As a commercial pilot student can I fly for IOU's?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
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First Officer 6PC
I got to thinking. Obviously I can't charge people money for flights
Yet....

But could I give people plane rides and charge them IOUs and then once I get my commercial cert they can make good on the IOU?

Feel like I'm coming up with a pretty good business plan here.
 
I think that unlike in the prostitution world, the FAA views goods and services the same as cash. But I'm not the right person to ask.

Or to answer, but this is the POA, so....
 
The FAA would not allow me to give flight training away as it was considered marketing.

I was waiting on a letter of deviation authority so I could teach in an experimental amateur built gyroplane.

The FAA appears to me to have a broad definition of compensation that falls well outside of standard accounting principles.
 
I see another punch in your Frequent FSDO Visitor card…………and another video coming. :)
 
Sorry, but since you can't charge for flights in your airplane, even with a commercial certificate...
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I got to thinking. Obviously I can't charge people money for flights
Yet....

But could I give people plane rides and charge them IOUs and then once I get my commercial cert they can make good on the IOU?

Feel like I'm coming up with a pretty good business plan here.
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I’ve been looking for a new business too. You’ll need to collect on those IOU’s. Maybe I can help you with that. Body parts, like kneecaps may be involved in collecting the ‘loot’.:ihih:
 
New FAA interpretation just in: an IOU is worth the paper it is written on and is considered compensation. :)
 
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I think this is a great idea! If the FAA says something stupid like "You can't do that, because ..." tell them you got it approved and signed off on by the PoA members.

But I do have an improvement to suggest.

Instead of saying:
IOU SixPapaCharlie $250 for flight pay. (or whatever the magic phrasing is)

Phrase it as:
IOU SixPapaCharlie 1.25hrs of flight pay.

While it should come out to the same thing now (you don't want to cheat a customer, after all), the genius part is that you are going to be collecting in the future, not the present. Unless flight costs go down in the future (Good luck with that!) you will actually be able to collect $475 just a few years from now. And if you wait even longer to get your Comm ticket, it will be even more. Think of it as a quality investment in your future.

EDIT

Another thing, there would be no requirement to cash in the IOUs as soon as you get your Comm ticket, so you could let them sit and mature even more while you work and get your Comm pay!
 
Is an IOU a thing of value?

I'm legitimately unsure since neither the drug dealers nor the prostitutes take them. Or so I'm told. By @eman1200.
 
FDSO (dangling a photocopy of a check menacingly): Mr. Papa Charlie, what is this?

6PC: A check. But... but it bounced.

FDSO: Nice try, son. Scrap paper has a value of three cents per pound. Face the wall, put your hands on your head. You have anything in your pockets that will poke me or stick me? Any weapons or drugs on you?

6PC: Neener neener, you didn't read me my Miranda rights. I want an att-tooorrrr-ney.

FDSO: Rights? Attorney? Pfft. Who the hell do you think we are?
 
“I think this is a great idea! If the FAA says something stupid like "You can't do that, because ..." tell them you got it approved and signed off on by the PoA members.”

We can do that?
 
Lon33 said:
“I think this is a great idea! If the FAA says something stupid like "You can't do that, because ..." tell them you got it approved and signed off on by the PoA members.”

We can do that?
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I'm not aware of any FAA document or ruling that specifically says we can't...
 
Lon33 said:
“I think this is a great idea! If the FAA says something stupid like "You can't do that, because ..." tell them you got it approved and signed off on by the PoA members.”

We can do that?
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Absolutely! What weight it has is a separate question…
 
midlifeflyer said:
Sorry, but since you can't charge for flights in your airplane, even with a commercial certificate...
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I think you can if the flight is coincident to your business and less than 20 seats. Or if you make them equity or non-equity owners of your aircraft. As long as you don't advertise.... Complicated. Better to just work for someone else. As to IOU’s?? I think crypto is the best way to go here.
 
:) I think this time you might meet both the FAA and IRS, but it sounds like an excellent plan to me. If you advertise it as a service that caters to those who "aren't otherwise eligible to fly" you might even be able to add 2 or 3 more agencies to the list.

For you defense, you might be able to claim that because your friends have no sense of morality, their IOU's are essentially without value, and your real plan was simply to bring together a community of pilots without ethics.
 
Knowing Bryan, he’ll get called to the FSDO for Holding In

And the video will be discussing the pros and cons of Common Law Carriage where the pilot and his passengers just live together
 
Rockymountain said:
I think you can if the flight is coincident to your business and less than 20 seats. Or if you make them equity or non-equity owners of your aircraft. As long as you don't advertise.... Complicated.
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No, you can't be compensated by passengers if the flight is coincident to your business. That's basic 61.113(b). You can't even do it under the broader permissiveness of 91.501.

There are ways, but none of them other than proper sharing under 61.113(c) amount to charging someone for a flight in your airplane with you as the pilot. And doing them properly might not be worth the legal fees.
 
Lon33 said:
“I think this is a great idea! If the FAA says something stupid like "You can't do that, because ..." tell them you got it approved and signed off on by the PoA members.”

We can do that?
Click to expand...

Only if you have your authorization card. It should have been tucked in the pocket of your POA shirt.
 
6PC should get way more familiar with the regs prior attempting to pass his check ride
 
Why just IOU and breaking one set of laws? He should be getting paid in IOUs for “favours” and break more laws. Heck get IOUs for “favours” in exchange for flying “goods ” from Mexico while he’s at it.

Was the question even serious?
 
SebIp said:
Why just IOU and breaking one set of laws? He should be getting paid in IOUs for “favours” and break more laws. Heck get IOUs for “favours” in exchange for flying “goods ” from Mexico while he’s at it.

Was the question even serious?
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Absolutely. Aviation is no place for silliness.
 
jsstevens said:
Only with New Balance shoes. The devil is in the details...
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My youngest insists that these are "Dad Shoes".
It's not like they are Velcro for crying out loud...


61mSq0EbnaL._AC_UY575_.jpg
 
Hope our good friend Briyan doesn’t get another nastygram from the FAA.
 
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