Would you leave your Job

I know that, but your theory was that the major airlines will need to do this at some point.

They may have to do it, or maybe not. I don't know, just throwing it out there. There's been talk of scholarships to train pilots. Delta does it now w/ Western Michigan University. It's set up for minorities and women though. They get their degree, flight training, then go to a regional to gain experience, and then move over to Delta. Knew a few females who did it at ASA when I flew there.
 
How would you rate the job satisfaction now, compared to flying AH-1s in the Marines? Probably an apples to oranges comparison with the monetary differences but just curious if it's something you miss doing.

I miss sleeping in the sand, open sky ****ters and playing with my gun ....... NOT
 
They may have to do it, or maybe not. I don't know, just throwing it out there. There's been talk of scholarships to train pilots. Delta does it now w/ Western Michigan University. It's set up for minorities and women though. They get their degree, flight training, then go to a regional to gain experience, and then move over to Delta. Knew a few females who did it at ASA when I flew there.
I don't know either, but I don't think a few scholarships are relevant to the question.

Also, if you go by the answers from airline pilots here you may not be getting the full picture, because most career pilots with a ho-hum or negative view of the industry would not be hanging out here.
 
Depends greatly on the gig. There are some great corporate jobs with good pay and lot of down time and a lot where you never know when/where or for how long.

121 flying at least has a schedule that you can plan your life around.

Personally speaking, 121 appeals to me more than corporate.

My wife manages the corporate jet for her company. My heart goes out to their pilots. They truly have no life. It's "be ready whenever the owner (or his wife) gets the urge to go somewhere." If the company isn't using it, the charter company might call and schedule a last minute trip. Since the family likes to spend holidays at one of their vacation homes in FL or the St. Thomas, they're often away from their families on holidays (or fighting holiday travel to deadhead back home.)

Yesterday I got my March schedule. I have all my weekends off, two of which are four-day weekends off. Those are locked in and I can't be called to fly. Most of my flying days I'll show up about 7:30 pm. Fly off somewhere, spend 6-7 hours sleeping, then fly home in the morning and be free after 8 or 8:30 a.m.

I love my job.
 
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My wife manages the corporate jet for her company. My heart goes out to their pilots. They truly have no life. It's "be ready whenever the owner (or his wife) gets the urge to go somewhere.) If the company isn't using it, the charter company might call and schedule a last minute trip. Since the family likes to spend holidays at one of their vacation homes in FL or the St. homas, they're often away from their families on holidays (or fighting holiday travel to deadhead back home.)



Yesterday I got my March schedule. I have all my weekends off, two of which are four-day weekends off. Those are locked in and I can't be called to fly. Most of my flying days I'll show up about 7:30 pm. Fly off somewhere, spend 6-7 hours sleeping, then fly home in the morning and be free after 8 or 8:30 a.m.



I love my job.

Are you living in base or commuting?
 
My wife manages the corporate jet for her company. My heart goes out to their pilots. They truly have no life. It's "be ready whenever the owner (or his wife) gets the urge to go somewhere.) If the company isn't using it, the charter company might call and schedule a last minute trip. Since the family likes to spend holidays at one of their vacation homes in FL or the St. homas, they're often away from their families on holidays (or fighting holiday travel to deadhead back home.)

Yesterday I got my March schedule. I have all my weekends off, two of which are four-day weekends off. Those are locked in and I can't be called to fly. Most of my flying days I'll show up about 7:30 pm. Fly off somewhere, spend 6-7 hours sleeping, then fly home in the morning and be free after 8 or 8:30 a.m.

I love my job.
Which is exactly why I didn't want to do corporate. I don't want to be attached to my phone. I don't want to always have a bag packed. I don't want to be stuck in Podunk International FBO for 8 hours. I don't want to be told departure is at 6am then pax don't get here until 12pm. Airline life seems more structured.
 
Which is exactly why I didn't want to do corporate. I don't want to be attached to my phone.

