Are Large or small jets easier to fly?

Clark1961 said:
A couple Asian operators agree with you.
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I've flown with guys who call hand flying "Scary Mode" and pure visual "Super Scary Mode".

So instead of "Autopiloy coming off" it's "Engaging Scary Mode". Then when he wanted the FD off he would say "Engage Super Scary Mode".
 
ARFlyer said:
I've flown with guys who call hand flying "Scary Mode" and pure visual "Super Scary Mode".

So instead of "Autopiloy coming off" it's "Engaging Scary Mode". Then when he wanted the FD off he would say "Engage Super Scary Mode".
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That sounds a little scary for us self loading freight.

What would cure the perception that hand flying is difficult or somehow particularly challenging? Leaving the MD-11 out of the conversation for awhile of course...
 
ARFlyer said:
I've flown with guys who call hand flying "Scary Mode" and pure visual "Super Scary Mode".

So instead of "Autopiloy coming off" it's "Engaging Scary Mode". Then when he wanted the FD off he would say "Engage Super Scary Mode".
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Lol I hope they are kidding. This is why I don’t trust airline pilots! Those guys are dangerous!!!!!!! :stirpot:
 
CC268 said:
Lol I hope they are kidding. This is why I don’t trust airline pilots! Those guys are dangerous!!!!!!! :stirpot:
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Clark1961 said:
That sounds a little scary for us self loading freight.

What would cure the perception that hand flying is difficult or somehow particularly challenging? Leaving the MD-11 out of the conversation for awhile of course...
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I guess the smiley faces didn't upload. My bad!!

It's a joke among most of us that some guys find visual hand flown approaches scary. I love doing visuals. The autopilot frankly sucks in these planes when it's anything but dead calm skies.

The issue hit a head in the mid 90s when AA slammed a 75 into a ridge. Up to that point airlines were teaching that hand flying was unsafe for 99% of the time. After that crash AA flipped sides and said to hand fly vs dicking with the autopilot. Unfortunately, we still have "Children of the Magenta" that will dick with the autopilot tell they smack upon Mother Earth.

I don't trust the autopilot especially after it tried to kill me a few months ago. So if it does anything funny I kill it and hand fly the rest of the landing.
 
The spoilers on the lear are annoying
 
Joking aside there are examples of guys who aren’t particularly good pilots in the airline world. Those examples are part of why I took your post as sorta serious. In some ways this is no different from any other profession. In other ways consequences of airline pilots’ decisions and actions on every flight can exceed nearly every other profession (Russian nuclear reactor designers and operators excepted). Does the 1000/1250/1500 hour requirement remedy the situation? Should ICAO requirements be strengthened to reflect that level of experience?
 
Bradley W said:
The spoilers on the lear are annoying
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The Lear? Which one?
What did your instructor teach you about them?
What does your ops manual say about them?
Is there a design flaw that you want them to fix?
Is there a certain mode that they are more annoying in?
 
Okay, so maybe he IS trolling.

I still stand by my flight sim thoughts earlier...
 
ARFlyer said:
I've flown with guys who call hand flying "Scary Mode" and pure visual "Super Scary Mode".

So instead of "Autopiloy coming off" it's "Engaging Scary Mode". Then when he wanted the FD off he would say "Engage Super Scary Mode".
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I usually say, “Autopilot off, bad pilot flying.”
 
ARFlyer said:
Go try to land that CRJ-700 in FSX in the real world without slamming the gear. I bet your first few attempts will be quite rough.
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What a classic 700 procedure, I could grease the 200 on, the 900 I had down but the 700, I think it’s one of the hardest planes to land well consistently, those gear right behind the point of rotation, try to squeeze some extra flare for that smooth touch down, nope, gear to the ground.

As some others have mentioned there’s differences. I found the CRJ-900 particularly very easy and enjoyable to fly, I also had a lot of time in it so I learned it really well. Now I fly the 757 and I will say it’s also easy in it’s own way. They all are different. I can’t say ones easier than the other but once you learn the plane and get your comfort up in it you view that as simple. If I went back to the CRJ now I probably wouldn’t think it’s so easy anymore cause I haven’t flown it in a long time

To further detail the question small planes to large planes it all varies, larger planes can be more stable, smaller can be more nimble each of those traits has a time to shine and a time not to. I thought the CRJ-200 was the easiest plane I have ever flown to ever land, more so than a Cessna 172 even. And I take some of my airline friends flying in my 182 every now and then and it’s comical to watch these guys and gals try to get used to a piston single again. All flying is different and all flying is difficult and/or easy in its own way.
 
The only jet I ever flew (more than just some stick time) was a small one, a L-39. It was my second easiest plane to fly, behind a SF-260. Both stable, very responsive, easy landers. The Cessna 182 I used to fly was a wallowing pig in comparison - stable, yes, but sluggish, poor control harmony, and bad vis.
 
