BFR PIC?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by JonH, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. JonH

    JonH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm a PPL that hasn't flown in the preceding 90 days and my last flight review was one year ago. I moved, so I do not have access to an airplane to knock out three landings before my next flight which is a BFR/checkout ride with a DPE.

    I would not log this flight review as PIC time, correct?
     
  2. asicer

    asicer Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Why not? The DPE isn't a passenger, he/she is a CFI providing instruction, right?
     
  3. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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  4. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    So if I’m reading this right you don’t NEED a BFR (that’s every TWO years, bieannual flight review), you would need to do some take off and landings which you could do on your own, OR with a CFI, not sure why you’d do a BFR or get some refresher training with a DPE (that’s a examiner). Now if you did do a BFR or just got night current alone or with a CFI you would log it as PIC.

    But as it stands all you need, if I’m reading this correctly, is just to get day/night current and probably just knock a little rust off.

    As far as getting checked out in a plane, normally that is also done with a CFI, not a DPE, and is normally just to prove you can handle the plane and for any differences training required if you haven’t flown that exact model/avionics/etc before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  5. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    Why not? Are you going to be pilot in command or is the instructor?
    And your Flight Review doesn't necessarily need to be with a DPE, just a CFI.
     
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  6. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Just make sure you are safety pilot in IMC and your friend has his foggles on.
     
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  7. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  8. chartbundle

    chartbundle Pattern Altitude

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    Even better I think we're up to at least a 90% rate of answering it right.
     
  9. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    None of which is relevant towards the questions: "Are you rated in the aircraft?" and "Are you the sole manipulator?".
     
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  10. IK04

    IK04 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    BIENNIAL.
     
  11. JonH

    JonH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks for the responses. I know it's a stupid question. I was going to not log the time as PIC to be safe instead of sorry.

    That is the reg I am looking for. I'll keep looking, I remember reading or hearing of such a thing I just can't find it.

    I should have clarified, I don't need the BFR, or a DPE. That's just what I have available to me, and will act as a checkout ride so I can rent. So really what I need is a checkout ride. My flight club that I left (because I moved out of the area) required flight reviews every 12 calendar months. Ever since I've been doing one once per year with a CFI.

    That's my question to you lol. If the DPE can be a passenger with a PPL that hasn't had three landings in 90 days then yes I will be PIC. The DPE is because someone else is paying for it. Normally I wouldn't do such a thing. It's a gift and I'm looking forward to it.
     
  12. kath

    kath Administrator Management Council Member

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    Option A: You tell the CFI: "Thanks for riding along with me and giving me some dual flight instruction. I'd like to serve as PIC today, since I'm appropriately certificated and rated and medical-ed, and my BFR hasn't expired yet. Even though it's been 90 days, you'll be my *instructor* today, and not a "passenger", so this is OK. Is that OK with you?" The CFI could agree. In fact, there might be some cases (like if the CFI doesn't have a medical), where he or she would have to insist on this.

    Option B: The CFI tells you: "Now, you and I both know that you're appropriately certificated and rated for this plane, and you're BFR hasn't expired yet. So you *could* serve as the PIC on this instructional flight. But I'd just feel more comfortable being PIC myself, as the instructor. I've got a valid medical and all that. Is that OK with you?" And you could agree.

    In *both* options, you can LOG PIC for the flight, because you will be the sole manipulator of the controls, for an aircraft that you are appropriately certificated/rated in (category and class).

    And because both are valid options, it's a conversation that should take place (one way or the other) with the CFI before the flight, so that everyone knows who the PIC is.

    Edit: I'm assuming here that the "DPE" is also a CFI, and is going to be exercising CFI privileges (giving instruction) during the flight...

    Edit2: If the place has its own 12-month checkout rules and the like, then their insurance policy will almost certainly insist on Option B for a flight like this. But again, you can still log it PIC.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  13. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I thought you were asking whether you can log PIC for the flight. @Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe gave the exact one sentence answer to that, the only two questions which matter:
    As a private pilot, answer both "yes" and you may log PIC. Period. No if, ands, buts, limitations or other considerations. Not even whether you actually are PIC

    If you have another question, that's OK, but understand it is completely unrelated.
     
