Bonanza down in Lancaster PA March 9 2025

AV8R_87 said:
Yep. I don't care that you're a retired Navy pilot that flies for a major airline and has the same plane I have, the engine still has to be off before you get in or out.
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Problem is, you can only control that in your airplane. You still have to convince that guy in the Chief who’s giving rides to his kid’s third grade class and would have to find somebody to hand prop him 20 times.

(For the record, I volunteered to do the hand propping…shoulders hurt like hell for a couple of days.)
 
KE5BM said:
That's quite the pre-solo check...and I think I like it! Clearly your CFI was very comfortable in the plane to have the eggs to do that to a pre-solo student but certainly reduces the shock factor for the first-solo student if something goes wrong.

I've also been keen on shutting down the engine prior to someone exiting the plane but watching some YouTube videos it appears most CFIs don't worry about it much.
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He was tied to a Missionary Aviation Group though I hired him directly. He had me to do a check ride with their chief pilot, an older gentleman. That guy had me fly up to Temecula and then over a construction area where they were grading with a lot of heavy equipment, he pulled power and said "engine out." So I did as I was trained and set up to land while running through the checklist, he added power at about 50' and cut it immediately again. Did that about a half dozen times and I was zig-zagging through the heavy equipment. All I could think of was the guys below wondering if I was on drugs or something. My CFI also had me spend 4 hours with another CFI who specialized in mountain flying. I learned a ton from him and always recommend that kind of training to other pilots. I live in San Diego and, while our mountains only get to about 5K feet here, there are a lot of wrecked aircraft on them. We flew out of Ramona, on the climb out towards Julian I was in a 172 @ full power, trimmed to climb. So, he pointed at the VSI and I was descending at 1,000ft/min. I never would have thought I was descending. He said, "don't worry, once you clear this ridge you'll be fine." Then he said that, when flying in the mountains, the VSI was the most important instrument to watch. I consider my training to have been top notch.
 
And yes, I did not like him getting out with the engine running and called him out for that. He said he would be fine. No way I'd ever let a passenger do that. When I soloed, he didn't have a radio on him. I got held a bit, waiting for traffic and never saw that the tower turned the beacon on. Did my first solo technically at night though there was plenty of light.
 
I landed about 1.5 hours before the Bo departed on a day trip to drop the son off in OH. On board were the pilot and son (front seats) mom and a young daughter (second row) and a friend of the daughter in a rear jump seat. The Bo was converted into an Allison Turbine burning jet fuel (lucky for them).

The winds were gusting to 30kts down the departure runway 26 and variable from around 240 to 280 degrees, and it was bumpy. They were filed IFR and directed to turn right (Harrisburg VOR was the first waypoint, then direct destination).

They lifted off, flew straight ahead in a climb and announced the door popped open. At about the intersection of the two runways the plane banked steep to the left (downwind turn). Appears the aircraft stalled coming out of the turn. Flightaware showed it leveling at around 500'. There's some conjecture that the plane partially recovered from the stall as it clipped the tops of two evergreens and appeared to hit down down hard with level wings and skid 100 feet into parked cars, just off the airport property into a retirement community.

The airport rescue vehicle arrived (solo fireman) in about 3 minutes and started dumping water into the cabin believing there were people inside. The worst of the fire was on the right wing (door side of the aircraft). The Township Fire Truck arrived within another minute of two (just 1/2 mile down the road from the airport and fireman were at the station on a Sunday) and dumped foam.

Apparently all five occupants got out on their own, and the son may have needed some assistance. It's presumed the Dad helped because allegedly he's receives burns on over 30% of his body, and is now in a medicated coma. The son was operated on yesterday for a back injury. Mom's condition not known. The two girls in the back were released out of a burn center yesterday.

This information on conditions was from a close friend of the family, and not the news media which has been all over the place on info. I had a beer yesterday late afternoon with an airport fireman who was off on Sunday, but well familiar.

Friends, family, and locals here are considering this an absolute survival miracle. An elderly lady from the home ran out with blankets and helped roll and wrap some of the smoking people. Not sure about the Mom, Dad and son but we are hearing all are expected to survive. A lot of praying going on around here!
 
Towards the end of my private training my crusty old CFI popped his door right after rotation just to see what I’d do. Fly the pattern, land!
 
Ooof. :(

Always, always, always, fly the plane. An open door is not a dire emergency, and there's no reason to change what you'd normally do to get back on the ground faster. Fly the plane, do the full pattern, land, close door, and it's a non-event.
 
Rick A said:
I landed about 1.5 hours before the Bo departed on a day trip to drop the son off in OH. On board were the pilot and son (front seats) mom and a young daughter (second row) and a friend of the daughter in a rear jump seat. The Bo was converted into an Allison Turbine burning jet fuel (lucky for them).

