AOPA: DON’T RECORD MORE THAN WHAT’S REQUIRED

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by WannFly, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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  2. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    yup....just the facts...it's not a journal.
     
  3. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    i normally record pax initials too and flight conditions, guess i will start omitting pax details or just put initials that only i can decipher
     
  4. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    well....your PAX become witnesses and then can be interviewed should there be an investigation.
     
  5. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    hmm... didnt think about that. good point
     
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  6. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    As the article points out, a "logbook" is simply a record maintained "to provide a reliable record of aeronautical training and experience". As it also states, there is no law that says you have to log every flight. There are logbooks and then there are logbooks.

    There is no law preventing keeping multiple logbooks. I keep my times in various forms. After each flight I send a text to my wife telling her Hobbs time, conditions, landings, tail number, Student name (if applicable), and any maneuvers we may have accomplished. That, legally, is a logbook.

    I also keep a log in Garmin Pilot. The data it gathered only goes back a few years but it does have enough current information to show recency and currency. I did upload my Excel logbook into it when I started using it so it does contain every flight I have ever made.

    Then there is my actual book. The paper log into which all of my endorsements, Flight Reviews, etc are placed. I rarely update it on a daily basis and the last time I had to have a CFI sign a line, I had to count off several pages of blank lines in order to leave room for the flights I actually plan to write in there some day...

    If the FAA asks for my logbook, they had better be pretty specific which one they want... o_O
     
  7. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Yeah, whatever. When I get a blowjob in the air...it's getting logged!
     
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  8. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    When I was on a career path, it was important that I log every last minute of every last hour. Then I got that first job and logging every minute of every hour was even more important because it would be the key to being able to get that second job. By the third year of the first job, I no longer cared about logging anything. I don't know if I logged any of the flying for the second job. Then I got out of the biz. Since then, the only entries in my logbook have been currency related. No idea what my total hours are. Couldn't care less.
     
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  9. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    I've always thought that is a really sad place to get to as a pilot. A flight isn't complete until it's documented...never will be.
     
  10. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Sound a little chicken little to me
     
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  11. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    pretty empty logbook then?
     
  12. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    back when i was at a large regional there were a lot of career regional pilots there. even with a flow thru agreement with the parent major they had no intention of ever going anywhere. most of them would laugh when they saw me filling in my logbook (flight for flight no less). then the rumors of a divestiture started. It was funny watching them scramble it put together something of a log book in case they had to go interview with a new airline.
     
  13. wrbix

    wrbix Pattern Altitude

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    My insurance broker on renewal each year requests totals of hours flown and hours in owned aircraft...reason enough for me to keep a log.
     
  14. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Whatever. It’s my logbook, if I want to write notes in I’ll write notes in. I like looking back at what I’ve written sometimes.
     
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  15. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    OTOH, the insurance folks want to see time and proficiency, so that advice can backfire on you.
     
  16. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    That's why I have a recording tach! Actually, I think it probably undercounts loggable hours by 20%. If I was looking for a pro job, I'd probably do things differently.
     
  17. rtk11

    rtk11 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Whatever you do, don't write down that you've flown under a bridge like Roy Halladay did...
     
  18. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    Erase the missions! Erase the missions!
     
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  19. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I don’t have a place to sign the pages of my logbook, so it’s possible that somebody forged the entries.
     
  20. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    So what is required to remain current? Can simulators be used? If you lose currency must a BPC be administered by a Certified ...............
     
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  21. Lndwarrior

    Lndwarrior Line Up and Wait

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    I have logged every flight I have ever flown for the past 30 plus years. I have made comments from every flight. This is a part of my history and my passion for flying.

    Going thru life in fear of some future event is just stupid.

    I can't imagine what it must be like to be a lawyer. Always afraid that some small action may cost then their future. What a way to go thru life.

    While the FAA can demand your log book, they can't prosecute you if you lost it.

    Stupid article.
     
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  22. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    It is. But prevention is easy. Just make sure your paycheck comes from something that doesn't involve flying.
     
  23. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Providing this information does not require a logbook.
     
  24. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    I sometimes look in my old logbooks to remember certain people and events that made a significant impact in how I fly, think and deal with emergencies.

    There were also some fun and marginally stupid things I did that remind me of how lucky I am to still be alive...

    ...That one time I spun a C-150 33 turns from 13,000 feet. Yeah..............
     
