How do you forget to lower the gear?

RyanB

RyanB

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How?

We got onto a V tail Bonanza discussion over in the chat room and it reminded me of the V35A that the two owners of my FBO used to have. They ended up selling it to a guy on field and it appears that he (or someone else) had a gear up landing in it down in Muscle Shoals, AL back in 2017. I saw that it was listed on a salvage auction website and evidently someone out of OK bought it.

So it brings up the question, how in H. E. double hockey sticks does someone gear up an airplane? How do you ignore the gear warning horn? Just seems like a total bone-headed move to me.
 
Ryanb said:
How?

We got onto a V tail Bonanza discussion over in the chat room and it reminded me of the V35A that the two owners of my FBO used to have. They ended up selling it to a guy on field and it appears that he (or someone else) had a gear up landing in it down in Muscle Shoals, AL back in 2017. I saw that it was listed on a salvage auction website and evidently someone out of OK bought it.

So it brings up the question, how in H. E. double hockey sticks does someone gear up an airplane? How do you ignore the gear warning horn? Just seems like a total bone-headed move to me.
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I don’t know dude. Tell us how it happens after you do it yourself.
 
I do not have a complex endorsement....But at work on the sims I have never ever thought twice about dropping the gear. I do it out of habit. But the few times I've been in a complex I'm glad the other thought to because it never crossed my mind. I'm thinking forgetting has to do with task saturation maybe.

I wonder if most gear up happen while out of the norm stuff is going down or during a particularly focused approach?

I've been treating my Cherokee like a complex and started verbalizing gear down and locked. Hopefully when I move up to a complex I'll have it engrained in my membrane. But they are accidents and we all do bone headed moves at time.

I figure if I hear the prop hitting the concrete I'll power up and come back around. Then I have the coveted q-tip prop! Haha
 
You cant hear the gear warning horn with noise cancelling headsets is how, FAA has a bulletin about that.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t know dude. Tell us how it happens after you do it yourself.
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Not like I’m trying to point fingers, none of us are immune from such things, I’m just legitimately asking how this type of event happens.
 
At the flight school I went to in FL a student with a CFI kissed the runway with the props at Flagler in a Seminole- went full power-Climbed out and headed back to DAB. - had to declare an emergency on way back due to rough running engine. Landed safely. But both got into a lot of trouble. Was in the 90’s. I have a pic somewhere in a box of a billion pics with the props bent back. Amazing it could fly like it was at least for a little while.
 
strangebird said:
You cant hear the gear warning horn with noise cancelling headsets is how, FAA has a bulletin about that.
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Your crazy!
The noise cancelling headsets let you hear a warning horn better..... They take out the engine noise frequencies.
 
Normally pilots have a routine on when and where they lower the gear. Add distractions, break the routine and I can usually have a gear horn screaming at the pilot during a flight check.

Take a plane with an M20J with a rather low volume horn it is quite easy.
 
strangebird said:
You cant hear the gear warning horn with noise cancelling headsets is how, FAA has a bulletin about that.
Click to expand...

pigpenracing said:
Your crazy!
The noise cancelling headsets let you hear a warning horn better..... They take out the engine noise frequencies.
Click to expand...

Back when our club had an Arrow I never had trouble hearing the horn with my noise cancelling headset. What I kept hearing in my head was my original CFI saying, "Mid field, drop the gear. Turn base, three in the green. Turn final, three in the green. Short final, three in the green!". Never had a problem remembering to lower the gear.
 
Midfield, gear down. abeam, flaps 1, check gear. flaps 2 on base check gear. final, flaps 3 check gear. short final, check gear. over numbers, check gear. final power reduction, check gear.

I'm paranoid.
 
Distraction, baby.

Several years ago, while my plane was down waiting for an engine, I borrowed a Cherokee for a trip. When we flew home, traffic was nuts, and I mean crazy; Regional was cramming the planes down Addison Tower’s throat faster than they could take them (not at ALL common, be assured). I got sent around twice before I got to land.

Two hours or so later, a friend, similarly afflicted, had a Gear-up in his exquisite plane. A thorough, careful, diligent pilot, taken out of his zone.

It happens. Maybe if I’d been in the Bo when I arrived, I’d have done it.
 
Reading lots of thoughts here about how people have different techniques to avoid the issue. Not too much on answering your question as to why it happens.
You can read through tons of NTSB reports to get some ideas.
There have been many articles written as well, on this never-ending & expensive problem.
I have two good friends, and know several others, who are long-time experienced pilots who have done this - so remember; it can certainly happen to any one of us despite our protestations to the contrary and all the preventive measures we think will prevent it!
 
I’ve forgotten things without using checklists while distracted. Even things that produce visual warnings I didn’t catch. I’ve never not reacted to something that produces an annoying audible like a gear up alarm. So no, I don’t see how it can happen...even with ANR headsets.

Maybe during an engine out or high distractions, but normal ops, the alarm SHOULD alert the average pilot to investigate the noise.
 
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simtech said:
I do not have a complex endorsement....But at work on the sims I have never ever thought twice about dropping the gear. I do it out of habit. But the few times I've been in a complex I'm glad the other thought to because it never crossed my mind. I'm thinking forgetting has to do with task saturation maybe.

I wonder if most gear up happen while out of the norm stuff is going down or during a particularly focused approach?

I've been treating my Cherokee like a complex and started verbalizing gear down and locked. Hopefully when I move up to a complex I'll have it engrained in my membrane. But they are accidents and we all do bone headed moves at time.