The winds were gusting to 30kts down the departure runway 26 and variable from around 240 to 280 degrees, and it was bumpy. They were filed IFR and directed to turn right (Harrisburg VOR was the first waypoint, then direct destination).

They lifted off, flew straight ahead in a climb and announced the door popped open. At about the intersection of the two runways the plane banked steep to the left (downwind turn). Appears the aircraft stalled coming out of the turn. Flightaware showed it leveling at around 500'. There's some conjecture that the plane partially recovered from the stall as it clipped the tops of two evergreens and appeared to hit down down hard with level wings and skid 100 feet into parked cars, just off the airport property into a retirement community.

The airport rescue vehicle arrived (solo fireman) in about 3 minutes and started dumping water into the cabin believing there were people inside. The worst of the fire was on the right wing (door side of the aircraft). The Township Fire Truck arrived within another minute of two (just 1/2 mile down the road from the airport and fireman were at the station on a Sunday) and dumped foam.

Apparently all five occupants got out on their own, and the son may have needed some assistance. It's presumed the Dad helped because allegedly he's receives burns on over 30% of his body, and is now in a medicated coma. The son was operated on yesterday for a back injury. Mom's condition not known. The two girls in the back were released out of a burn center yesterday.

This information on conditions was from a close friend of the family, and not the news media which has been all over the place on info. I had a beer yesterday late afternoon with an airport fireman who was off on Sunday, but well familiar.

Friends, family, and locals here are considering this an absolute survival miracle. An elderly lady from the home ran out with blankets and helped roll and wrap some of the smoking people. Not sure about the Mom, Dad and son but we are hearing all are expected to survive. A lot of praying going on around here!
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Too late for an edit...but need to correct the altitude during the tight turn, based upon a friend more familiar with ADS-B and Flightaware data points. The approximate 500' altitude max and brief level off was based on an ADS-B readout of MSL, not AGL. With an airport elevation of 403' he almost completed the 180 degree turn, with the 100' impact ground skid approximately parallel to R/W 13.

I don't like second guessing any pilots' misfortune, but at this point in it appears the pilot cleared a few 30' to 40' high buildings containing elderly residents by an altitude of no higher than approximately 100' to maybe 150' (depending upon the ADS-B barometer calculation) higher than the rooftops. We'll see how this investigation shakes out...
 
Update on this incident. The two most burned occupants were the front seat pilot and his college aged son. Thankfully they survived and are now out of the burn center. The other four passengers received minor burns and were home within a few days of the crash.

Apparently there were six occupants in total, with the four in the rear being one adult (the Mom) and three High School age girls. Depending upon the weight of the Jet A, and the amount of baggage going with the son to drop off at college in Ohio, weight and balance may be a factor in this crash.

There is some video available taken from a resident of the retirement home currently in the hands of the NTSB that apparently shows the aircraft in a steep turn to the left (initiated prior to the end of the runway), then some rough maneuvering just over the roof tops of a couple of 2 to 3 story retirement buildings, then a descent, followed by a short pop-up, then a full stall preceding into a steep low altitude crash into a parking lot (with about a 100' skid into a couple of parked cars).

Amazing anyone survived, let alone having all being able (to the best of my knowledge and hope) to live full lives.
 
Last night the local television news reported the pilot claims (NTSB Preliminary Report?) he mistakenly pulled the throttle backwards instead of pushing it forwards during the low altitude turn onto downwind, as his son was attempting to secure the slightly opened door.
 
Rick A said:
Last night the local television news reported the pilot claims (NTSB Preliminary Report?) he mistakenly pulled the throttle backwards instead of pushing it forwards during the low altitude turn onto downwind, as his son was attempting to secure the slightly opened door.
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That confirms my initial statement:

Ed Haywood said:
If you cannot handle an open door in anything less than an F16, you probably should not be a pilot.
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Seems to be some reliable local information regarding the pilot that is no surprise (to me) if entirely true. Very low total time pilot with hours spread over many years (150 to 250 hours?). Recently purchased the Tradewinds Turbine Bo to replace his Tiger. Very successful business owner / investor recently became part-owner of Part 135 multi-jet charter operation.

Keeping the Bonanza "Doctor Killer" legend alive?
 
Oh boy... as the information being gathered about this incident gets more detailed and reliable, it gets more disturbing as time rolls on...

The owner / pilots total flying hours was much closer to 150 hours than 250. The pilot was self-insured (obviously) and naked (insurance wise). The environmental cleanup cost was $850,000. Nine parked cars were destroyed along with the $1.2 million aircraft. It was the pilot's third flight ever in this aircraft.

Certainly an expensive lesson. The financial loss is large, but the gift of everyone involved surviving was a truly priceless benefit.
 
Rick A said:
Oh boy... as the information being gathered about this incident gets more detailed and reliable, it gets more disturbing as time rolls on...

The owner / pilots total flying hours was much closer to 150 hours than 250. The pilot was self-insured (obviously) and naked (insurance wise). The environmental cleanup cost was $850,000. Nine parked cars were destroyed along with the $1.2 million aircraft. It was the pilot's third flight ever in this aircraft.

