Would you leave your Job

I've been thinking of leaving my job for flying( been teaching for 10 years now) but just can't justify spending another 25 to 30 grand to get the ratings and then work for 20 an hour for 2-3 years just to get to the regionals for another low paying job. If the regionals had a training program that included free( or under 10,000) training and started at around 55,000 than I'd strongly consider it. But as for now, I'm just going to slowly add ratings during the summers and continue to enjoy flying as a hobby.
 
CC268 said:
I am actually seriously considering leaving engineering to become a pilot - it won't be an immediate decision, but something I am seriously going to consider over the next year.
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I'm meeting a classmate at SFO today who left a successful engineering career at age 52 last year to fly for the regionals. One year ago today we met as we started ground school for the CRJ. We're both having a ball.
 
Rex Kramer said:
My upcoming locale for the next couple days, taken from the 118th floor:



And fwiw, I've spent quite a bit of time doing 4 day trips where I got to overnight in FNT, GRR, LAN, and whatever the Zoo's identifier is... all on the same trip!
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fun....I like Chinese. They have Gen Tzou there right? :D
 
I have been seriously considering doing exactly that for a little over a year now.

I have my ATP and a fair amount of multi-engine and turbine time, so I am confident that I would be attractive to the regional airlines. However, it would have to be the right opportunity that would allow me to minimize the impact on my family.

My situation is a bit different, in that I own my business, so that provides me with a bit more flexibility. However, I would have to deal with a greatly reduced quality of life, at least in the short run.

I will continue to monitor the industry and talk to as many people as I can to see if it makes any sense for me, but I really think I would love the experience.

Abram Finkelstein,
N48KY
 
LDJones said:
I'm meeting a classmate at SFO today who left a successful engineering career at age 52 last year to fly for the regionals. One year ago today we met as we started ground school for the CRJ. We're both having a ball.
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Wowzers! That is pretty cool - seems a bit late but maybe not!

I am only 22 so I am thinking I am going to stay with engineering and pay for as much of my training as possible to avoid any debt before I make the decision to jump ship.
 
SoonerAviator said:
You pull into the station, pick up a few hundred PAX, then talk to dispatch and head off to the destination. rinse and repeat. I don't think the analogy is that far off at all. Now, that doesn't mean an airline pilot is no different than a bus driver, because the risk/responsibility as well as the level of training and skill are worlds apart. It's difficult to paint such a large portion of aviation with such a wide brush, but it's not without its merit.
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You're right, that is such a huge generalization, it has absolutely no merit.

If an airline pilot is a "glorified bus driver" what is the pilot who flies their friend or coworker somewhere for half the cost of gas? A glorified rickshaw driver? Hardly.

Here's what I see. We in aviation walk a tightrope when it comes to our interaction with the non-flying public. We want to promote aviation in such a way to encourage others to join our "club." We tell them that "anyone can be a pilot," or "flying a plane is just like driving a car," or "airline pilots are just glorified bus drivers." But yet, on the other hand, those aren't exactly true. There is skill involved. Not everyone can be a pilot. It isn't like driving a car. There is much more involved to it than that, as we all know.

Whether it's a newly minted PP taking their friends for a one hour flight to a good airport lunch spot and having to deal with a challenging, gusty crosswind at the destination, or it's a pilot in her Bonanza flying cross country in the clag and having to make strategic decisions regarding freezing levels, icing accumulation, and mins for the approach at the destination, or it's the pilots flying JFK to Hong Kong and flying though multiple weather systems, talking to foreign controllers, adapting to international procedures, and having to land a 500,000 pound airplane in a typhoon after flying 15 hours, there is a special something about those of us who have decided to take up flying. Whether it's just for fun, or as a profession. I think we cheapen it by making those simplistic associations.
 
How most Private Pilots see themselves:

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How most Private Pilots see Airline Pilots:

ralf%20kramden_zps0sykndvi.jpg
 
LDJones said:
I'm meeting a classmate at SFO today who left a successful engineering career at age 52 last year to fly for the regionals. One year ago today we met as we started ground school for the CRJ. We're both having a ball.
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Sorry I missed you while you were at SFO!

I think it's great that you and your buddy decided to switch careers and follow your dreams, but I note that you both had successful previous careers and probably have a next egg to carry you through the leaner times.