I figure if I hear the prop hitting the concrete I'll power up and come back around. Then I have the coveted q-tip prop! Haha
Click to expand...

There’s also some possibility you’ll be conditioned to say gear down and locked and never touch the gear handle. I recommend flying what you have. Not pretending to fly what you want.
 
strangebird said:
You cant hear the gear warning horn with noise cancelling headsets is how, FAA has a bulletin about that.
Click to expand...

Not with Bose A20s, I can hear the gear horn just fine.
Of course the gear horn can be broken and the pilot may never know. Or they may be have hearing problems.

Fatigue + abnormal circumstances = mistake



Tom
 
simtech said:
I do not have a complex endorsement....But at work on the sims I have never ever thought twice about dropping the gear. I do it out of habit. But the few times I've been in a complex I'm glad the other thought to because it never crossed my mind. I'm thinking forgetting has to do with task saturation maybe.

I wonder if most gear up happen while out of the norm stuff is going down or during a particularly focused approach?

I've been treating my Cherokee like a complex and started verbalizing gear down and locked. Hopefully when I move up to a complex I'll have it engrained in my membrane. But they are accidents and we all do bone headed moves at time.

I figure if I hear the prop hitting the concrete I'll power up and come back around. Then I have the coveted q-tip prop! Haha
Click to expand...

The gear can’t hear. Verbalizing it down don’t make it go down. I keep gear in my routine when flying fixed gear like you though. I stick my hand out and simulate putting it down. Then I point to where the gear lights would be. Downwind, base and final. Every time. Religiously. Could that lead me to ‘simulating’ in a retract someday? I dunno, but I don’t think so. So far I haven’t. @Tarheelpilot may have a point above in post #24.
 
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Ryanb said:
So it brings up the question, how in H. E. double hockey sticks does someone gear up an airplane? How do you ignore the gear warning horn? Just seems like a total bone-headed move to me.
Click to expand...

Lots of reasons, but I think ultimately it comes down to poor initial training. I'm often amazed how many people have never heard of GUMPS, or have forgotten about learning it, or do it once on downwind and they're done. I view it like any life saving safety equipment. Check it twice, then have your buddy check it. If you don't have a buddy, check it 3 times, then check it again.

I'm so paranoid I do gumps two or three times on downwind, a couple more times on base and just because I'm paranoid, a couple more times on final. I have never landed gear up or skis down (unintentionally), but I know a lot of pilots who have.
 
I almost did it once. Actually selected gear down. Just didn't notice until short final that the gear didn't go down. Did notice it seemed harder to get slowed down.
 
It never happens, because...
All of us pilots are the exact same skill level, beyond great.
None of us are ever rushed in the pattern.
Nothing ever happens out of the ordinary in the pattern, every single one is identical to the last, just like all airports.
There are never go-arounds, or other planes doing something odd in the pattern.
Humans don't fly planes.
 
Ryanb said:
how in H. E. double hockey sticks does someone gear up an airplane? How do you ignore the gear warning horn? Just seems like a total bone-headed move to me.
Click to expand...

Like this:-

I think it's called task saturation. Hearing apparently shuts off first, I think I heard somewhere.

Gear down is not always good:-

QYGD3XKBWZDNRNNHCK3YL3VGAQ.jpg


Often a worse outcome that gear up in error.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avi...d-landed-with-wheels-extended-a-known-hazard/
 
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When I was 17 years old, back in 1977, I worked at a hangar at Plymouth Airport (PYM)... I arrived early, about 7 AM. I opened the hangar door, it was hot out... time to sweep the hangar floor. In those days I effectively traded labor for flight instruction... that's another story...

I saw a Bonanza on final with his gear up... and I could tell the gear wasn't going down... I ran back into the hangar to grab the fire extinguisher... when I emerged from the hangar I saw sparks then a Bo sitting in the middle of the runway. I ran up to him with my fire extinguisher, walked onto the wing and he was just sitting there.
I thought he was passed out, he wasn't, his eyes were open and he was just staring at the panel. I opened the door and told him to get out. We both sat on the grass about 100 feet from the airplane waiting for anyone to arrive... he was in shock. I noted that the gear handle was "up".

I too asked the question of the A&P's on the field how that could happen... and all of them told me the same answer... "human nature". Best answer, we humans aren't perfect although most of us strive to be. Until Tesla comes out with the self driving airplane, we pilots need to be on our best game during the boring checklist(s) phase. Those old (in their 50's !! that's old as dirt ...; ) A&P's were the wisest airplane guys I have ever known.
 
How do people forget to stop at redlights and stop signs? How do people forget to use the blower on their boats and cause an explosion from gas fumes? How do people have accidental discharges of firearms? I could do this all day.

People are people, they aren't perfect. Being careful and thorough might keep you safe most of your life, then one day...
 
I fly a Mooney with a Johnson bar for the gear. A pretty big thing, hard to forget. That said, just as many J-bar Mooneys have geared up as ones with electric gear. Go figure. Just the other day someone was doing touch & goes and got out of sequence, geared up a pretty Mooney. Those that have and those that will.

Me, I tend to drop the gear before I ever hit the traffic pattern. My thought is most of the distractions and craziness happens in the pattern, not before. If I'm already configured to land, that much less chance I'll forget. Of course, I have to suck up the gear in a go-around, airplane climbs like a dog with the gear out. So it could happen to me too.
 
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