To be fair, you're going to spend plenty of your career attached to your phone when you're on reserve. Probably not too much at the regional level with all the movement, but you will at the majors - especially since you're looking to get to the biggest piece of iron you can, as soon as you can. That's going to mean a lot of reserve. :wink2:
 
To be fair, you're going to spend plenty of your career attached to your phone when you're on reserve. Probably not too much at the regional level with all the movement, but you will at the majors - especially since you're looking to get to the biggest piece of iron you can, as soon as you can. That's going to mean a lot of reserve. :wink2:

True, but if you are willing to live in base, reserve can actually be a sweet deal.
 
True, but if you are willing to live in base, reserve can actually be a sweet deal.

Oh definitely. We have lots of people (living in base, of course) that bid it intentionally. The 757/767 short call guys get used so little they end up in the sim every three months to do bounces.

I don't have kids, so I usually stick to my crappy junior lines to go make some money. I'm sure there'll be a day where my home situation will require me to take my foot off the gas. Once that happens I'll be like my buddy - his entire goal is to be "below guarantee - under 76 hours for the entire year!"
 
Oh definitely. We have lots of people (living in base, of course) that bid it intentionally. The 757/767 short call guys get used so little they end up in the sim every three months to do bounces.

I don't have kids, so I usually stick to my crappy junior lines to go make some money. I'm sure there'll be a day where my home situation will require me to take my foot off the gas. Once that happens I'll be like my buddy - his entire goal is to be "below guarantee - under 76 hours for the entire year!"

I had lunch with the most senior pilot for another regional who did just that. He had a young family and wanted to be home. So he sat reserve on last-called status, and only flew 80 hours all year. He said he did just enough to avoid the sim!
 
Yeah, except living in domicile is not a given, considering volatility, who hired you, and the demographics/stage of life of your household. But it is absolutely the key to good QOL at the 121 level.

There's a reason the majority of airline pilots commute however. It ain't because they don't "realize" the benefits of in-domicile living. Think about that for a second. For the pros, that question is merely rhetorical of course. Let's keep it balanced folks.
 
To be fair, you're going to spend plenty of your career attached to your phone when you're on reserve. Probably not too much at the regional level with all the movement, but you will at the majors - especially since you're looking to get to the biggest piece of iron you can, as soon as you can. That's going to mean a lot of reserve. :wink2:
The goal is to work 4 days a month like my dad! Hope I can get a base in NY. I like that the flights will be more scheduled in the airlines. Don't want to have the customer say let's leave in 10 minutes when I live 20 minutes away. I'd rather have somewhat of a set schedule.
 
Yeah, except living in domicile is not a given, considering volatility, who hired you, and the demographics/stage of life of your household. But it is absolutely the key to good QOL at the 121 level.

There's a reason the majority of airline pilots commute however. It ain't because they don't "realize" the benefits of in-domicile living. Think about that for a second. For the pros, that question is merely rhetorical of course. Let's keep it balanced folks.

Understood. But if my domicile changed I'd consider moving there very strongly, and plan to commute to whatever it was that had me living in the original domicile.
 
I've kicked the idea of a second career in aviation around a time or two. Definitely not for an airline job (started way too late for that), but I could see myself phasing into a private job somewhere down the road. I was lucky enough to get into the industry I have wanted to be in since I was pretty young, something not so easily done. Not that I can offer any advice on this, but I have had the same thoughts. Wouldn't do it for an airline job though, maybe FedEx or something?
 
I am a lawyer - if I ever hit that big lick, or when I retire, I am going to become an air ambulance helo pilot.
 
I am a lawyer - if I ever hit that big lick, or when I retire, I am going to become an air ambulance helo pilot.

Lol! I hope you like living on food stamps.:lol:
 
Perhaps you're missing the pun??

Ambulance chaser? Yes, I get it.

Just trying to bring the reality of the pay. You're not going to get rich flying air ambulance. Then again, I never joined for the money anyway.
 
Ambulance chaser? Yes, I get it.

Just trying to bring the reality of the pay. You're not going to get rich flying air ambulance. Then again, I never joined for the money anyway.

You missed the first clause of his statement. He wouldn't be doing it for the money. Sorta like me.
 
