How do you forget to lower the gear?

SkyDog58 said:
So just a couple of quick questions.

Besides when doing GUMP, who here refers to the landing gear as undercarriage rather than gear? We say main gear, nose gear, gear up, gear down, gear handle, gear horn, etc.

Also, when talking about the liquid that goes in the tanks, who routinely says gas rather than fuel? We typically say fuel tanks, fuel pump, fuel flow, fuel injected, fuel selector, etc.

That is something that has always bothered me about the acronym. It is so contrived.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it’s contrived. Contrived to be pronounceable, memorable and therefore more likely to be used. Say FGMP a few times.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah, it’s contrived. Contrived to be pronounceable, memorable and therefore more likely to be used. Say FGMP a few times.
Click to expand...

And you need a memorable, pronounceable acronym to help you memorize four words? Why not just memorize four words?
 
GAMP then?
Gear Avgas etc

I’m probably going to be a mess in the pattern tomorrow trying to not think about this thread.
 
This is for you guys who claim you hate acronyms and never use them. Recognize any?

GUMPS, NDB, VOR, CRAFT, ETA, ETE, SOS, PAN(pan pan), POTUS, SCUBA, KISS, FUBAR, ASAP, BASE (jumping), GIF, TAZER, AFK, LOL, CIA, FBI, ATF, CPS, UPS, USPS, NPS, ETC, NASA, DMV, OSHA, NAFTA, SWAT, POW, MIA, AWOL, DOA, DOB, DIY, AIDS, ADHD, ADD, HIV, FAQ, AKA, DBA, EST, CST, MST, PST, DST, MBA, MD, HR, NASDAQ, AA, AAA, AARP, ESPN, NBC, CBS, HBO, TBS, CMT, BBC, FOX, MTV, NatGeo, NFL, NHL, NBA, PGA,SPCA, ATM, RIP, TGIF, SMYT, S&M, BSD, RTFM, STFU, ID, PC, SOL, WD40, YAHOO, IKEA, LASER, GEICO, USAA, NFCU, BofA, PenFed, AFLAC, SPAM, A&W, BMW, TCBY, 3M, CDROM, AHOLE
 
Salty said:
This guy flew a couple hundred miles after this....

Click to expand...

He flew it about 70 miles. This happened at my home airpark a few years ago. I didn’t live here yet, but have heard about it from a lot of neighbors who saw it happen. The pilot flew to KFXE and the plane is still there. There are gouges from the props in the pavement.
 
SToL said:
This is for you guys who claim you hate acronyms and never use them. Recognize any?

GUMPS, NDB, VOR, CRAFT, ETA, ETE, SOS, PAN(pan pan), POTUS, SCUBA, KISS, FUBAR, ASAP, BASE (jumping), GIF, TAZER, AFK, LOL, CIA, FBI, ATF, CPS, UPS, USPS, NPS, ETC, NASA, DMV, OSHA, NAFTA, SWAT, POW, MIA, AWOL, DOA, DOB, DIY, AIDS, ADHD, ADD, HIV, FAQ, AKA, DBA, EST, CST, MST, PST, DST, MBA, MD, HR, NASDAQ, AA, AAA, AARP, ESPN, NBC, CBS, HBO, TBS, CMT, BBC, FOX, MTV, NatGeo, NFL, NHL, NBA, PGA,SPCA, ATM, RIP, TGIF, SMYT, S&M, BSD, RTFM, STFU, ID, PC, SOL, WD40, YAHOO, IKEA, LASER, GEICO, USAA, NFCU, BofA, PenFed, AFLAC, SPAM, A&W, BMW, TCBY, 3M, CDROM, AHOLE
Click to expand...
Have no idea what a significant percentage of those stand for. Also, none of those after the first one are used for a critical phase of flight or any sort of checklist.
 
SToL said:
This is for you guys who claim you hate acronyms and never use them. Recognize any?

