Annual inspections and log entries

Domenick

Domenick

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Domenick
Our planes have numerous logbooks, airframe, engine, propeller, avionics, and perhaps more.

At each annual inspection, does the annual inspection report/signoff in the airframe logbook suffice? If only inspections and no work or squawks turned up for the other items, do the other logbooks require entries?

My latest annual inspection, uncompleted (Grrr), revealed a number of previous annual inspections which were only signed off in the airframe logbook with no corresponding entries in the other logbooks. There were entries in the other logbooks for work preformed at various times.
 
No, you’re supposed to have an annual sign off for each item (airframe, engine, prop).
 
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I see it a lot. A bunch of older mechanics only sign off the airframe and either sign the engine and prop off as a 100 hr or just say they worked on it. You have to have the Annual Inspection Approval for each entry or it is unairworthy.
 
I guess this is worth the repeat - my answer in another forum.

There's no regulation requiring separate maintenance logbooks. It's about bookkeeping efficiency. As AC 43-9C puts it

Section 91.417(a)(1). Requires a record of maintenance for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. This does not require separate or individual records for each of these items. It does require the information specified in § 91.417(a)(1) through 91.417(a)(2)(vi) to be kept for each item as appropriate. As a practical matter, many owners and operators find it advantageous to keep separate or individual records since it facilitates transfer of the record with the item when ownership changes. Section 91.417(a)(1) has no counterpart in § 43.9 or § 43.11. (emphasis in the original)​
 
Domenick said:
Let us say, the aircraft enters the annual inspection airworthy and exits the annual inspection still airworthy. At no time was the anything "out of service." So, no entry other than the annual inspection results need be logged. True?
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True
 
Doc Holliday said:
True
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Sorry, I reread my question and it may not be clear, so I resubmit a clarified version:

Let us say, the aircraft enters the annual inspection airworthy and exits the annual inspection still airworthy. At no time was anything "out of service." Engine compressions and timing were checked and found in spec and no "work" was preformed on the engine. So, no entry other than the Airframe logbook's annual inspection results need be logged. True?
 
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Domenick said:
Engine compressions and timing were checked and found in spec...
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That should be logged. If you have an engine logbook, that would be the most appropriate place, but it wouldn’t be a violation to put it in the airframe logbook, along with the status of relevant ADs, etc.

The FAA isn’t real specific about how records are kept, just that there are records. Writing on napkins and tossing them into a box would be legal, but a bit challenging should you need to look something up or show maintenance records to a potential buyer.
 
I was taught recently that the annual inspection statement only goes in the airframe record.

However the FAA defines inspections as a Maintenance Activity so even if all the IA did was to “look at” the prop or engine during the annual inspection, that is Maintenance.

And the FAA requires all Maintenance performed to be recorded in the Aircraft Records.
(It makes sense, but is not specified, that an eg; prop inspection is entered in the Prop Logbook.)
As such, all logbooks should have an entry at annual time (but those entries would differ in form and substance) imo.

And, extra entries does not seem to have a downside.
For example,
New engine installed in airplane, an entry in each log - airframe and engine - is not going to hurt anything (except maybe someone’s feelings)
Some engine accessories; same thing.
I see guys argue about ‘it’s wrong to put the (aircraft manufacturers) exhaust in the engine log’, but what’s the harm of putting it in both?
Even the IA fb group occasionally has heated discussions about “which logbook” for certain things, if they can’t show proof of what’s right, how can an a&p or owner??
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
if they can’t show proof of what’s right, how can an a&p or owner??
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This is a wicked easy answer: wherever the owner says.

If an owner wants all the entries in a single book (or a digital version) then that's were they go. MX has no say on where the entry goes as its 10000% up to the owner.

Splitting the log books is a convenience, not a requirement. My best practice is an avery label printed on a laser printer or a quality inkjet that uses pigment (not dye) ink, with a hand signature. Few owners have had issues, some don't like them. I simply tell them that I could hand write it but my penmanship leaves much to be desired and if the part/item I installed becomes part of an AD, then they will want a clear, legible record of the SN/PN/date/hours not my chicken scratch.
 
Domenick said:
Sorry, I reread my question and it may not be clear, so I resubmit a clarified version:

Let us say, the aircraft enters the annual inspection airworthy and exits the annual inspection still airworthy. At no time was the anything "out of service." Engine compressions and timing were checked and found in spec and no "work" was preformed on the engine. So, no entry other than the Airframe logbook's annual inspection results need be logged. True?
Click to expand...

To the strictest point, the airframe was annual inspection and the engine/prop are 100 hour, so no as long as the inspections were signed off.

1784920664654.png

So to answer your question there still needs to be an entry in each log book, the annual inspection signoff in the airframe and 100 hour inspections in the engine and prop log books. I am assuming you have separate logs?

Remember the owner is responsible for the aircraft maintenance records.
 
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pfarber said:
This is a wicked easy answer: wherever the owner says.

If an owner wants all the entries in a single book (or a digital version) then that's were they go.
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how does the engine logbook or prop logbook follow that engine or prop when they are removed and installed on other aircraft?
 
Domenick said:
Let us say, the aircraft enters the annual inspection airworthy and exits the annual inspection still airworthy. At no time was the anything "out of service." So, no entry other than the annual inspection results need be logged. True?
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Was an engine oil change done as part of the annual? That needs to be logged.
pfarber said:
My best practice is an avery label printed on a laser printer or a quality inkjet that uses pigment (not dye) ink, with a hand signature. Few owners have had issues, some don't like them.
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My biggest complaint with logbook stickers is that they're usually so damn big, taking up a whole page instead of just a few lines.

Doc Holliday said:
So to answer your question there still needs to be an entry in each log book, the annual inspection signoff in the airframe and 100 hour inspections in the engine and prop log books. I am assuming you have separate logs?
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But a non revenue aircraft doesn't need a 100 hour inspection. That said, many IAs will record it as an annual in the aircraft log and a 100 hour in the engine log.

I've never owned a plane with a separate propeller log.
 
Wi
Domenick said:
So, no entry other than the Airframe logbook's annual inspection results need be logged. True?
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In reality these days you get *A* single sticker for the work done and that is put in the airframe logbook.

If there were inspections of the prop per an AD or some other inspection because a doohickey got to X hours, that will all be on that one sticker. If, as the owner, you want to make an entry in the prop logbook that says something like "See 07/2/2026 Annual Inspection sticker for AD-1234 800 hour prop hub inspection" go for it. Most A&Ps or IAs probably just go to the Airframe book first and then move out to the others as needed.
 
M20K said:
In reality these days you get *A* single sticker for the work done and that is put in the airframe logbook.
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Oh, I dunno - I had my annual last month and the IA gave me three stickers: airframe, engine, and prop. I suppose I could have put them all in one logbook, but there wasn’t any reason to.
 
Dana said:
Was an engine oil change done as part of the annual? That needs to be logged.
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While it may be done in conjunction with the annual inspection, it is not part of the annual inspection. If the oil was changed a few hours before going into an annual there is no requirement to do it again during the annual.
Dana said:
But a non revenue aircraft doesn't need a 100 hour inspection. That said, many IAs will record it as an annual in the aircraft log and a 100 hour in the engine log.
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The scope and detail of the annual inspection and the 100 hour inspection are one in the same.

Thus,

1784966374741.png
 

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Let'sgoflying! said:
Buyers really like the original logs, paper copies would result in side-eye & head-tilt.
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The regulations don't require what "Buyers really like". Making copies of pertinent logs to go with the component (such as a prop or engine) from a single logbook are acceptable as long as the A&P makes the appropriate entries to accompany them.
 
Somewhere out there there’s a letter saying that an annual inspection in the airframes logbook alone is fine, but putting similar sign off in each logbook is fine also.

This makes sense because in order for an aircraft to be airworthy, all the other attached pieces like engine, prop, and accessories must be airworthy as well. So a single airframe sign off will cover all though most owners want three annual stickers anyhow.

To a first order an annual is a 100 hour + AD investigation and compliance. Many ADs even say compliance is required after 12 months or at annual inspection.
 
Dana said:
My biggest complaint with logbook stickers is that they're usually so damn big, taking up a whole page instead of just a few lines.
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You can custom order label sizes and have them preprinted with logos and blocks etc. That's how I would want it if I were a po-fessional shop and not an as needed 'i know a guy'. It may not be as old-timey as a cursive entry that no one can read, but oh well, welcome to the future!

If there is significant space under an entry (after my sig/number) I usually draw a diagonal line to show the empty space is supposed to be empty.

Its really up to the owner, but tell them before work begins (part of the quote) that a label will be provided. If they balk at a label then charge the .25/hr to rewrite it. If you do work, you should have a record of it for yourself. Remember the liability is on you to prove X and Y if there is an issue. If your numbers get sloppy it could affect the application of an AD or future replacement part.

One reason I prefer parts (in 121 world) with an 8130 vs a robbed part is that the robbed part usually has a hand written tag... great, now I have to decipher some guys scratches instead of a nice clear computer printout. Don't be that guy.
 
At this point there is really no need for hand written entries save perhaps for an on the road oil change perhaps done by the owner.

Also AD searches and listings should be comprehensive and also driven by one of the reputable companies that provide the service.

Most new customers will require a full and proper AD search to include specific reference to the actions performed cited from the logbooks, not just “PCW.” Seen PCW repeatedly when it isn’t possible and also when the part or defect covered by the AD isn’t even present.

It’s 4-5 hours to get a proper AD review. Can also feed logs to AI and get a searchable handy pdf for reference and guidance as to where and when something was done.

Today with the backlogs at most shops, it’s pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of customers and what they think is appropriate, which figures little into the equation. More and more customers are getting fired as who wants the hassles of “last year my annual was xx and now you want yy?” Or “that didn’t need fixing.”

Many pilots are older and although everything has doubled in the past ten years, or even tripled when taking about parts and pieces for aircraft, have the 2010 pricing as correct. And then pay $230 and hour for car work.
 
Dana said:
My biggest complaint with logbook stickers is that they're usually so damn big, taking up a whole page instead of just a few lines.
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The ones I've seen usually work best if you turn them 90 degrees. You can usually get two across (or really above and below) if you do it this way.

Same with the smaller ones where you can get 3 or maybe even four if you pivot them.
 
Lama1125 said:
I see it a lot. A bunch of older mechanics only sign off the airframe and either sign the engine and prop off as a 100 hr or just say they worked on it. You have to have the Annual Inspection Approval for each entry or it is unairworthy.
Click to expand...

This very issue was part of my CFI oral 30 years ago and the FAA inspector advised it was a valid way to log an annual, but things change.
 
M20K said:
The ones I've seen usually work best if you turn them 90 degrees. You can usually get two across (or really above and below) if you do it this way.

Same with the smaller ones where you can get 3 or maybe even four if you pivot them.
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Oh, how fun. Sticker Tetris. When switching them to portrait mode, do you rotate left or do you rotate right?
 
For convenience, I have an airframe, prop, and an engine log book. I have a very large binder of STCs and whatnot from my panel update, but I do my IFR inspections and other instrument stickers in the airframe logbook.

Never thought about an instrument log book - I just might start that.
 
asicer said:
Oh, how fun. Sticker Tetris. When switching them to portrait mode, do you rotate left or do you rotate right?
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Well, if you really want to know!!... I rotate them counter clockwise. :D

Seriously though, if you do it that way, the rings for the booklet would be at the top of the page. But the reality of it is, who cares as long as you have the sticker.
 
Dana said:
My biggest complaint with logbook stickers is that they're usually so damn big, taking up a whole page instead of just a few lines.
Click to expand...

M20K said:
The ones I've seen usually work best if you turn them 90 degrees. You can usually get two across (or really above and below) if you do it this way.

Same with the smaller ones where you can get 3 or maybe even four if you pivot them.
Click to expand...

asicer said:
Oh, how fun. Sticker Tetris. When switching them to portrait mode, do you rotate left or do you rotate right?
Click to expand...

M20K said:
Well, if you really want to know!!... I rotate them counter clockwise. :D

Seriously though, if you do it that way, the rings for the booklet would be at the top of the page. But the reality of it is, who cares as long as you have the sticker.
Click to expand...

Folks, you do realize that you can scan the sticker, shrink it in ppt or word, then print it onto your own blank sticker paper, right?

Or just ask your A&P to scan it and email it to you. Re-size and print it yourself.
 
Half Fast said:
Folks, you do realize that you can scan the sticker, shrink it in ppt or word, then print it onto your own blank sticker paper, right?

Or just ask your A&P to scan it and email it to you. Re-size and print it yourself.
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Wouldn't be the A&P's original signature, if that matters.
 
Dana said:
Wouldn't be the A&P's original signature, if that matters.
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I doubt it does, and with a half decent scanner it's tough to detect anyway. I have several stickers in my plane and pilot logbooks that were emailed to me so I could print them and paste them in.
 
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