Every time the topic of Airline Pilots comes up, I feel there are a lot of stereotypes and misconceptions about what being a pilot for a Part 121 Flag carrier entails, what it doesn't, what it pays, and what the days on/off are. I thought the OP posed a hypothetical, if you could leave your job right now for a job as an FO for a major airline. I take that to mean one of the "Big 3" (United, Delta, American) or FedEx/UPS. Maybe even SWA. It evolved into "paying dues" as a flight instructor or as a regional FO. That wasn't the question, and sure that would be the road to that position.

His was a magical if tomorrow, "poof" you have your ATP-ME, Class I medical, 5,000 hours TPIC and an offer for a class date at Delta, would you take it? No paying dues as a regional guy making $25,000. Straight into a 767 right seat. $70,000 this year, $110,000 the next... B-plan retirement, pass privileges, etc.

And I'm not saying it's for everyone and I'm not saying you should. I get those who say they wouldn't enjoy it. There are a lot of jobs that you guys do that I wouldn't want. That's what makes the world go 'round.

I'm just amazed at the misconceptions of what the job is and what it isn't...

I agree.

The OP started with this thread stating giving it all up to go to a major (Big Three like you said).

Here's UAL's pilot pay scale. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/united_airlines

To get an idea of what one would make as an FO (or captain when upgraded), take those numbers and multiply it by 1000-1100. Now the way most people talk here, I realize most have jobs where they wouldn't tie their shoes for less than $30k/month, but there is some serious money to be made working for a major airline. And that's not including the profit sharing (as of late) and the money thrown into a retirement fund by the company.

Over $80k/yr first year and hitting $120k/yr on year two. 16% on top of that thrown into a B-plan every year.

My schedule? I had a week of vacation this month and worked 7 days total. Next month, no vacation and am working 11.

I drive to work and I see these people sitting in traffic and it boggles my mind that they do this FIVE DAYS a week. Out the door at 7am and home at 6pm.. rinse and repeat. Two days off and do it all again. I'm lucky enough to be home so much that I have to put alerts on my phone to remind me I have a trip coming up the next day. Being home watching the kids grow up is great, though I think my wife wishes I flew a little more.. :D

I just don't get it. I can see not wanting to risk it all later in life to start off at a regional and run the risk of staying there, but under the OP's scenario of going to a Legacy... GO!


I've known pilots 50s and 60s who got hired at the majors, but usually had a lot of experience, such as military. Regionals will take you though.


We had a 61yr old newhire recently.


This is by far the most common theme people here on PoA give for not wanting to become an airline pilot. I get not wanting to become a Part 121 guy/gal, but I never got that analogy. What exactly about being an airline pilot is analogous to being a bus driver? Can someone explain? I'm serious. I don't get the connection...


Lots of point A to point B flying obviously. Corporate pilots have more variety, but they're really no different than taxi/uber drives if we're talking about car/bus analogies. Nearly all pilots move goods/people from one point to another. That's the job.

I like the "Here's a 777. Take it to Tokyo and Singapore and bring it back in a week" job. Everyone has their own tastes.
 
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Lots of point A to point B flying obviously. Corporate pilots have more variety, but they're really no different than taxi/uber drives if we're talking about car/bus analogies. Nearly all pilots move goods/people from one point to another. That's the job.
True that corporate/charter pilots are limo/uber drivers, but I like the variety; new people, new places. Although after many years there are not too many new places, but there are some. Good thing there are different types of jobs for different types of people.
 
You missed the first clause of his statement. He wouldn't be doing it for the money. Sorta like me.

Ok, well I'd say it's a perfect retirement job in that case then. Super easy and you're home every night. Of course that's all dependent on getting 2,000 hrs helo time, 1,000 hrs PIC and 1,000 hrs turbine and at a bare min 100 hrs NVG. Even then, I'd say we average 4,000 total hrs at a typical base. It's not a time builder job.
 
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True that corporate/charter pilots are limo/uber drivers, but I like the variety; new people, new places. Although after many years there are not too many new places, but there are some. Good thing there are different types of jobs for different types of people.


Yep.... and like most people, I enjoy taking uber over the bus any day of the week.. :D


It was touched on that the 121 job can get boring, but there is a lot more variety out there than most first picture. You can go fly the 737 and spend your trips flying down to the Caribbean domestic destinations. Get tired of that? Go try the 757/767 and see Europe on the company's dime, along with some HI. Want some time off and go to "exotic" lands? Hit up the 777, 787 or 747 and see Australia, the Orient, India, or more Europe.