GUMPS, NDB, VOR, CRAFT, ETA, ETE, SOS, PAN(pan pan), POTUS, SCUBA, KISS, FUBAR, ASAP, BASE (jumping), GIF, TAZER, AFK, LOL, CIA, FBI, ATF, CPS, UPS, USPS, NPS, ETC, NASA, DMV, OSHA, NAFTA, SWAT, POW, MIA, AWOL, DOA, DOB, DIY, AIDS, ADHD, ADD, HIV, FAQ, AKA, DBA, EST, CST, MST, PST, DST, MBA, MD, HR, NASDAQ, AA, AAA, AARP, ESPN, NBC, CBS, HBO, TBS, CMT, BBC, FOX, MTV, NatGeo, NFL, NHL, NBA, PGA,SPCA, ATM, RIP, TGIF, SMYT, S&M, BSD, RTFM, STFU, ID, PC, SOL, WD40, YAHOO, IKEA, LASER, GEICO, USAA, NFCU, BofA, PenFed, AFLAC, SPAM, A&W, BMW, TCBY, 3M, CDROM, AHOLE
Click to expand...

You forgot the MILF.
 
EdFred said:
Have no idea what a significant percentage of those stand for. Also, none of those after the first one are used for a critical phase of flight or any sort of checklist.
Click to expand...
I tend to use CRAFT as a check list
 
Do not confused abbreviations or acronyms with mnemonics. POTUS is an acronym. PAN PAN isn't any of these, it's just a term corrupted from a foreign language.

ARROW always seemed to have been strained to force things to match. O varies widely from aircraft to what it means. W is not required specifically by any regulation other than it is part of the O in most cases (at least part of it).
 
EdFred said:
I don't. Just write down the clearance as given. XXX filed 040 090/10 nnn.nn 7112
Click to expand...
Yep, and CRAFT helps me to verify I got it all. Just because you don't use something as a check list doesn't mean others won't.
No critique intended for how you do things. If it works for someone, I'm generally don't critique a technique.
 
If you didn't get it all, clearance will repeat it. ;)
 
SToL said:
This is for you guys who claim you hate acronyms and never use them. Recognize any?

GUMPS, NDB, VOR, CRAFT, ETA, ETE, SOS, PAN(pan pan), POTUS, SCUBA, KISS, FUBAR, ASAP, BASE (jumping), GIF, TAZER, AFK, LOL, CIA, FBI, ATF, CPS, UPS, USPS, NPS, ETC, NASA, DMV, OSHA, NAFTA, SWAT, POW, MIA, AWOL, DOA, DOB, DIY, AIDS, ADHD, ADD, HIV, FAQ, AKA, DBA, EST, CST, MST, PST, DST, MBA, MD, HR, NASDAQ, AA, AAA, AARP, ESPN, NBC, CBS, HBO, TBS, CMT, BBC, FOX, MTV, NatGeo, NFL, NHL, NBA, PGA,SPCA, ATM, RIP, TGIF, SMYT, S&M, BSD, RTFM, STFU, ID, PC, SOL, WD40, YAHOO, IKEA, LASER, GEICO, USAA, NFCU, BofA, PenFed, AFLAC, SPAM, A&W, BMW, TCBY, 3M, CDROM, AHOLE
Click to expand...
Most of these aren’t acronyms. You have acronyms, initialisms, and mnemonics all mixed together.

And what does “TAZER” stand for?
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah, it’s contrived. Contrived to be pronounceable, memorable and therefore more likely to be used. Say FGMP a few times.
Click to expand...
..which is exactly the reason I say the mnemonic often becomes more important than what it represents. With GUMP, someone along the way selected four of the many items we check and adjust for the landing phase. I'm guessing the four were selected, not because of relative importance, but because them made something pronounceable. So we teach "Prop" and "Undercarriage" in airplane in which neither is adjustable by the pilot. At the opposite end, the mnemonic is often added to because the basic one doesn't cover enough. Despite the "undercarriage," GUMP is one of three mnemonic devices with at least some utility. But it doesn't do enough. It doesn't cover carb heat, boost pumps, wing flap, cowl flaps, etc, so we end up with long useless bastardizations in which the essentials are lost.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Most of these aren’t acronyms. You have acronyms, initialisms, and mnemonics all mixed together.

And what does “TAZER” stand for?
Click to expand...

You don't expect someone who doesn't know the difference between an acronym or a mnemonic to realize they misspellt Taser, do you? Or to know that it is an acronym for Thomas A Swift Electric Rifle? :D
 
flyingron said:
Do not confused abbreviations or acronyms with mnemonics. POTUS is an acronym. PAN PAN isn't any of these, it's just a term corrupted from a foreign language.

ARROW always seemed to have been strained to force things to match. O varies widely from aircraft to what it means. W is not required specifically by any regulation other than it is part of the O in most cases (at least part of it).
Click to expand...