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  25. Jim K

    Jim K Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    I read that article and gave it a hard eye roll. I love filling out my logbook, making notes of where, who & why. My hope is that when I have to hang up my headset some day I'll be able to look back and remember those special moments like taking my kids to Florida, or that getaway with my wife. Even more so I hope they keep them and use them to remember me when I'm gone.
     
  26. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't know any lawyers who thought that way. I've met a few. More were risk takers than not, in both business and life. Wait until another "I'm scared of liability so I never take passengers" thread comes along and you'll see who is afraid and who is not.

    What most do when advising clients is point out potential risk factors a client may not have thought of, but that's just knowledge — the choice of how much risk is acceptable is always the client's. In articles and seminars, which are not legal advice, many tend to be overly conservative.

    BTW, not a legal issue but I do know someone who was denied access to a non-equity aircraft arrangement because his logbook looked like a scrapbook.

    Funny, though... When I first began doing aviation law, I decided it would be a good idea to meet the FAA lawyer who handled cases in my area. So when he came to town we would sometimes go out to dinner. Over dinner and a beer we would trade stories about the stupid things we did as pilots.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
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  27. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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    I’ve logged all the names of the dogs I have flown for PnP. I don’t think the FAA will get them to talk.
     
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  28. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    I've been flying for a living for a while now, and I keep my logbook mostly up to date. The biggest reason is because of the insurance paperwork that I have to fill out every year. That is easy enough to fudge, but I'd rather give them accurate numbers if possible. It is still kind of neat to see when I pass another benchmark, like 5000 hours. I'm at 5300 now, and it's probably gonna be 3 years till I hit the next 1000.
     
  29. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Yeah, I joined the Solo Mile-High Club on 12 June 1997, as duly logged.
    My logbooks are journals, to be sure.
     
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  30. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you don’t keep a log how can you fill out the govt. survey ?
     
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  31. Computerjim

    Computerjim Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I log it all, time, place, PAX, aircraft. This for my memory bank. I find it fun to go back an discover what I was doing, where I have been, and who I was with over the past 45 years.
     
  32. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I know a lot of lawyers. While one or two tend to be worriers, they are in the vast minority. Most of them are the exact opposite.
     
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  33. Liberty Flyer

    Liberty Flyer Pre-Flight

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    For years I just photocopied the trip sheet and threw it into a box, always intending to put it in my logbook. The trip sheets all had the basic required information on them and notes I scribbled about the instrument approaches and actual IFR time. About the third or forth time I moved for the company, I realized I'd better get to it because by then I had four full file boxes of trip sheets and I was tired of hauling them around with me.
     
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  34. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter

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    Most people with any sense tend to be more conservative when giving advice in a public forum. Talk to them in person, or after it doesn't matter any more.

    I wrote extraneous information in my logbook, including the what company were were doing the flight for, and if anything unusual happened. In the early days when I was young, I used multicolored pens, so I have purple and green entries.
     
  35. Liberty Flyer

    Liberty Flyer Pre-Flight

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    For international flights we had to keep a journey log that included pax names and the purpose of the trip. It had to be kept for one year. This was a tax document. The master document for pond crossings was held for six months and then tossed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  36. WDD

    WDD Cleared for Takeoff

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    I wonder if providing the Excel sheet of the log book - which contain PIC, X Country hours, and the like - would suffice? That way the "notes" section wouldn't be offered.

    (Come to think of it, my handwriting is so bad - they probably couldn't read it anyway!)
     
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  37. WDD

    WDD Cleared for Takeoff

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    .... and if that wasn't enough, he put it on Face Book! Yikes. Paul Bertorelli AV Web did a great review of that incidence that I watched on YouTube last night. https://www.avweb.com/multimedia/votw/roy-halladay-crash-dissected/
     
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  38. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    The FAA doesn’t define what a logbook has to look like, so as long as your excel sheet shows what they need to see, it should be fine. I put mine on an excel spreadsheet, but anything that requires a signature is hard-copy in a separate book, so I’ve actually got two logbooks that I’d need to provide.
     
  39. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Be careful if you ever fly foxes - Lord knows what they might say!
     
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  40. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I do the same. I even keep the little trip logs that are common on the airline side. I'm not a particularly superstitious guy, but I've always thought that keeping my logs up to date helps keep furloughs away. I'll let you know later in the Fall how effective it is! :p