Certainly an expensive lesson. The financial loss is large, but the gift of everyone involved surviving was a truly priceless benefit.
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Rather infuriating to take family and family friends with that overall experience but even moreso with the lack of experience in that very niche high performance craft. More money than brains.
 
Final report out. Not much incremental other than they took off over max gross weight, pilot pulled the throttle in climb out and just froze and crashed the plane
 
Report lists pilot as 555 hrs, 70 in make/model, and 500 lbs over max gross.
Glad they all survived, sorry they had injuries. The video is kinda terrifying.
 
Ahh, the old pilots flew with overload all the time. Just don't bend the plane. But you gotta fly the plane first, don't miss handle the throttle. Sounds like this guy brain farted when he needed to be Chuk Yeager.
 
david.h said:
Ahh, the old pilots flew with overload all the time. Just don't bend the plane. But you gotta fly the plane first, don't miss handle the throttle. Sounds like this guy brain farted when he needed to be Chuk Yeager.
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He wouldn't have needed to be Chuck Yeager if he would have just continued flying straight ahead, then returned to the airport and landed when the surprise factor was gone and he regained the ability to fly.

Some of the pilots who know him claimed he had a lot less than the 555 total flight time hours listed on the NTSB report. It's amazing they all survived. The pilot and son up front got the worst of the burns which were quite serious and required over a month in the burn center. The passengers received minor burns and were home within a day or two.
 
Jim K said:
How do you even do that? I can understand 100, but 500? And here I am, weighing the kid's tablets and headsets.
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The W&B in the NTSB docket raises some questions about assumptions they started from, including being 120 lbs high on the fuel calculation. But other than having full tanks, the loading sheet says:

Seat 1 = 170
Seat 2 = 170
Seat 3 = 40
Seat 4 = 150
Seat 5 = 150
Seat 6 = 150
Baggage behind seats = 70
Total payload = 900 lbs

Those all read like estimates, not actual known weights.

The NTSB included 6 gallons of unusable fuel and they multiplied by 6.7 lbs/gal (Jet-A?). So they have 120 gal x 6.7 lbs/gal = 804 lbs and I calculate 114 gal x 6 lbs/gal = 684 lbs.

With a UL of 1183 lbs, though, having a payload of about 900 lbs should have made them think hard about filling the tanks all the way up regardless of whether it would put them 390 lbs over max gross or 510.

And then there are pilots who keep a luggage scale in the plane, and probably know how much the luggage scale weighs, as well.
 
Good catch on the fuel weight per gallon the report used. The NTSB didn’t do a correct W&B? Yikes.

What about credit for the removed middle row seat where 40 lbs of luggage was located? Did the 2467 lbs empty weight listed account for that?
 
david.h said:
Ahh, the old pilots flew with overload all the time. Just don't bend the plane. But you gotta fly the plane first, don't miss handle the throttle. Sounds like this guy brain farted when he needed to be Chuk Yeager.
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He brain-farted a long time before he needed to be Chuck anyone.
 
AV8R_87 said:
That plane was a turboprop conversion.
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Thanks. I didn’t notice that in my focus on the W&B. They’re still off by 6 gallons (40 lbs). Do you know if they got the max gross for the plane correct? The only thing I know about turbine Bonanazas is that there is one fewer of them now, and I only just learned that.
 
TrueCourse said:
Good catch on the fuel weight per gallon the report used. The NTSB didn’t do a correct W&B? Yikes.

What about credit for the removed middle row seat where 40 lbs of luggage was located? Did the 2467 lbs empty weight listed account for that?
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I find it hard to believe that this report was published and disseminated with multiple misspellings. IMO, that casts a shadow on other more technical and pertinent information shared.

Maybe I'm old school, but if the FedGov is going to hire people who cannot spell, can't someone in the organization at least proofread and fact check an official document before it's released?
 
Rick A said:
I find it hard to believe that this report was published and disseminated with multiple misspellings. IMO, that casts a shadow on other more technical and pertinent information shared.

Maybe I'm old school, but if the FedGov is going to hire people who cannot spell, can't someone in the organization at least proofread and fact check an official document before it's released?
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I think it says more about how little they care about light GA. They know no one but a few enthusiasts on an internet forum will pay any attention to this, so why spend time on it?

I also missed the first time that this was a turbine conversion. That may explain the weight. I think the Piper Jetprop conversions are similar in that they can only legally carry a couple people, but are routinely stuffed way above max gross. 3650 gross in a 450 HP Bo does seem a little silly. My 300hp Lance is certified for 3600, and my understanding is that the Bo is much stronger. Regardless, to quote Dean Wormer, "overweight and aft CG is no way to fly, son."

From the report for reference:

Weight and balance-FAA calculations-Rel.jpg
 
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