My attitude about work, no matter what it is, is that there is a reason that they pay you. If I need to work, I would rather do what I do than something else, but I wouldn't do it for free, or even much less. But that is just the way I'm wired. I have no problem with people having other attitudes or other desires.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
And of course there is the fear that turning it into a job would remove all the fun.
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Only if you let it. There is a world of difference between airline flying and personal flying. I'd say over half the guys I fly with (including myself) are still involved in GA. They own airplanes, go visit family, take the grandkids for fun $100 hamburger flights, etc. Most of the professional pilots I work with love aviation and still enjoy all aspects of it.

Checkout_my_Six said:
Ok.....how are you suited for beeper attire?....and limo gigs? Same difference. :goofy:
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Totally different. Part 121 is scheduled (except for the percentage of the pilots on reserve). You know your schedule at least a month in advance, and it rarely changes (and when it does, they pay you for the inconvenience).

LDJones said:
In base. Commuting sucks...really bad.
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It depends. Obviously, living in base is great, but commuting isn't a lifestyle killer. It depends on what you value. If your family has planted deep roots where you live, it may be better for you to commute than uproot the whole family. My first airline, I lived in base. It was nice. After my furlough, and getting hired with my second (current) airline, I've commuted the entire time. The family is living where we like, the kids didn't have to change schools, and it only cause me a bit of inconvenience every once in a while, but it definitely didn't suck.

Just for a snapshot of what a Part 121 schedule typically is, I looked at our bidpack for March. March for us is 5 weeks long, 35 days in that month.

The average days off for FOs is 21. The average hours for pay is 95.

My particular schedule has me with two trips. The first is a 9 day trip that has me flying to Seoul, SK (21 hour layover) then a first class commercial deadhead to Guangzhou, CN (40 hour layover). Operate Guangzhou to Cologne, GE (45 hour layover), then a first class deadhead on Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong (38 hour layover), then operate Hong Kong back to my domicile.

The next trip is a 5 day trip. Fly to Cambridge, UK (24 hour layover). Deadhead to Cologne, GE (36 hour layover), then fly Cologne to Paris, sit in a hotel there for about 6 hours, then fly to Frankfurt, GE (layover for 22 hours), then fly back to base.

That's 14 days of work. 100 hours of pay. 60 hours of block time.

I realize that it's not for everyone. I get that not everyone would enjoy the job. But for me, it's great, and I couldn't imagine going to work in an office to sit in front of a computer monitor M-F 9 hours a day. I did that for 4 years during my furlough. Glad I don't have to do that anymore.
 
What airline is that with Sluggo63?

9 days is a long time for some people but 21 days off is pretty awesome.
 
evapilotaz said:
What does it mean "living in Base"
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Airlines have pilot "domiciles" or "bases." That's where you are assigned to fly from. If you live in base, you drive your car to the airport, and go to work.

If you live "away from base," you are a commuter. You will have to get yourself to base (usually by jumpseating on an airliner) in order to start your trip. It does add a layer of complexity/stress at times, but many pilots commute and live where they want to live and fly from somewhere else.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Obviously, living in base is great, but commuting isn't a lifestyle killer. It depends on what you value. If your family has planted deep roots where you live, it may be better for you to commute than uproot the whole family. The family is living where we like, the kids didn't have to change schools, and it only cause me a bit of inconvenience every once in a while, but it definitely didn't suck.
.
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I commuted for my entire 24 years. I was a military brat growing up, always changing schools and moving. I went to 3 different HSs, worse being my senior year when I had to go to the rival school and caught hell when we played my old school! :yesnod:

Allowing my kids to finish school with their friends was a big deal for me and worth it. As you said it didn't suck at all.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Only if you let it. There is a world of difference between airline flying and personal flying. I'd say over half the guys I fly with (including myself) are still involved in GA. They own airplanes, go visit family, take the grandkids for fun $100 hamburger flights, etc. Most of the professional pilots I work with love aviation and still enjoy all aspects of it.

Totally different. Part 121 is scheduled (except for the percentage of the pilots on reserve). You know your schedule at least a month in advance, and it rarely changes (and when it does, they pay you for the inconvenience).

It depends. Obviously, living in base is great, but commuting isn't a lifestyle killer. It depends on what you value. If your family has planted deep roots where you live, it may be better for you to commute than uproot the whole family. My first airline, I lived in base. It was nice. After my furlough, and getting hired with my second (current) airline, I've commuted the entire time. The family is living where we like, the kids didn't have to change schools, and it only cause me a bit of inconvenience every once in a while, but it definitely didn't suck.