Get tired of that and want to do some more flying instead of watching the A/P? The 737 has as much flying as one can take.
 
Interesting question. I've got a well established career and earn a good living, better than anything I could earn in aviation. So if I went into an aviation career it would be with a down grade of my earning ability, quite a serious down grade to be honest. I love flying and sometimes I think maybe it would be worth it to do something I really enjoy. The grass is always greener on the other side, though, so I can't help but think that if I did something crazy like that I would regret it. So right now I just fly for fun, fly my family around and volunteer for Angel Flights. I dream of becoming a bush pilot in Alaska or something like that but honestly it is tough to even think of giving up on my career right now.
 
True that corporate/charter pilots are limo/uber drivers, but I like the variety; new people, new places. Although after many years there are not too many new places, but there are some. Good thing there are different types of jobs for different types of people.

Very valid point. Some people really enjoy the corporate life. Some like the airlines. And even some like flying boxes on the back side of the clock. Not everyone is wired the same.
 
Op here. I seldom travel for my IT career but when I do I hate going to the airport, finding a parking space, get on the shuttle bus, pass through security. Then I shuffle through all the people. Eat poorly, get a rental car, and finally get to a hotel. You airline pilots do this everyday? I think that would just kill the passion of flying.
 
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Im amazed a lot of you make so much money that its the number one reason you wouldn't leave your job for flying for a major because of the pay cut. I understand youhave to support you families and all but some of you sound a little greedy. No offense to anyone. It's your lifestyle. If I would leave my job for a dream airline job it would have to be about the same amount of money to support the life style we/family have became accustomed to. We are not rich by any means but we have a nice home, go on nice vacations and have everything we need.
 
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I think that would just kill the passion of flying.

Something I discovered years ago. Flying for money and flying for fun (or other personal reasons) are two completely different animals. Most pilots I know don't realize that.

As far as me going to an airline? At one time I thought that's what I wanted to do. About 15 or so years ago, I came to the conclusion that neither me, nor the airlines, would get along together. I like my blue collar flying much better.
 
Op here. I seldom travel for my IT career but when I do I hate going to the airport, finding a parking space, get on the shuttle bus, pass through security. Then I shuffle through all the people. Eat poorly, get a rental car, and finally get to a hotel. You airline pilots do this everyday? I think that would just kill the passion of flying.

Not quite ; drive to airport park in employee lot walk to "Known Crewmember" portal completely BYPASS ALL TSA nightmares go to crew lounge get coffee watch big screen tv away from the drama of the terminal. Fly challenging trip in all kinds Wx from an office with an incredible changing view. Breeze thru crew lane in customs to awaiting SUV go to four star hotel. Have a wonderful meal at small local place that tourists have not yet found.

But that IT world must be great - I can't think of any other vocation that you can make so many crucial mistakes and still keep a job. I'm not really allowed even one.
 
Im amazed a lot of you make so much money that its the number one reason you wouldn't leave your job for flying for a major because of the pay cut. I understand youhave to support you families and all but some of you sound a little greedy. No offense to anyone. It's your lifestyle. If I would leave my job for a dream airline job it would have to be about the same amount of money to support the life style we/family have became accustomed to. We are not rich by any means but we have a nice home, go on nice vacations and have everything we need.


In my case it's based on an objective real problem. We have no kids. That wasn't totally by choice, but we've long since decided that it isn't likely to happen. Adoption is not on our radar either.

There isn't going to be anyone around to intervene if we're being poorly cared for in our twilight years. And if statistics hold up, I'll be long gone and it'll be my wonderful wife who'd be suffering for it.

She's worked too long in medicine for me to easily say I don't want her to have the best elderly care that can be bought with cold hard cash. And I've seen the difference between her elderly patients' care who have real insurance or capital to spend, and those relying on the State.

So deciding to leave a high paid job where I'm socking away money, mostly for her, but ostensibly for both of us to retire on, and cutting my salary by 2/3s or more, isn't an easy decision. We're debt free and saving and investing for those salad days to come.

The hard part is knowing when the savings and investments are "good enough".

