How do you forget to lower the gear?

SToL said:
I like crainialrectal impaction
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Always called it cranial rectal inversion. That led to Plexi Op. That’s where you have a piece of plexiglass surgically implanted in your abdomen so you can see where you are going when you have your head up your...........
 
SToL said:
You can brag all you want, there's only one God and you're not him. Go figure.
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you're the one that implied i was a **** pilot because I don't rely on mnemonics. I was simply offering a counterpoint by someone who recently flew with me. their opinion, not mine. you can go through my 1000s of posts on here and you will be extremely hard pressed to find where I (non sarcastically) rate myself as anything other than average.

Say hi to Dorothy the tinman toto and the lion for me though.
 
EdFred said:
you're the one that implied i was a **** pilot because I don't rely on mnemonics. I was simply offering a counterpoint by someone who recently flew with me. their opinion, not mine. you can go through my 1000s of posts on here and you will be extremely hard pressed to find where I (non sarcastically) rate myself as anything other than average.

Say hi to Dorothy the tinman toto and the lion for me though.
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Negative Ghost rider, the pattern is full and you've got it all wrong.

I implied that when you have to ask the controller to repeat the readback, you can appear unprofessional.

I implied that you have **** for brains because you come off about how abbreviations are so horrible, worthless and difficult to learn and remember. Seriously.

I said nothing about you being a **** pilot, but then I haven't see you fly yet either.

Another point... you said "Well, at least not one with an onset of Alzheimer's and various complexes."

Well you must be off your meds grandpa, because first your said; "us lowly pay for our own fuel pilots" and then you turn around and say: "Yep, and on my last flight I was with a 121 captain in the right seat who said I'd make a great airline captain and my radio work was top notch (or the equivalent I don't remember the exact words)".

Well, which is it?
 
We have landing gear, gear speed, gear lights gear switches, but is the G in GUMPS, gear. Nope. Lets use undercarriage. yeah, so rather than just remember to put the gear down,we have to remember a mnemonic, and then remember that the G in said mnemonic is not gear, but Gas....which we never call it by that either, we call it fuel. Is the S to remember Seat belts or Switches, oh **** which switches, or is it for Something else?

Now lets talk about FLAPS.

F is for Fuses right....wait, I haven't seen fuses in the last 10 planes or more that I've flown. Must not be fuses, gotta be fuel. But wait when using mnemonics we call it something else, starts with a U...unleaded?? No, we use leaded fuel. Maybe the F should stand for ****ing stupid.

Then we got people who don't think GUMPS covers enough, so now we have CGUMPPS. The C stands for what,....carb heat?? Where's the carb heat in a fuel injected? C can't be carb heat, gotta be something else. Compass, I'll check the compass. Wait, no, thats not right, because in TOMATOFLAMES the M is magnetic indicator not a compass. Mother****er what the hell was the C for? Where's the landing lights on your GUMPS check?

And GUMPS isn't even done in order if you're doing what you should on descent/approach.

Remember in 3rd grade when we were told Mary's Vagina Emits Musty, ****, what was the J again? Great, I gotta remember some stupid sentence instead of just remembering the ******* names of the planets.

See why they are stupid when all you have to do in most planes is put your hand in near the middle of the panel, run it from top to bottom and then left to right and just check everything your hand passes over? In 99% of aircraft it's going to pass over everything you need, and no need to remember that G isn't Gear C isn't carb heat, what the hell the S was for or the M if you're FADEC.

If I had a mnemonic for my landing procedure it would be something like FFALTMGMFSCBGFGFPGF. Now who the F is going to remember that to cover everything on a landing mnemonic?

As for the second part...

So in your world a 121 captain isn't allowed to ride in non revenue part 91 aircraft as a passenger? Got it.
 
SToL said:
I was going to say, Good, don't forget it. But since a simple acronym is so difficult for you to remember, I'm sure this is a lost cause as well.
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No clue what I was supposed to not forget.

But I find it telling you completly ignored the issues I brought up with mnemonics and the problems with them.
 
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You form habits that you never brake.
 
EdFred said:
No clue what I was supposed to not forget.