PAN Possible Assistance Needed

Airworthiness Certificate
Radio License - which is no longer required
Registration
Operating Manual - (POH - Flight Manual etc.. simple)
Weight and Balance (Required on aircraft to be Airworthy)

This is not rocket science.
 
SToL said:
PAN Possible Assistance Needed

Airworthiness Certificate
Radio License - which is no longer required
Registration
Operating Manual - (POH - Flight Manual etc.. simple)
Weight and Balance (Required on aircraft to be Airworthy)

This is not rocket science.
Click to expand...

Pan is a misspelling of the French word panne, which means “breakdown” as in mechanical problem. That’s why it’s pronounced “pahn”. Similar to Mayday being “m’aidez”, French for “help me.”
 
SToL said:
PAN Possible Assistance Needed

Airworthiness Certificate
Radio License - which is no longer required
Registration
Operating Manual - (POH - Flight Manual etc.. simple)
Weight and Balance (Required on aircraft to be Airworthy)

This is not rocket science.
Click to expand...
The "O" actually stands for operating "limitations," not "manual." Grab the required paperwork for a 1950s era airplane and you will see why.

And one can get into some very interesting discussions about airplanes which do not have a requirement for a weight and balance on board in order to be airworthy.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Most of these aren’t acronyms. You have acronyms, initialisms, and mnemonics all mixed together.

And what does “TAZER” stand for?
Click to expand...

You are correct, these are not all acronyms. I felt the point was, we all use abbreviated meanings commonly in our lives and for the most part have no issues with it. But for some reason when it comes to aviation it becomes too difficult to learn.

Tazer was a typo and actually I mean to take it out when I put in Laser, but forgot. I apologize and promise to try my best next time. I do occasionally make mistakes, which is why I repeat GUMPS over and over and over in the pattern.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The "O" actually stands for operating "limitations," not "manual." Grab the required paperwork for a 1950s era airplane and you will see why.

And one can get into some very interesting discussions about airplanes which do not have a requirement for a weight and balance on board in order to be airworthy.
Click to expand...

It's possible, however I learned it back in the 70s as manual. But if you are correct I can easily remember the abbreviation and know that 'limitations' are found in the manual. Not a problem for me. Other's milage may vary. Oh, there's an abbreviation for that too.

It's not likely that a student pilot, or even most pilots, who should be learning ARROW, are going to be learning in, or flying one of those aircraft. If they do, then they are the exception to the norm and should still learn it for most airplanes.
 
Last edited:
SToL said:
and ever so happily too. Failure to repeat a clearance back properly only ties up radio time, the controllers time and makes the pilot appear unprofessional.

Oh I know, you're not a professional pilot...
Click to expand...

Well, at least not one with an onset of Alzheimer's and various complexes.

Recently I've heard waaaaaaaay more 121 135 and paid 91 pilots tying up the frequency with missed calls and clearances than I have us "lowly" pay for our own fuel pilots. So much for being a pro, eh?
 
EdFred said:
If you didn't get it all, clearance will repeat it. ;)
Click to expand...
I'm sure they will repeat it. Using my check list helps me to verify whether I need it repeated by ATC.

Again, it works for me. I'm not trying to change how you do things, your method obviously works for you.

SToL said:
and ever so happily too. Failure to repeat a clearance back properly only ties up radio time, the controllers time and makes the pilot appear unprofessional.
Oh I know, you're not a professional pilot...
Click to expand...
I'm less concerned with me being appearing unprofessional than making sure it is correct and not wasting the controller's time.

EdFred said:
Well, at least not one with an onset of Alzheimer's and various complexes.
Click to expand...
Well, that's a thoughtful and reasoned response. I'm curious, why does someone using CRAFT as a check list bother you so?

I've learned theythere may be several ways to accomplish the same task. Some are easier. In certain circumstances, some ways are safer, but that doesn't apply in this case. With the exceptions of the dangerous actions, I generally don't care how someone does something.
 
Last edited:
EdFred said:
Well, at least not one with an onset of Alzheimer's and various complexes.

Recently I've heard waaaaaaaay more 121 135 and paid 91 pilots tying up the frequency with missed calls and clearances than I have us "lowly" pay for our own fuel pilots. So much for being a pro, eh?
Click to expand...

I think a lot more of them are getting clearances then us lowly pay for our own fuel pilots . Eh?
 
SToL said:
I think a lot more of them are getting clearances then us lowly pay for our own fuel pilots . Eh?
Click to expand...

Then we what?