Especially in what looks to be a continuous downward valuation of the dollar, creating a hard numbers need for a pretty large percentage of growth in salary over time.

(The old truism, if your annual salary increase wasn't at least the rate of inflation, you're working for a lower salary next year... is cold hard mathematical reality.)

It's not greed. It's trying to be correctly fiscally prepared for the long term.

I don't go to the office for fun. I didn't get good at it and demand a pretty large salary for fun either.

An old boss always joked, "If you can't bill for it, it's just a hobby." I'm billing.

Helping the cause lately is that she's officially been promoted back to a Director level title and is awaiting the official title change and pay bump right now. She handles ops and her boss handles business. Not a bad gig for a nurse inside a major medical organization.

Obviously she can do pretty well taking care of herself.

I just don't like the idea of leaving it much up to chance. Life already has enough bad surprises. We weren't expecting to lose my dad at 61, and since he had me when he was really young, I now think once in a while that I'm less than 20 years away myself from when he dropped dead suddenly. Wake up call.

We've been discussing me changing careers lately. Or even just cutting back and mixing careers. Both of us are totally on board with the "do something you like" mentality. That's not the objective problem that we're trying to solve.

Taking a flying leap off of a cliff is fine with both of us. She did it a few years back when she switched nursing specialties.

It's the questions of what that does to us, mostly her, in our 70s, 80s, 90s, or even 100s, if one or both of us make it that far.

And just today a friend posted his wife's mom's birthday party at 106 on Facebook. Good freaking lord. Neither one of us really wants to live that long. It's an obscene idea for a couple without kids.

I'm sure our nieces and nephews would be kind. But that's not the same as having your own kids around to keep an eye on things.

And our society isn't likely to come to legal or ethical terms with assisted suicide before either one of is reaches an advanced age and has a terminal illness either. Bankruptcy. Yay.

Medical costs in our very old age will either be ungodly expensive to the point of being a bankruptcy inducing event, or socialized. Nobody knows which right now.

If it's expensive, that's something one can plan for, while in the best earning years. If it's socialized, we'd obviously be the demographic most likely to be horribly abused. Nobody around to deal with the bureaucracy for us, no real voting power or voice, just forgotten.

We already do that crap to our Vets. I see it. You see it. The people who want that system see it. It's not hard to see where my future lies, if I have to rely on a similar system to "do the right thing". Won't happen.

So... Not greedy. Abundantly cautious. Maybe more than necessary, but there's no family to fall back on for us.

I was an only kid on dad's side, and everyone there is gone, other than distant cousins and they're all older than I by many years.

I've got a stepsister and a half sister on the other side, and one is always broke and the other is in and out of touch for unknown reasons.

Karen's family are all significantly older than her.

We're gonna be the Last of the Mohicans 'round here. It makes you think pretty hard about the retirement finances.

Unless y'all wanna contribute to our retirement fund? I'm game! Haha.
 
In my case it's based on an objective real problem. We have no kids. That wasn't totally by choice, but we've long since decided that it isn't likely to happen. Adoption is not on our radar either.

There isn't going to be anyone around to intervene if we're being poorly cared for in our twilight years. And if statistics hold up, I'll be long gone and it'll be my wonderful wife who'd be suffering for it.

She's worked too long in medicine for me to easily say I don't want her to have the best elderly care that can be bought with cold hard cash. And I've seen the difference between her elderly patients' care who have real insurance or capital to spend, and those relying on the State.

So deciding to leave a high paid job where I'm socking away money, mostly for her, but ostensibly for both of us to retire on, and cutting my salary by 2/3s or more, isn't an easy decision. We're debt free and saving and investing for those salad days to come.

The hard part is knowing when the savings and investments are "good enough".

Especially in what looks to be a continuous downward valuation of the dollar, creating a hard numbers need for a pretty large percentage of growth in salary over time.

(The old truism, if your annual salary increase wasn't at least the rate of inflation, you're working for a lower salary next year... is cold hard mathematical reality.)

It's not greed. It's trying to be correctly fiscally prepared for the long term.

I don't go to the office for fun. I didn't get good at it and demand a pretty large salary for fun either.

An old boss always joked, "If you can't bill for it, it's just a hobby." I'm billing.

