A&P and parts

My mechanic prefers us to bring him the parts. He doesn't make much money on parts and he prefers we eat the cash flow.
 
DesertNomad said:
You guys are lucky I guess. My local shop quoted $1720 for lights that I can buy direct from the manufacturer (Aveo) for $1100. They won't allow me to bring them the parts myself. I might have to find another shop but it'd be 100 miles away.
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$620 bucks sure would cover the fuel to fly 100mi.

Even if it was a break even, I'd take my business to the other shop.
 
Do your existing lights work? It seems like a lot of trouble to go through to fix something that isn't broken. Take some time and find a local A&P that'll "supervise" you and let you do the install. It's about the easiest thing you can do on a plane. Second easiest. The easiest thing is not spending money on lights you don't need. Buy avgas instead.
 
James331 said:
As for your Chevy comment, I used to get my oil changed at the dealer and I would bring in my own fluids and filter, they didn't have a problem with it.
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:lol: Seriously? I've never heard of that. Why didn't you just change it yourself then? I get my oil changes done at the dealer (cars and planes) because I've got better things to do with my time but buying the oil and filter directly to save (literally) a few dollars seems really petty. If you change it yourself, okay, I get that.
 
narchee said:
:lol: Seriously? I've never heard of that. Why didn't you just change it yourself then? I get my oil changes done at the dealer (cars and planes) because I've got better things to do with my time but buying the oil and filter directly to save (literally) a few dollars seems really petty. If you change it yourself, okay, I get that.
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Yeah, I'd just swing by and pick up the oil and filter on my way to the dealer, I didn't have a jack that would work well on a very low fiberglass car and I really didn't change the oil that often with how few miles I put on the thing, add to that the pure stupid level of markup the dealer had on their mobile 1 oil change, I said half jokingly "well how much if I bring my own fluids and filter" ended up being like 30 bucks, plus they put it up on a lift and take a look underneath, something I couldn't easily do. So yeah, it worked out for me in my situation at the time.
 
Anticept said:
Out at Parr airfield (42i) near newark, Bob Norman basically is a Mooney freak. I've never been to him personally, but I hear a lot from very reliable sources (as in, one of his employees was my classmate!). He knows what he is doing, but he is very lenient on maintenance. I say this as both a blessing and a curse: I've seen planes come from there that are in beautiful shape as he can turn one hell of a wrench, but I've also seen ones that look like if they landed too hard they would explode. He's a believer in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" strategy, but sometimes I think he lets it go a little too far before recommending replacements. Just be sure to talk it over with him.

What mooney model do you have?
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I'm flying an M20C. Right now the plan is either an owner-assist annual with Bob or the Mooney center in Akron. We'll see in a year.
 
Shops quote different reasons for not installing customer parts. I bought tires for my Corvette, dropshipped to the shop, and the owner installed them himself. His feeling was the insurance the shop carried would not cover one of the employees doing it if they screwed up.
My Navion shop said just get the part and he'd put it in.
Different strokes.
I certainly would not walk into a restaurant with a cup of coffee or soda from next door but I know places who don't complain if you do.
If I can save a few bucks and the shop is okay with it, why not? If you don't ask, you'll never know.
 
steingar said:
I'm flying an M20C. Right now the plan is either an owner-assist annual with Bob or the Mooney center in Akron. We'll see in a year.
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I haven't been there in awhile but IIRC Mooneyspace has a MSC listing. I wonder if they keep it updated with reviews (?). My (former) home drome is/was a MSC.
 
I hope you guys realize, the independent A&P would rather you buy the parts, and deal with who ever you bought them from for warrantee service.
 
GlennAB1 said:
No matter where the parts come from, the A&P is responsibe for ensuring the part is effective, serviceable and operates as required.
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You bought it, had it shipped to me, It was inspected, and installed properly. It has warranty problems later, you deal with.
 
Tom-D said:
You bought it, had it shipped to me, It was inspected, and installed properly. It has warranty problems later, you deal with.
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As much as I agree, you know how much everybody loves to hold the last person to touch something accountable for anything that happens to it, relevant or not.
 
mkosmo said:
As much as I agree, you know how much everybody loves to hold the last person to touch something accountable for anything that happens to it, relevant or not.
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Very very seldom is any mechanic held responsible for material failure of new parts.

Except maybe avionic equipment. Then usually its Screwed on the install, and never hurts anyone.
 
Tom-D said:
Very very seldom is any mechanic held responsible for material failure of new parts.

Except maybe avionic equipment. Then usually its Screwed on the install, and never hurts anyone.
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Are you saying you never have upset owners try to blame you for things you're not responsible for? I figured aviation would be as bad as (or worse than) the rest of the world lol
 
mkosmo said:
Are you saying you never have upset owners try to blame you for things you're not responsible for? I figured aviation would be as bad as (or worse than) the rest of the world lol
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No.. I choose my customers better than that.
Plus I'd rather have the customer do the work, while I supervise. That contaminates the liability loop.

Don't get me wrong, I've had customers that did not like what I did, but they didn't get killed on the way home either.
 
GlennAB1 said:
No matter where the parts come from, the A&P is responsibe for ensuring the part is effective, serviceable and operates as required.
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And why would anyone assume other wise?