But I find it telling you completly ignored the issues I brought up with mnemonics and the problems with them.
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I ignored it because I found it utterly ridiculous and there's nothing I can say about it that I or others haven't' already said over and over in previous post.

But just for you, one more time...

IF IT'S TOO HARD FOR YOU TO FIGURE OUT, THEN DON'T USE IT. It's that simple. No need to carry on about it.

Other's find it useful.
 
SToL said:
This is for you guys who claim you hate acronyms and never use them. Recognize any?

GUMPS, NDB, VOR, CRAFT, ETA, ETE, SOS, PAN(pan pan), POTUS, SCUBA, KISS, FUBAR, ASAP, BASE (jumping), GIF, TAZER, AFK, LOL, CIA, FBI, ATF, CPS, UPS, USPS, NPS, ETC, NASA, DMV, OSHA, NAFTA, SWAT, POW, MIA, AWOL, DOA, DOB, DIY, AIDS, ADHD, ADD, HIV, FAQ, AKA, DBA, EST, CST, MST, PST, DST, MBA, MD, HR, NASDAQ, AA, AAA, AARP, ESPN, NBC, CBS, HBO, TBS, CMT, BBC, FOX, MTV, NatGeo, NFL, NHL, NBA, PGA,SPCA, ATM, RIP, TGIF, SMYT, S&M, BSD, RTFM, STFU, ID, PC, SOL, WD40, YAHOO, IKEA, LASER, GEICO, USAA, NFCU, BofA, PenFed, AFLAC, SPAM, A&W, BMW, TCBY, 3M, CDROM, AHOLE
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Acronyms?? Seems like most are abbreviations....
 
I don’t do acronyms, I do flow, then cross check it on final with the brief schidt that will kill you list permanent printed on the Mooney lower center panel.
 
I have to say I agree with @EdFred here.

The Air Force loves mnemonics. As a UPT instructor, the studs would get their brains filled with them. NMAILMAN, WHOLDS, NOTWISS, the list goes on... a mnemonic for what's hydraulically operated, another for what's DC powered, yet another to do on radar downwind before an instrument approach. It was a never ending litany of words being spewed out. For sure, they have their place. The ones used for rote memory stuff are fine. I'll never forget what is on the left hydraulic system in the KC-135. FLIP (Fwd AR Pumps, Landing Gear, Inboard Spoilers, Pilot's Brakes). The right system had some stupid long acronym (COL CAN BARF). It was ridiculous. When someone would quiz me on what was on the right system, my answer was "Everything that's not on the left."

The memory aids that were procedural in nature were the ones I had a problem with, because it taught rote memory for things that may take some thinking. Much like GUMP. The whole NMAILMAN/WHOLDS were what studs were taught to use to get ready for an approach. They would run through these items rotely, not thinking why they were doing it. If I could get them to think about what was coming up next and do what they needed to do to be ready, there was no reason to go through a 14 item mnemonic to only do the 3 items they needed to accomplish.

I thought the best example of how stupid these things could be was one of our studs answering a question during the morning briefing. In the AF, UPT students would gather every morning for a formal brief that went over the days weather, admin stuff, scheduling, etc. One of the dreaded parts of the morning brief was the daily emergency procedure review and knowledge quizzing. Here, one student got to stand up in front of his/her peers and instructors and talk their way through an emergency. They also had to answer general knowledge questions to the satisfaction of the instructors. Well, we were at the end of the training cycle, in the formation phase, so things tended to loosen up a bit as graduation grew nearer. So this one student was up in from of the class, and was asked to recite the reasons for calling "Knock-it-off" during a formation flight. There was some long mnemonic that I couldn't tell you, but it included stuff like "radio failure," "unidentified aircraft entered the MOA," "dangerous situation developing," things like that. Well, this stud says that he uses the acronym "the eight A's." Now, we're all scratching our heads, but sure... let's hear them. He proceeds to rattle off the list of KIO reasons. "A radio failure," "An unidentified aircraft enters the area," "A dangerous situation is developing," and so on, every item starting with the letter "A"... we all got a good laugh, and a lesson on how stupid most of these acronyms are.
 