Just for a snapshot of what a Part 121 schedule typically is, I looked at our bidpack for March. March for us is 5 weeks long, 35 days in that month.

The average days off for FOs is 21. The average hours for pay is 95.

My particular schedule has me with two trips. The first is a 9 day trip that has me flying to Seoul, SK (21 hour layover) then a first class commercial deadhead to Guangzhou, CN (40 hour layover). Operate Guangzhou to Cologne, GE (45 hour layover), then a first class deadhead on Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong (38 hour layover), then operate Hong Kong back to my domicile.

The next trip is a 5 day trip. Fly to Cambridge, UK (24 hour layover). Deadhead to Cologne, GE (36 hour layover), then fly Cologne to Paris, sit in a hotel there for about 6 hours, then fly to Frankfurt, GE (layover for 22 hours), then fly back to base.

That's 14 days of work. 100 hours of pay. 60 hours of block time.

I realize that it's not for everyone. I get that not everyone would enjoy the job. But for me, it's great, and I couldn't imagine going to work in an office to sit in front of a computer monitor M-F 9 hours a day. I did that for 4 years during my furlough. Glad I don't have to do that anymore.
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That sounds brutal to me, but, like you said, not for everyone. If I'm at work, I'd much rather actually be working, versus sitting in the back riding around. Nothing agrivates me more than inefficient trips that end up with multiple deadheads in them. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to fly a CRJ for life, but staying domestic is certainly right up my alley. We get our schedules around the 18th of the month, so we don't quite have a schedule that far out, but it's better than not knowing when they will call you. The biggest change for me is knowing they can only call me 14 hours a day, even on reserve, versus 24/7 like a previous gig was.
 
Mike5250 said:
What airline is that with Sluggo63?

9 days is a long time for some people but 21 days off is pretty awesome.
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It's FedEx. Nine days is a long time, but doable depending of your family situation. Up until recently I commuted up to Anchorage, and while I was based up there I would tend to do 13-14 day trips. It's a long stretch, but then you'd have a solid two weeks off. I would try to work it so I would do a 14 day trip at the beginning of one month, and a 14 day trip at the end of the next month, giving me a solid month off in between. It's like vacation without using vacation.
KSCessnaDriver said:
That sounds brutal to me, but, like you said, not for everyone. If I'm at work, I'd much rather actually be working, versus sitting in the back riding around. Nothing agrivates me more than inefficient trips that end up with multiple deadheads in them.
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Like I said, it depends. I bet if you posted your schedule, I'd think that was brutal. Not bad or worse, but for me... brutal. I've flown domestically, and four legs a day, up and down, fighting the weather, deicing every leg. That's work. But that is yet another thing I hear from my buddies at other airlines (especially Southwest). They like to work at work and have "more" time off. The thing is, I have the same amount of time away from home as they do. They may fly three 4-day trips, I may fly one 12 day trip. Potato/potato (sort of... if you can handle the long stretch away). And for us, deadheading doesn't mean the trip is inefficient, that's just system form. The first trip I mentioned above (the one with the multiple deadheads) is a Relief Pilot trip for me. I'm the third (maybe fourth) guy on the crew there for crew rest purposes on long legs. I'll RFO from CAN to CGN, but then the crew that I RFOd for is going to fly some legs that don't need relief pilots. The company needs me back in Asia to RFO for a crew going back stateside. So they buy me a ticket on Cathay (First Class) back to get me in position for where I'm needed. And trust me, FC on Cathay from DUS-HKG is not like 8C on an E170 from EWR to OKC.

But, like you pointed out, it's not for everyone. I'm glad I work at a place that allows us to have options in the type of flying we do. If you want domestic, you can do it. If you want international, you can do that, too. If you like adventure and want to live overseas in one of our foreign domiciles, that's available. Options are always good, and I'm glad we have them.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
If I'm at work, I'd much rather actually be working, versus sitting in the back riding around. Nothing agrivates me more than inefficient trips that end up with multiple deadheads in them.
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Are you not getting paid for the DH? It doesn't matter whether I'm in the front or back since I'm getting paid either way. And if it's the end of a brutal trip, sometimes sitting First Class on the go home leg is a nice thing. :)
 
I hated DHs. 100% pay for them too. Never got a First Class seat either. Planes are so full and having to lug around your bag and flight kit (changing since I left w/ iPads etc) and finding overhead space to stow a pain. Much rather fly the flight than DH. But that's me. ;):D
 