OP definitely a troll. When waiting in a tug for the planes to show up at the hangar for the overnight checks watching the planes land it was 727 normal landing, super 80 all over the place and bouncing down runway. This happened several times. We were WTF until we noticed a bunch of guys by the ILS shack. Apparently the approaches were being hand flown, ILS inop. 727 guys were able to hand fly, super 80 guys not so much.
 
Clark1961 said:
Joking aside there are examples of guys who aren’t particularly good pilots in the airline world. Those examples are part of why I took your post as sorta serious.
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But you are seriously right.
There are many pilots who aren't good at piloting airplanes. They have been referred to here many times as "button-pushers". If every pilot knew how to hand-fly the airplane properly, you'd see a dramatic decrease in crashes, airlines or not.
 
For those laughing at airline types landings....try this. Max landing weight Vref over the numbers in an MD11 is 171 - 173 knots and my eye height at the point of touchdown is 43 feet above the runway. We would laugh at you landing ours but we would too busy trying to recover the crash.
 
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MD11Pilot said:
For those laughing at airline types landings....try this. Max landing weight Vref over the numbers in an MD11 is 171 - 173 knots and my eye height at the point of touchdown is 43 feet above the runway. We would laugh at you landing ours but we would too busy trying to recover the crash.
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I think the point is that guys flying transport category forget how to fly a teensy plane. I'm sure most of them started out flying little ones. My neighbor drives the 777 and has no interest flying unless he's getting paid. Flys Mia to s America, three times a month, max.
 
And the small guys don’t have a clue to what’s involved in airline flying! I am a life long civilian pilot, own my own small plane now and work on it. My point is that it is different and unless one is doing both then laughing at the landings is just secretly wishing they were there. It is just a lack of knowledge about the differences. I fly with guys who never flew piston aircraft except in primary in the military and have no desire to fly outside work..good for them.
Laugh away...I still do...it’s fun but ....it’s different and so regulated.

And when I sit in my Bonanza, I say to myself...”you’re not in an MD11 and I don’t have to be anywhere at any specific time”. I don’t have that luxury at work...typhoons, hurricanes, lines of thunderstorms. CAT 3 approach down to to ceiling 0 and 300 RVR, snow etc. I go. Or I don’t feed my family. I understand why some guys just don’t want to be around a plane when their off. With the company and the Feds second guessing every word and action...it loses its fun factor.
 
MD11Pilot said:
And the small guys don’t have a clue to what’s involved in airline flying! I am a life long civilian pilot, own my own small plane now and work on it. My point is that it is different and unless one is doing both then laughing at the landings is just secretly wishing they were there. It is just a lack of knowledge about the differences. I fly with guys who never flew piston aircraft except in primary in the military and have no desire to fly outside work..good for them.
Laugh away...I still do...it’s fun but ....it’s different and so regulated.

And when I sit in my Bonanza, I say to myself...”you’re not in an MD11 and I don’t have to be anywhere at any specific time”. I don’t have that luxury at work...typhoons, hurricanes, lines of thunderstorms. CAT 3 approach down to to ceiling 0 and 300 RVR, snow etc. I go. Or I don’t feed my family. I understand why some guys just don’t want to be around a plane when their off. With the company and the Feds second guessing every word and action...it loses its fun factor.
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Sounds SCARY! :eek: Hope I'm not flying through hurricanes and tornadoes and typhoons at the airlines :(
 
MD11Pilot said:
I understand why some guys just don’t want to be around a plane when their off. With the company and the Feds second guessing every word and action...it loses its fun factor.
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I still love small airplane GA. I just brought a Gulfstream back from Stockholm, Sweden, yesterday morning and I'm here at home in NJ waiting for the snow to stop so I can go to the hangar and play with my tiny little airplane.

I've tried really hard not to let the fact that aviation is my job destroy my love for it. I figure if I still love this stuff 27 years after I started, I picked the right job and hobby.

But to your point, it does lose a little fun factor when it's such a liability to go fly around VFR. I'm always nervous about making a mistake that will hurt me professionally.
 
MD11Pilot said:
My point is that it is different and unless one is doing both then laughing at the landings is just secretly wishing they were there. It is just a lack of knowledge about the differences.
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Amen. I have been rolling my eyes at the "airline captains can't land a Cessna 172" threads for as long as I've been reading them.

You can get that guy up to speed with 15 minutes of dual. The act of physically piloting a small GA piston aircraft is easy. And he's done it before, maybe just out of practice.

The Cessna 172 pilot would be dramatically out of his element on the flight deck of a mulit-crewmember turbojet aircraft. There's no conceivable path to get him proficient aside from the slow journey we all took from piston aircraft to jets, ultimately arriving at PIC type ratings and captain designations. It would take years to get him there, and dozens if not hundreds of hours just to make him a minimal liability in the right seat of the jet in a simple approach profile -- not even handling the flight controls.