EdFred said:
We have landing gear, gear speed, gear lights gear switches, but is the G in GUMPS, gear. Nope. Lets use undercarriage. yeah, so rather than just remember to put the gear down,we have to remember a mnemonic, and then remember that the G in said mnemonic is not gear, but Gas....which we never call it by that either, we call it fuel. Is the S to remember Seat belts or Switches, oh **** which switches, or is it for Something else?

Now lets talk about FLAPS.

F is for Fuses right....wait, I haven't seen fuses in the last 10 planes or more that I've flown. Must not be fuses, gotta be fuel. But wait when using mnemonics we call it something else, starts with a U...unleaded?? No, we use leaded fuel. Maybe the F should stand for ****ing stupid.

Then we got people who don't think GUMPS covers enough, so now we have CGUMPPS. The C stands for what,....carb heat?? Where's the carb heat in a fuel injected? C can't be carb heat, gotta be something else. Compass, I'll check the compass. Wait, no, thats not right, because in TOMATOFLAMES the M is magnetic indicator not a compass. Mother****er what the hell was the C for? Where's the landing lights on your GUMPS check?

And GUMPS isn't even done in order if you're doing what you should on descent/approach.

Remember in 3rd grade when we were told Mary's Vagina Emits Musty, ****, what was the J again? Great, I gotta remember some stupid sentence instead of just remembering the ******* names of the planets.

See why they are stupid when all you have to do in most planes is put your hand in near the middle of the panel, run it from top to bottom and then left to right and just check everything your hand passes over? In 99% of aircraft it's going to pass over everything you need, and no need to remember that G isn't Gear C isn't carb heat, what the hell the S was for or the M if you're FADEC.

If I had a mnemonic for my landing procedure it would be something like FFALTMGMFSCBGFGFPGF. Now who the F is going to remember that to cover everything on a landing mnemonic?

As for the second part...

So in your world a 121 captain isn't allowed to ride in non revenue part 91 aircraft as a passenger? Got it.
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I firmly agree completely with half of what you’re saying. Or maybe I halfway agree with all of what you’re saying.
 
Kritchlow said:
Acronyms?? Seems like most are abbreviations....
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And as I pointed out, some aren't either...PAN, Taser (I assume he meant that rather than Tazer), Ikea, Yahoo are just nouns that aren't abbreviations or initializations of anything.
 
flyingron said:
And as I pointed out, some aren't either...PAN, Taser (I assume he meant that rather than Tazer), Ikea, Yahoo are just nouns that aren't abbreviations or initializations of anything.
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Taser originally stood for Thomas A. Swift’s Electric Rifle. If it was ever spelled in all caps, though, it was long before Tasers hit the market in the 80s.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I have to say I agree with @EdFred here.

The Air Force loves mnemonics. As a UPT instructor, the studs would get their brains filled with them. NMAILMAN, WHOLDS, NOTWISS, the list goes on... a mnemonic for what's hydraulically operated, another for what's DC powered, yet another to do on radar downwind before an instrument approach. It was a never ending litany of words being spewed out. For sure, they have their place. The ones used for rote memory stuff are fine. I'll never forget what is on the left hydraulic system in the KC-135. FLIP (Fwd AR Pumps, Landing Gear, Inboard Spoilers, Pilot's Brakes). The right system had some stupid long acronym (COL CAN BARF). It was ridiculous. When someone would quiz me on what was on the right system, my answer was "Everything that's not on the left."

The memory aids that were procedural in nature were the ones I had a problem with, because it taught rote memory for things that may take some thinking. Much like GUMP. The whole NMAILMAN/WHOLDS were what studs were taught to use to get ready for an approach. They would run through these items rotely, not thinking why they were doing it. If I could get them to think about what was coming up next and do what they needed to do to be ready, there was no reason to go through a 14 item mnemonic to only do the 3 items they needed to accomplish.