Maybe you should come up with a mnemonics for then versus than. You know, because you want to be so professional in appearance.
 
SToL said:
PAN Possible Assistance Needed
Click to expand...
That's made up. The radio call PAN like MAYDAY are anglicizations of the French words panne and m'aidez respectively.

Airworthiness Certificate
Radio License - which is no longer required
Registration
Operating Manual - (POH - Flight Manual etc.. simple)
Weight and Balance (Required on aircraft to be Airworthy)
Click to expand...
But you're wrong about the O and the W. Not all aircraft are required to have a flight manual. My aircraft has one, but it is not the required operating limitations. There's a separate set of operating limitations and required placards. You won't find anything that says W&B is required though those it's usually rolled into the "O". For example, my airplane is required to have the envelope limits in the plane and a seperate equipment list.

Even when the Radio License was required ARROW was a list forced into the mnemonic. The O is often misstated (as you said). The W requirement is not directly required. There are often additional documents required (my plane requires a bunch of supplements to the non-existant flight manual as well as the presence of the manuals for several of the avionics: IFR GPS and Autopilot).
 
SToL said:
It's not likely that a student pilot, or even most pilots, who should be learning ARROW, are going to be learning in, or flying one of those aircraft. If they do, then they are the exception to the norm and should still learn it for most airplanes.
Click to expand...
It's still WRONG for most airplanes.
 
EdFred said:
Then we what?

Maybe you should come up with a mnemonics for then versus than. You know, because you want to be so professional in appearance.
Click to expand...

You are correct, I do want to appear professional. I take a lot of pride in my aviation abilities and I want to portray a good image to others. You are free to behave any way you want, but others do see it.
 
flyingron said:
It's still WRONG for most airplanes.
Click to expand...

You're saying 'MOST' airplanes are not required to:

Have an Airworthiness Certificate?
Have a Registration Certifcate?
Have an Operating Manual - POH, Flight Manual, Limitations etc?
Have a Weight and Balance?

I'm open to learning new things and I actually enjoy it. Please explain how this is wrong so I can learn.
 
SToL said:
You are correct, I do want to appear professional. I take a lot of pride in my aviation abilities and I want to portray a good image to others. You are free to behave any way you want, but others do see it.
Click to expand...

Yep, and on my last flight I was with a 121 captain in the right seat who said I'd make a great airline captain and my radio work was top notch (or the equivalent I don't remember the exact words). All without mnemonics. Go figure.
 
SToL said:
It's possible, however I learned it back in the 70s as manual. But if you are correct I can easily remember the abbreviation and know that 'limitations' are found in the manual. Not a problem for me. Other's milage may vary. Oh, there's an abbreviation for that too.

It's not likely that a student pilot, or even most pilots, who should be learning ARROW, are going to be learning in, or flying one of those aircraft. If they do, then they are the exception to the norm and should still learn it for most airplanes.
Click to expand...
"Those" aircraft include 60's era Cherokees and Cessnas. They still seem to be in pretty wide use as primary trainers.

Funny, just this past week, I was contacted by a CFI who had done most of his training in newer aircraft (post 1980 :D). He was faced with a private student who owns a 1972 Cessna 172. It does not have an "approved airplane flight manual" (not required until 1979) and has an "owner's manual" which is not N-Number specific and doesn't follow the POH format started about 3 years later. It's limitations are a combination of a limitations chapter in the owner's manual, its TCDS and CAR 3. It has a weight and balance data sheet (and instruction how to use it) but it is one of those very few models without a specific requirement to have it on board.
 
SToL said:
You're saying 'MOST' airplanes are not required to:

Have an Airworthiness Certificate?
Have a Registration Certifcate?
Have an Operating Manual - POH, Flight Manual, Limitations etc?
Have a Weight and Balance?

I'm open to learning new things and I actually enjoy it. Please explain how this is wrong so I can learn.
Click to expand...

I've said it in my initial statement and in my rebuttal to your previous insults. There is nothing in the regs that require W&B as a stand-alone document. It is only required because it's part of the "O" or the like. As I stated, in your insulting response to me you said "operating manual." I pointed out that was incorrect.
 
EdFred said:
Yep, and on my last flight I was with a 121 captain in the right seat who said I'd make a great airline captain and my radio work was top notch (or the equivalent I don't remember the exact words). All without mnemonics. Go figure.
Click to expand...

You can brag all you want, there's only one God and you're not him. Go figure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top