment. If that was open it would likely create not just noise and wind in the cockpit, but would introduce a significant yaw to the right.
 
eman1200 said:
That’s pretty aggravating UNLESS there was something else involved like a passenger freaking out or some baggage flying out the open door hitting a control surface. Otherwise, really?
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Interesting, I never really thought about it before but right before I soloed my CFI was trying to distract me, pointing at an "accident" on the freeway and opening his door on short final amongst other things. Was happy when he got out and told me to do a circuit in the pattern. The only thing that really bothered me was that he exited with the engine running. I'm rather risk adverse.
 
Den60 said:
That what I was thinking, this aircraft has "clamshell" doors for the PAX compartment. If that was open it would likely create not just noise and wind in the cockpit, but would introduce a significant yaw to the right.
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Are these like 206 rear doors with the sensor and double latches
 
Den60 said:
Interesting, I never really thought about it before but right before I soloed my CFI was trying to distract me, pointing at an "accident" on the freeway and opening his door on short final amongst other things. Was happy when he got out and told me to do a circuit in the pattern. The only thing that really bothered me was that he exited with the engine running. I'm rather risk adverse.
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That's quite the pre-solo check...and I think I like it! Clearly your CFI was very comfortable in the plane to have the eggs to do that to a pre-solo student but certainly reduces the shock factor for the first-solo student if something goes wrong.

I've also been keen on shutting down the engine prior to someone exiting the plane but watching some YouTube videos it appears most CFIs don't worry about it much.
 
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