Pretty silly comparison/discussion in my view.
 
It is silly to try and compare, two totally environments. In my case, I hadn't flown a GA plane in years. Retired from a regional airline after flying the CRJ900, and went out to the local airport after a couple years of not flying anything at all. Scheduled a FR and check out so I could rent, and it went well. A little rusty but I didn't ding the C172. Now a year or so later I'm doing a little instructing and pleasure flying.
 
mscard88 said:
It is silly to try and compare, two totally environments. In my case, I hadn't flown a GA plane in years. Retired from a regional airline after flying the CRJ900, and went out to the local airport after a couple years of not flying anything at all. Scheduled a FR and check out so I could rent, and it went well. A little rusty but I didn't ding the C172. Now a year or so later I'm doing a little instructing and pleasure flying.
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yup....it's like comparing buses to sports cars......two totally different operating skills.:confused:
 
Ryan F. said:
I still love small airplane GA. I just brought a Gulfstream back from Stockholm, Sweden, yesterday morning and I'm here at home in NJ waiting for the snow to stop so I can go to the hangar and play with my tiny little airplane.

I've tried really hard not to let the fact that aviation is my job destroy my love for it. I figure if I still love this stuff 27 years after I started, I picked the right job and hobby.

But to your point, it does lose a little fun factor when it's such a liability to go fly around VFR. I'm always nervous about making a mistake that will hurt me professionally.
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Another airline driver friend of mine who has a bonanza always files ifr and stays in the system for that very reason.
 
Paulie said:
Another airline driver friend of mine who has a bonanza always files ifr and stays in the system for that very reason.
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I fly my wife and kids down to FL from NJ and back on a regular basis... we go IFR of course. Any trip of any appreciable distance, I file. It's definitely a lot less stressful.
 
MD11Pilot said:
For those laughing at airline types landings....try this. Max landing weight Vref over the numbers in an MD11 is 171 - 173 knots and my eye height at the point of touchdown is 43 feet above the runway. We would laugh at you landing ours but we would too busy trying to recover the crash.
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Douglas took a bad airplane and made it worse. When I was at American they got their first MD-11(mechanic's nickname-scud) at the hangar with the big shots there, half way in it starting dumping fuel through the vents. Pushed outside where it sat for 3 months while Douglas worked on it. Promptly sold all of them to FedEx.
At the rate FedEx has been destroying then I'm surprised any are left.
 
Paulie said:
Douglas took a bad airplane and made it worse. When I was at American they got their first MD-11(mechanic's nickname-scud) at the hangar with the big shots there, half way in it starting dumping fuel through the vents. Pushed outside where it sat for 3 months while Douglas worked on it. Promptly sold all of them to FedEx.
At the rate FedEx has been destroying then I'm surprised any are left.
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I believe Delta's handful were sold to FedEx too. Always heard the range was not what was promised, and Delta wanted to go from ATL to the Far East nonstop. I'm sure there were other reasons, just what I had heard.
 
Ryan F. said:
I've tried really hard not to let the fact that aviation is my job destroy my love for it. I figure if I still love this stuff 27 years after I started, I picked the right job and hobby..[/UOTE]
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Airline flying almost ruined it for me, but I'm back now and enjoying it.

I think @EvilEagle has the best set-up, airline pilot, F-15 jock, and owns a Bonanza! ;):D​
 
mscard88 said:
I believe Delta's handful were sold to FedEx too. Always heard the range was not what was promised, and Delta wanted to go from ATL to the Far East nonstop. I'm sure there were other reasons, just what I had heard.
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True, range and payload were not as promised, law suits ensued. Pushed Douglas over the edge, but I heard that the Boeing buyout was more like Douglas buying Boeing with boeings money.
 
Scud, Maintenance Delay11 and many other names. Good friend is an aeronautical engineer and he can’t wait for me to retire and get away from it. He can spend hours showing you how it is a terrible plane. Yep, a decent airplane DC10 to a less than stellar one with the 11. Range? I have been 12 hours but not much freight. Douglas even changed the orientation of the windshield wipers from horizontal to vertical to try to get a few more miles out of it. If our schedules hadn’t gotten so bad, I would have never left the 767.
 
mscard88 said:
Airline flying almost ruined it for me, but I'm back now and enjoying it.

I think @EvilEagle has the best set-up, airline pilot, F-15 jock, and owns a Bonanza! ;):D​
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Thanks fellas. I am still on the books at Delta, but back full-time F-15'ing for about another 2.5 years (till retirement #1) and then I'll hang up the old G-suit to just fly Delta, the Bo and warbirds. hashtag warbirdsrule :D
 
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