I thought the best example of how stupid these things could be was one of our studs answering a question during the morning briefing. In the AF, UPT students would gather every morning for a formal brief that went over the days weather, admin stuff, scheduling, etc. One of the dreaded parts of the morning brief was the daily emergency procedure review and knowledge quizzing. Here, one student got to stand up in front of his/her peers and instructors and talk their way through an emergency. They also had to answer general knowledge questions to the satisfaction of the instructors. Well, we were at the end of the training cycle, in the formation phase, so things tended to loosen up a bit as graduation grew nearer. So this one student was up in from of the class, and was asked to recite the reasons for calling "Knock-it-off" during a formation flight. There was some long mnemonic that I couldn't tell you, but it included stuff like "radio failure," "unidentified aircraft entered the MOA," "dangerous situation developing," things like that. Well, this stud says that he uses the acronym "the eight A's." Now, we're all scratching our heads, but sure... let's hear them. He proceeds to rattle off the list of KIO reasons. "A radio failure," "An unidentified aircraft enters the area," "A dangerous situation is developing," and so on, every item starting with the letter "A"... we all got a good laugh, and a lesson on how stupid most of these acronyms are.
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PM CAN VETO. ;) I don’t mind systems acronyms as long as it’s understood what each letter means. Checklist stuff? Unless it’s a bold face / underlined item, just use a checklist.

http://www.gensale.net/wp-blackhawk/References/Hydromechanical Unit.doc
 
Velocity173 said:
That’s true. They could’ve done it intentionally to get YT proceeds. I hear @Radar Contact makes more from YT than his ATC gig! :)
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Ha ha... the price per hour on the two is drastically different... :)

That said, I do typically have cameras rolling if the props are spinning so if I ever leave them in the wells the world will be able to see it go down if they want to. It's my HD enhanced CVR.
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t know if @Timbeck2 or @Radar Contact agree, but I think having an ATC background made me a much better pilot. It forced my brain to think in a way I had never experienced before. It trained me into being not just a multitasker but a priority multitasker and problem solver. It was an experience that has carried over into my flying and has served me well.
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I was a commercial, CFI, MEI before ATC and now with the full understanding of the ATC system and the enhanced ability to multi-task (ATC requires you to listen to multiple things at once out of both ears while talking and thinking about the next transmission...I'm sure there are other things similar) I'd say there is no doubt ATC has made me a much better pilot.
 
Radar Contact said:
I was a commercial, CFI, MEI before ATC and now with the full understanding of the ATC system and the enhanced ability to multi-task (ATC requires you to listen to multiple things at once out of both ears while talking and thinking about the next transmission...I'm sure there are other things similar) I'd say there is no doubt ATC has made me a much better pilot.
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I remember as a student on approach my monitor would get mad and slam my hand down on the strip. “Write!” Or I’d get “Ok if you’re not gonna write and talk at the same time, I’ll just take your pen away!” :D
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t know if @Timbeck2 or @Radar Contact agree, but I think having an ATC background made me a much better pilot.
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Not in the sense of flying a plane but in the sense of knowing how ATC works has made me a better pilot, especially locally. I know all the freqs, I anticipate what I'm going to get for a departure because I read it all the time to other pilots. Its pretty cool (and I've seen it more than once on Kevin's videos) when you personally know who's on the other end of the radio. I've had more than a few flights where everyone I talked to was someone I once worked with or worked for me. I've mentioned it before and I'll say it again. After new controllers get rated, I take them up and show them the other side and how difficult it can be to see traffic and (in turbulence) how difficult it can be to even tune a radio. Plus I let them fly and more often than not, they realize that flying is a LOT of multitasking that they didn't understand until they actually saw it firsthand.
 
ateamer said:
Taser originally stood for Thomas A. Swift’s Electric Rifle. If it was ever spelled in all caps, though, it was long before Tasers hit the market in the 80s.
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Interesting fact: They had to add the "A" because Thomas didn't have a middle name. Just some useless information you can use to impress all your geeky friends at parties.
 
ateamer said:
He flew it about 70 miles. This happened at my home airpark a few years ago. I didn’t live here yet, but have heard about it from a lot of neighbors who saw it happen. The pilot flew to KFXE and the plane is still there. There are gouges from the props in the pavement.
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Found this vid of the interview afterward. Odd explanation??
 
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