Helping the cause lately is that she's officially been promoted back to a Director level title and is awaiting the official title change and pay bump right now. She handles ops and her boss handles business. Not a bad gig for a nurse inside a major medical organization.

Obviously she can do pretty well taking care of herself.

I just don't like the idea of leaving it much up to chance. Life already has enough bad surprises. We weren't expecting to lose my dad at 61, and since he had me when he was really young, I now think once in a while that I'm less than 20 years away myself from when he dropped dead suddenly. Wake up call.

We've been discussing me changing careers lately. Or even just cutting back and mixing careers. Both of us are totally on board with the "do something you like" mentality. That's not the objective problem that we're trying to solve.

Taking a flying leap off of a cliff is fine with both of us. She did it a few years back when she switched nursing specialties.

It's the questions of what that does to us, mostly her, in our 70s, 80s, 90s, or even 100s, if one or both of us make it that far.

And just today a friend posted his wife's mom's birthday party at 106 on Facebook. Good freaking lord. Neither one of us really wants to live that long. It's an obscene idea for a couple without kids.

I'm sure our nieces and nephews would be kind. But that's not the same as having your own kids around to keep an eye on things.

And our society isn't likely to come to legal or ethical terms with assisted suicide before either one of is reaches an advanced age and has a terminal illness either. Bankruptcy. Yay.

Medical costs in our very old age will either be ungodly expensive to the point of being a bankruptcy inducing event, or socialized. Nobody knows which right now.

If it's expensive, that's something one can plan for, while in the best earning years. If it's socialized, we'd obviously be the demographic most likely to be horribly abused. Nobody around to deal with the bureaucracy for us, no real voting power or voice, just forgotten.

We already do that crap to our Vets. I see it. You see it. The people who want that system see it. It's not hard to see where my future lies, if I have to rely on a similar system to "do the right thing". Won't happen.

So... Not greedy. Abundantly cautious. Maybe more than necessary, but there's no family to fall back on for us.

I was an only kid on dad's side, and everyone there is gone, other than distant cousins and they're all older than I by many years.

I've got a stepsister and a half sister on the other side, and one is always broke and the other is in and out of touch for unknown reasons.

Karen's family are all significantly older than her.

We're gonna be the Last of the Mohicans 'round here. It makes you think pretty hard about the retirement finances.

Unless y'all wanna contribute to our retirement fund? I'm game! Haha.


Strangely, you and I are in the same boat with the same decision to make, only I don't have a spouse or any one else to "take care" of me. I also know first hand how expensive care can be later, or at the end, of life. I'm at the point that I could walk away period. If I didn't find at least a little satisfaction in work I would do it tomorrow. A complicating factor is that I will probably spend more money in "retirement" than I do now since I want to travel. I mean travel on my own terms, without any responsibility to a job.
 
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I am struggling with this exact scenario now. I own my own business and make a very nice living. No kids yet but wife is getting the itch. We are both older and I figure by the time I hit hiring mins, I'll have 20 years for airline flying. It might just be the regionals and if so, that's fine. I received bad advice about my eyesight when I was in college (before the Internet existed), so my info. was limited. So I will hopefully make the jump in a few years; hopefully I will pick up some students his spring and summer.
 
Op here. I seldom travel for my IT career but when I do I hate going to the airport, finding a parking space, get on the shuttle bus, pass through security. Then I shuffle through all the people. Eat poorly, get a rental car, and finally get to a hotel. You airline pilots do this everyday? I think that would just kill the passion of flying.
My dad got to fly to Dominican Republic, spend the night in a wonderful resort, eat great food, enjoy beautiful weather, and was back the next day. Sounds like a terrible life to me. He worked 4 days in January and 3 days this month. His job sucks.
 
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My dad got to fly to Dominican Republic, spend the night in a wonderful resort, eat great food, enjoy beautiful weather, and was back the next day. Sounds like a terrible life to me. He worked 4 days in January and 3 days this month. His job sucks.


It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
 
My dad got to fly to Dominican Republic, spend the night in a wonderful resort, eat great food, enjoy beautiful weather, and was back the next day.

Oh yeah? Well I just spent 30 hours in Detroit! Tell your old man to top THAT!

:D
 
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