Many new parts never work directly out of the box.

When you buy the part, and ship it to me, I don't have the purchase slips for returning it? I can't have the return charges back to my card, even if tried. You deal with it.
 
Tom-D said:
And why would anyone assume other wise?

Many new parts never work directly out of the box.

When you buy the part, and ship it to me, I don't have the purchase slips for returning it? I can't have the return charges back to my card, even if tried. You deal with it.
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I remember reading a story some time ago (few years) where an A&P didn't do his "due diligence" on a part he installed, that the owner gave him to install on his aircraft. He stated something like; the owner/operator has responsibility for the airworthiness of his aircraft and he provided the part...
 
GlennAB1 said:
I remember reading a story some time ago (few years) where an A&P didn't do his "due diligence" on a part he installed, that the owner gave him to install on his aircraft. He stated something like; the owner/operator has responsibility for the airworthiness of his aircraft and he provided the part...
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And, once again..... My usual comment...:redface:

I REALLY love experimentals and holding the repairmens certificate for my toy..:):)
 
N801BH said:
And, once again..... My usual comment...:redface:

I REALLY love experimentals and holding the repairmens certificate for my toy..:):)
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Nothing wrong with having it all on you. Just remember, when you are flying, fly the plane. Too many have died, troubleshooting, when they should have been flying. And, the vast majority of fatal aircraft accidents are pilot error. Something like; almost 50%, to almost 5% for maintenance errors.
 
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Tom-D said:
And why would anyone assume other wise?

Many new parts never work directly out of the box.

When you buy the part, and ship it to me, I don't have the purchase slips for returning it? I can't have the return charges back to my card, even if tried. You deal with it.
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Explain? Why would a new part come broken? I can understand that the mating edge of the new and worn parts have too much tolerance, but that wouldn't be the fault of the new part, it would be a need to replace more parts that have worn beyond serviceability.
 
Tom-D said:
Many new parts never work directly out of the box.
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90% ish do.

It is really troubling when a brand new $XX,000 PC card for ________ was counter-to-counter shipped ($$$) and the darn thing was Dead On Arrival (DOA).


Sheet metal parts? Many have pilot holes, which don't fit.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Explain? Why would a new part come broken? I can understand that the mating edge of the new and worn parts have too much tolerance, but that wouldn't be the fault of the new part, it would be a need to replace more parts that have worn beyond serviceability.
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owner has a 12 volt system, they ordered a new alternator, got a 24 volt unit.
How would I deal with that?
 
Tom-D said:
owner has a 12 volt system, they ordered a new alternator, got a 24 volt unit.
How would I deal with that?
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That's an ordering problem, not a "part no worky worky" problem.
 
Tom-D said:
owner has a 12 volt system, they ordered a new alternator, got a 24 volt unit.
How would I deal with that?
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Jaybird180 said:
That's an ordering problem, not a "part no worky worky" problem.
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This may make a case for the mechanic ordering the parts, to ensure the correct item was ordered.

Did the customer order the correct alternator, or was the wrong one shipped?
 
Cap'n Jack said:
This may make a case for the mechanic ordering the parts, to ensure the correct item was ordered.

Did the customer order the correct alternator, or was the wrong one shipped?
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Didn't matter to me, you want me to order the parts? give me your C/C numbers
 
Good luck with that. Not quite sure about the output of a 24v alt with 12v battery connected to field. have to pose the question to my brother, with the Master's degree in electrical engineering from MIT... he's working on a Doctorate currently. After thinking about it some more, alternator output is based upon field, so, a 24v alternator put into a 12v system may work fine (as a 12v alternator.) But, a 12v alternator wouldn't work (for long) in a 24v system. And, no, two 24s in parallel, don't give 12.
 
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My brother said "If you put 24v on a 12v system you're likely to do a lot of damage...I'm not sure what parallel the output with the field means...two 24s in parallel give 24v but twice as much amperage...you also need to be very careful when you just parallel sources ... one could be 23.5 and the other could be 24.5 and then the 24.5 source will pump current into the 23.5 source. There are design considerations for things like that...I don't know a lot of power electronics."

"What would probably happen is they would disapate 1200W on the wire between the alternator and the battery."

His degree is actually Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, having been a career USAF pilot, he's never worked in the electrical engineering field, but he buildes his own computers.
 
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Glenn....my comments and the ones that follow are pure sarcasm.:yes::D

there is no way to use a 24V alternator in a 12v system....it would fry the elec system.

Thank your brother for his analysis....:)
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
Glenn....my comments and the ones that follow are pure sarcasm.:yes::D

there is no way to use a 24V alternator in a 12v system....it would fry the elec system.
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You can use half of it, just hook up 1 of the 2 wires.
 
I knew yours was sarcasm.

I don't think a 24v alternator would fry a 12v system.

Voltage from 12v battery applied to the field could only produce 12v (unless the winding were doubled). 0v applied to the field produces 0v from an alternator.
 
N801BH said:
Just another good reason to go the experimental route....;)
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I'm not even a year into ownership, and I agree with this... I don't have a problem with my local mechanic. He's very good. He's just too damn busy, especially for simple stuff I should be able to do myself.
 
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