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mscard88 said:
I hated DHs. 100% pay for them too. Never got a First Class seat either. Planes are so full and having to lug around your bag and flight kit (changing sense I left w/ iPads etc) and finding overhead space to stow a pain. Much rather fly the flight than DH. But that's me. ;):D
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Haha - touché! Different strokes. Like you said, I'm not entitled to first class if there's no room, but it's nice when there is. As far as luggage, my airline's gate agents are pretty good about letting us down early to stow our stuff. On the flip side, if I'm working the flight I'll always do a gate walk to check for jumpseaters anyway, and if I see any deadheaders I'll tell the agents to let them down early. Gotta look out for each other in this biz! :)
 
Yes I usually could talk the gate agent into letting down early, so that was nice. I would do the same if I saw JS or DH crews.
 
mscard88 said:
I hated DHs. 100% pay for them too. Never got a First Class seat either. Planes are so full and having to lug around your bag and flight kit (changing sense I left w/ iPads etc) and finding overhead space to stow a pain. Much rather fly the flight than DH. But that's me. ;):D
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We get paid for them too. Contractually, if it's over 2.5 hours internationally, the company has to buy us a First Class seat (actually, new contract, lie-flat will suffice for FC). The company spends a lot of money each month on deadhead tickets, because that's the cost of doing business. Also, we get to keep the FF miles, and most guys who have been flying internationally with us have some sort of Premier status with one or more carriers. I've taken my wife to Europe several times using the miles I've accrued while "working."
 
We just recently got 100% DH pay at my place of employment. I suppose it makes it better, but riding around in the back row of a CRJ2 isn't the greatest thing in the world. At least they are generally under a 1 hour flight.

That's the great thing about flying 121, is there are enough different carriers that you are able to find out what you want to do, and stick with it.
 
If I could pull in at least $75k by year 3 and $100k by year 5 I'd consider it.

I'm getting too old to go backwards in pay for very long.
 
EdFred said:
If I could pull in at least $75k by year 3 and $100k by year 5 I'd consider it.
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You'd be over those numbers by years 1 and 2, respectively. Year 2 substantially higher. Also, the 401(k) direct contribution is nice. For example my company puts 16% into my 401(k) whether I contribute or not. That's a big help too.

That said, you'd have to be okay with the lifestyle, and not everyone is.
 
Well, the problem is, who gets an FO job at a major year one? Gotta start out in the minor leagues first, and how long is one down there?
 
EdFred said:
Well, the problem is, who gets an FO job at a major year one? Gotta start out in the minor leagues first, and how long is one down there?
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Ah - I thought you were just replying to the OP, where the hypothetical was jumping right to a major. But yeah, you'll have to spend a number of years making quite a bit less first. You might be able to avoid the regional thing and find a good corporate/fractional gig that'll get you close to the numbers you stated, and then make the jump from there. But going to a major without any 121 experience isn't an easy thing to do. It can be done - my good friend did it - but he's kind of the exception to the rule.
 
Well I work ramp side at an FBO.....so yes without hesitation lol
 
DavidWhite said:
Where is that? I want to go!
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That looks like the Ozone bar on top of the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Hong Kong. Cool place, leave your email address and get a free glass of Champagne (and end up in their weekly newsletter which you can't unsubscribe to!)
 
mscard88 said:
I hated DHs. 100% pay for them too. Never got a First Class seat either. Planes are so full and having to lug around your bag and flight kit (changing sense I left w/ iPads etc) and finding overhead space to stow a pain. Much rather fly the flight than DH. But that's me. ;):D
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Count me in the "Hate DH" camp! The pointy end is so much more enjoyable. I do get paid the same as if I was flying it, but still hate it. First Class wouldn't make it much better since I'm usually in uniform and can't enjoy the free drinks!
 
mtuomi said:
That looks like the Ozone bar on top of the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Hong Kong. Cool place, leave your email address and get a free glass of Champagne (and end up in their weekly newsletter which you can't unsubscribe to!)
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yep that's exactly it. Great view of hong kong there!
 
Guess who has a DH on a CRJ 200 this morning? *That'll* teach me to say that I don't mind deadheading! :)
 
evapilotaz said:
What is the average retirement for a Airline Pilot? Would you consider leaving your current job for a airline pilot job for early retirement?
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65 is the age one has to retire at. Average, I don't know. Rumors abound about extending retirement to 67.
 
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