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  14. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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  15. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think you need to fix it by adding a whole bunch of additional questions that don't matter :D
     
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  16. idahoflier

    idahoflier Cleared for Takeoff

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    Just let the CFI/DPE/Whatever fill out the logbook entry... ;-)
     
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  17. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel En-Route

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    Rated in cat/class and sole manipulator is all it takes to log PIC. Doesn't matter how many landings you've had in the last 90 days. Doesn't matter when your last BFR was. Doesn't matter if you've got a valid medical. If you're rated to fly that category and class of aircraft and you're sole manipulator of the controls, you can log it as PIC.
     
  18. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You're fine to log it as PIC.
     
  19. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    See, I'm not sure any of us know what you are asking or are looking for. I'll take a shot. Are you asking:
    "Do I need to be current for carrying passengers to act as pilot in command on an instructional flight with a CFI?" (DPEs are also CFIs)​

    If that's your question the answer is "no, you do not. Neither of you do." It's not a reg. It's a series of two Chief Counsel letters saying that, on an instructional flight, neither the CFI nor the trainee is considered to be a passenger.
     
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  20. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    I should just make a website and make it so they don't even have to follow any lines. Just answer questions. And litter it with ads.
     
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  21. idahoflier

    idahoflier Cleared for Takeoff

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    Quick! Patent it now so you can sell an app and then FF can pay you royalties when they incorporate the logic in an upgrade...
     
  22. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Biennial=every two years. Bi-annual=twice per year. No longer called "BFR", just "Flight Review".
     
  23. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    This is an entertaining thread. :D
     
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  24. JonH

    JonH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ah, so it's not a reg. Thank you, I've been wondering the source of this information for a couple weeks now.

    Thanks for your time guys.
     
  25. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Officially, it was always so. There was a time (roughly coincident with the creation of the recreational pilot certificate) that the flight reviews would be annual for anyone under 400 hours without an instrument rating. They kept pushing the effective date on that one progressively into the future until they abolished it entirely.
     
  26. C-1 PILOT

    C-1 PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m on my 3rd bowl of popcorn.
     
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  27. C-1 PILOT

    C-1 PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m going out on a limb here. So, you moved, I’m assuming you are getting a checkout in a rental aircraft, is this correct? If so, once you get checked out by the CFI, you would be good to rent the aircraft and during the checkout, you completed at least 3 take offs and landings to a full stop...you’re good to go to rent and fly passengers.

    Your BFR would still be at your previous 2 year mark, unless of course, the CFI accomplished all the BFR areas during the checkout, then your date changes two years from that date.

    If I’m mistaken in my assumption, I apologize, but based on you post, the above is my read of your situation.

    ***NOTE*** I am not a CFI, nor do I play one on TV. Just this pilots take on your post.
     
  28. IK04

    IK04 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yep, except Bi-Annual is not a word. That would be Semiannual...

    It doesn't matter any more anyway, since they are now just called a "Flight Review."

    I see now why the FAA eliminated the term. Arguing over spelling, grammar and diction has no place in aviation, right? :cool::p:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  29. JonH

    JonH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes, I moved and don't own an airplane so I'm on the prowl for rentals. The review counts as a checkout, I may or may not rent from them but the option is there. I will definitely knock out the 3 landings during the review.
     
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  30. C-1 PILOT

    C-1 PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

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    There, so simple...A Caveman can do it! I wish I spotted and chimed in to this post earlier. Could have saved a lot of unneeded key strokes.

    Well, good luck to you on your renewed flying and BFR.
     
  31. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Haven't been here long, huh? :D
     
  32. davidgfern

    davidgfern Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No.... both are valid and mean "every two years." Twice per year is "semi-annual."
     
  33. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    0B30197C-6952-470A-9FB6-FF31401AB2CF.png
     
  34. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    Now that's funny right there. I don't care who you are. :D
     
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  35. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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  36. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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  37. PPC1052

    PPC1052 Final Approach

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    Well, rather than cry about it, why don't you do something constructive. Maybe you could write up a page that summarizes what you could log. If you were really nice, you might even add a link to your signature line.
     
  38. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I think he did have his logging PIC flowchart at some point in his signature.
     
  39. PPC1052

    PPC1052 Final Approach

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    Yes. That is the source of the joke.
     
  40. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    LOL. You mean something like The Definitive PIC Thread that management didn't sticky?
    :rofl: