A&P and parts

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
I am a new owner so am unfamiliar with what is normal. My plane is in for an annual but at the same time I am considering adding a few upgrades.

One thing I am looking at is K2U LED wingtips, and Aveo LED nav/strobe/position lights.

From the manufacturers, the parts are $2K and $1K respectively. Is it typical for the end user to buy these parts and bring them to the A&P shop to install, or let the shop order them... And mark them up presumably?

What is typical? My shop is telling me that they frown on user supplied parts and have a mark up of 25-35% on most but 10% on big stuff like engines.
 
Generally my auto shop is able to buy parts for less than I am able to. It doesn't seem so with airplane parts
 
DesertNomad said:
Generally my auto shop is able to buy parts for less than I am able to. It doesn't seem so with airplane parts
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That's not what I asked.

Would your auto repair shop or dealership allow you to bring your own parts in and have them install them?

Why should an A&P with a business be any different?
 
Welcome to Aviation. :D

If you want to be a cheap SOB....you'll have to purchase the parts....and do the work yourself under the supervision of a mechanic.:nono::goofy:
 
RotorAndWing said:
That's not what I asked.

Would your auto repair shop or dealership allow you to bring your own parts in and have them install them?

Why should an A&P with a business be any different?
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It happens everyday all over the United States. Not only does it happen everyday, it is becoming more common everyday. there is certainly a shift in the way business is being done in repair facilities.
 
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mikeinbama said:
It happens everyday all over the United States. Not only does it happen everyday, it is becoming more common everyday. there is certainly a shift in the way business is being done in repair facilities.
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Would you be opposed to the A&P marking up his labor 25% to make up for his lost revenue?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Would you be opposed to the A&P marking up his labor 25% to make up for his lost revenue?
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You are making the assumption that I have a problem with the shop marking up the parts. On the contrary, it is acceptable and reasonable for them to do so. I was merely pointing out the people are bringing their own parts into the dealer and independent shops all the time, and it is getting more common all the time.
 
OP, hand the parts to the shop, if they give you a blast, tell them you will find some one else to install them.

They will install them.
 
I don't have a problem with a customer supplying their own parts. I'm not an auto shop that has a parts department and the associated overhead. Making a small markup isn't usually worth the hassle. But I do have rules. If the part you bought fails, don't come back to me looking for a discount or free labor to R&R or diagnose. You also get to ship it back to wherever you bought it from. If what you buy is doesn't fit or is missing parts, your plane gets pushed outside and it goes to the bottom of the priority list while you get it sorted out. It's like an owner assisted annual. If you know what your doing you can save money and time. If you don't, it will probably cost you more and take longer.
 
Tom-D said:
OP, hand the parts to the shop, if they give you a blast, tell them you will find some one else to install them.

They will install them.
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They may or may not. Or they may install them and make up the difference on the number of hours that they charge you.

If you want to search out and buy your own parts, and maybe help with the work, then you have to find a small shop that is happy for you to do that. If you go to a shop with half a dozen mechanics and a lot of airplanes around that are much more expensive than yours, then you can expect that they will not be happy with you supplying the parts and not be happy with your helping out.

Just pick the shop that fits you needs. One size does not fit all.
 
RotorAndWing said:
That's not what I asked.

Would your auto repair shop or dealership allow you to bring your own parts in and have them install them?

Why should an A&P with a business be any different?
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because he can't get them any cheaper than you can and if you buy the damn things then he is not out any money to get them and wait for you to pay the bill. Thats why. I do not do business with shops that will not work with owner supplied parts. Its not a ****ing car. Stop being a nit
 
Tarheelpilot said:
because he can't get them any cheaper than you can and if you buy the damn things then he is not out any money to get them and wait for you to pay the bill. Thats why. I do not do business with shops that will not work with owner supplied parts.
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Your choice.


Tarheelpilot said:
Its not a ****ing car. Stop being a nit
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Yep, the old "flying is my hobby and should be the mechanics too!" :rolleyes2:

Lots of people bemoan what an A&P charges for labor, cry foul when he sells a part with a markup on it. Then wonder why there are fewer and fewer A&P's willing to work on airplanes anymore. :rolleyes:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Would you be opposed to the A&P marking up his labor 25% to make up for his lost revenue?
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Not everyone is a jack hole who is trying to suck every last dime out of everyone. Lots of mechanics out there will be happy to sell you their labor at their hourly rate if you bring the parts.
 
Henning said:
Not everyone is a jack hole who is trying to suck every last dime out of everyone. Lots of mechanics out there will be happy to sell you their labor at their hourly rate if you bring the parts.
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Whenever you take the time to go earn an A&P rating then come back and tell us how you are willing to loose income to customers who are to cheap to purchase parts from you. :rolleyes2:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Whenever you take the time to go earn an A&P rating then come back and tell us how you are willing to loose income to customers who are to cheap to purchase parts from you. :rolleyes2:
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Yes yes, I know, you need every dime you can suck out of every customer in order to survive. What part of A&Pcovers retail merchandising? :dunno:
 
Henning said:
Yes yes, I know, you need every dime you can suck out of every customer in order to survive. What part of A&Pcovers retail merchandising? :dunno:
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It's called "running a business" and "profitability", and producing an "income".

I know, all strange topics to you. :rolleyes:
 
RotorAndWing said:
It's called "running a business" and "profitability", and producing an "income".

I know, all strange topics to you. :rolleyes:
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:lol: Yeah, and you managed to do so well at it you're stuck at some crap Asian carrier past US carrier mandatory retirement age.:rofl:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Whenever you take the time to go earn an A&P rating then come back and tell us how you are willing to loose income to customers who are to cheap to purchase parts from you. :rolleyes2:
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I have my A&P. I worked my butt of for it and if you want my services you pay.

Owner supplied parts don't take away my income. If i buy the part then I'll mark it up to cover my cost. If you buy it then i have nothing invested in the part hence no mark up.

I think shops that refuse to work with owners on supplied parts are butt holes and i refuse to do business with them. I used to work at one as a mechanic and now as an independent mechanic I can determine how I handle the billing. Shops that give you a hard time about parts are straight up ****ing you.
 
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DesertNomad said:
I am a new owner so am unfamiliar with what is normal. My plane is in for an annual but at the same time I am considering adding a few upgrades.

One thing I am looking at is K2U LED wingtips, and Aveo LED nav/strobe/position lights.

From the manufacturers, the parts are $2K and $1K respectively. Is it typical for the end user to buy these parts and bring them to the A&P shop to install, or let the shop order them... And mark them up presumably?

What is typical? My shop is telling me that they frown on user supplied parts and have a mark up of 25-35% on most but 10% on big stuff like engines.
Click to expand...

I buy all my own parts, unless the AP can beat the best price I can get.

It's just business, any shop that has a issue isn't a shop I would use or recommend.
 
If part XYZ is available online so that anyone can purchase, I don't see the justification for there being a markup if the owner wants to supply the part. Even if the A&P was running a parts business, it would only make sense to try and price match to capture the business. If the A&P has a required part on-hand like bulbs, filters, and other essential items, obviously a markup is expected because of the associated overhead. Charging a higher labor rate for an owner supplied part seems a bit odd to me. That's usually a sign they don't want the work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Henning said:
:lol: Yeah, and you managed to do so well at it you're stuck at some crap Asian carrier past US carrier mandatory retirement age.:rofl:
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Nice with the personal attacks again, Henning.


To the OP- it depends on the shop. As seen in this thread, some don't care, others will expect tHe parts to be complete and ready to install, with no warranties. I've heard of others that won't install owner supplied parts due to liability, or some "genius" that held them responsible when the owner supplied part failed.

Doesn't hurt to ask; your attitude may make the difference in the response.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Nice with the personal attacks again, Henning.


To the OP- it depends on the shop. As seen in this thread, some don't care, others will expect tHe parts to be complete and ready to install, with no warranties. I've heard of others that won't install owner supplied parts due to liability, or some "genius" that held them responsible when the owner supplied part failed.

Doesn't hurt to ask; your attitude may make the difference in the response.
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**** you ****, I didn't start it, and I'm not the one justifying gouging people.
 
Henning said:
:lol: Yeah, and you managed to do so well at it you're stuck at some crap Asian carrier past US carrier mandatory retirement age.:rofl:
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I'm 56, hardly "past US carrier mandatory retirement age". As for my employment, I have done exceedingly well for myself, thank you. And I'm far, far from being "stuck" anywhere. :rolleyes:

At least I'm not some itinerant sailor who can't seem to hold down a job for very long and has to make up lies about his life. :rofl:
 
Henning said:
**** you ****, I didn't start it, and I'm not the one justifying gouging people.
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No one has suggested "gouging" anyone. The topic is on whether or not a shop should (or want) to install owner installed parts or not.

There are valid arguments for both sides. I presented my side and others gave an opposing view. I don't disagree with the opposing views, it's a matter of choice and perspective.
 
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Henning said:
**** you ****, I didn't start it, and I'm not the one justifying gouging people.
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Doing it again? Nice, Henning. Someone disagrees with you and you start calling them names.

No one suggested gouging the customer, but there are different business models, even for mechanics.
 
get to know people at your airport. at every airport there are people like me that have A&P's and have other full time jobs. I have no problem helping someone out by doing a simple install like that for a few bucks. I also do not have any problem having the owner do it with me looking over their shoulder and signing it off.

If someone runs their business that way so be it, its their business.

the more you get involved with the maintenance of your aircraft the better you know your aircraft and in the end it will save you money.

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
get to know people at your airport. at every airport there are people like me that have A&P's and have other full time jobs. I have no problem helping someone out by doing a simple install like that for a few bucks. I also do not have any problem having the owner do it with me looking over their shoulder and signing it off.

If someone runs their business that way so be it, its their business.

the more you get involved with the maintenance of your aircraft the better you know your aircraft and in the end it will save you money.

bob
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+1....
 
This is something you work out with the shop BEFORE you start the job. Where are the parts sourced?

Planes have a somewhat unique provenance to used parts. Sort it out straight up with the shop A&P, and if you don't like the answer, live with it, or go elsewhere. My A&P sends me down to the supply place with his PO and I pick it up, haul it back, hand it to him, he looks at it, nods and I put it in while he watches.
 
I prefer to let the shop get the parts. Markup is fine. When it breaks, they will deal with the return and making it work again.

My time is better spent producing income or enjoying my time. I realize some may enjoy searching for the lowest priced part and that is ok. But for me the potential savings is not worth my time. YMMV

Jim
 
Many times I can buy parts cheaper than the owner.

because;
I have a discount at most on line suppliers.
I can save shipping by combining orders.
I can stock parts, and allow the owners to replace what they use.
I don't mark up.
 
I don't mind a bit of mark up and prefer to support the local shop but I don't like being raped either. I called a local shop and asked the price on a particular battery. Their price was almost double what you could buy it for elsewhere and it would be a week.
In our area there are a few A&P's,I/A's that work independently and don't mind people buying there own parts. I enjoy the owner assisted annuals. The a&p,i/a gives me a list of what I need and I go from there.
 
If a shop tells me I have to buy the part from them at a markup, I ask them what increased value they're going to provide me to justify that markup.

If they can't provide value and tell me the markup is to cover their cost of dealing with ordering the part and receiving it then I tell them no problem I'll just order it and handle that myself...and then explain that I'm not going to pay more if I'm not getting more value.

I've never seen a shop that doesn't cave at that point and just let me order it.
 
Perhaps you have more shops available to you in the area. We have one large shop on the field - maybe 20 or so A&Ps. Your suggestion is harder to do with a monopoly.
 
DesertNomad said:
Perhaps you have more shops available to you in the area. We have one large shop on the field - maybe 20 or so A&Ps. Your suggestion is harder to do with a monopoly.
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Not really, one on the field basically, but there are other fields and there are independent guys.
 
When you are an A&P that lives in a sales tax state who the hell wants to deal parts and have the state looking at every part you sell to be certain they get their share?
If I must use my oil and filter on your aircraft, I better see the UPS truck very soon with the your replacement for my shelf. Or the next time you want an oil change, you best call some one else.
 
Rotor/Henning Pizzing contest..
One must remember that Old Rotor, says he once ran a helo operation, well maybe we now why he doesn't any more.
 
Tom-D said:
Rotor/Henning Pizzing contest..
One must remember that Old Rotor, says he once ran a helo operation, well maybe we now why he doesn't any more.
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And old Henning is a proven liar, and also known to make up "facts".
 
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