Will Lower MoGas Price translate to Avgas?

Ronnie Godfrey

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Ronnie Godfrey
In my area, gas is approaching $2.00 a gallon, but Avgas at the homedrome is $4.30, up from $3.50 a few months ago. Do you guys think we will see lower Avgas again soon? I’ve decided that if it goes back to $3.50 a gallon I am going to knock out my instrument as fast as possible to take advantage of cheap fuel.
 
Probably not by much. Avgas is pretty inelastic.
 
Yes, if oil prices remain lower for about 7-9 months you will see 100LL prices lowering. The problem, especially regionally in winter, is airports will not be buying new loads of fuel and lowering the price on their existing stock is a loss. It is a very slow process down and a very quick process up.

Also keep in mind there were regional shortages of 100LL last summer.
 
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Avgas is not refined and blended very often compare to autogas, so you won't see as rapid response to the crude oil market as you will for automotive gasoline.
 
I keep poking at my dad to remind him to watch/buy another load of mogas for his hangar.
 
In Alaska the price trends of car gas and avgas have no relationship. A few years ago gas and diesel went up sharply while avgas went down, to the point that diesel prices were higher than avgas. Then it flipped the other way.
 
Best around here is $3.99 at Bridgeport. Home airport is $4.40.

So, $0.41 per gallon 26nm away? I'll put that in the "if I'm there anyway I guess I'll buy some" column.

On the other hand... The on field price where the club plane(s) are kept: $6.40. I rarely paid THAT convenience premium.
 
Avgas is not refined and blended very often compare to autogas, so you won't see as rapid response to the crude oil market as you will for automotive gasoline.
I read that they make avgas twice a year when they are switching between winter and summer gasoline blends so the portion of the avgas price attributed to the cost of oil only adjusts then.
 
Avgas is not refined and blended very often compare to autogas, so you won't see as rapid response to the crude oil market as you will for automotive gasoline.

Avgas is blended regularly in summer, infrequently in winter... but that’s immaterial. The wholesale price leaving the refinery adjusts daily... about $1 per gallon more than premium unleaded Mogas.

As others noted, the stiction is in the FBO’s unwillingness to take a loss on higher price avgas in their tank... some order only every couple months, or even less frequently in winter.

Paul, used to blend avgas guy
 
I read that they make avgas twice a year when they are switching between winter and summer gasoline blends so the portion of the avgas price attributed to the cost of oil only adjusts then.

That is inaccurate. Paul
 
What product do they refine in place of Avgas in winter?

The refinery where I spent my last 13 years working is the sole avgas refiner on the west coast.

The various plants in that refinery generate 13 different gasoline components. Of those, four are suitable for avgas, as limited by sulfur content, olefins content, high distillation end point, etc.

Avgas has dedicated tankage... avgas requires internally coated tanks, whereas mogas is blended/stored in raw steel tanks. Mogas is blended dynamically, with the formulation computer corrected during the blend by online property analyzers. Avgas is blended by a fixed recipe in a batch method (first one component is added to the tank, then the second, then the third...)

So it's not really a matter of making a different product instead. It's what one does with the gasoline components generated by the 50-some processing plants in the refinery. Continuous mogas blending happens six days a week (the seventh day, Wednesday, is analyzer day, when the continuous blending analyzers are serviced, calibrated, etc.)

If one isn't avgas blending, the continuous mogas blending goes on unabated... it's just that the computer algorithm is allowed to use ALL of the components, without a reservation of the small amounts used for avgas blending (avgas less than 10% of total gasoline production in this refinery.)

Does that make sense? Paul
 
The refinery where I spent my last 13 years working is the sole avgas refiner on the west coast.

The various plants in that refinery generate 13 different gasoline components. Of those, four are suitable for avgas, as limited by sulfur content, olefins content, high distillation end point, etc.

Avgas has dedicated tankage... avgas requires internally coated tanks, whereas mogas is blended/stored in raw steel tanks. Mogas is blended dynamically, with the formulation computer corrected during the blend by online property analyzers. Avgas is blended by a fixed recipe in a batch method (first one component is added to the tank, then the second, then the third...)

So it's not really a matter of making a different product instead. It's what one does with the gasoline components generated by the 50-some processing plants in the refinery. Continuous mogas blending happens six days a week (the seventh day, Wednesday, is analyzer day, when the continuous blending analyzers are serviced, calibrated, etc.)

If one isn't avgas blending, the continuous mogas blending goes on unabated... it's just that the computer algorithm is allowed to use ALL of the components, without a reservation of the small amounts used for avgas blending (avgas less than 10% of total gasoline production in this refinery.)

Does that make sense? Paul

Yes it does.
 
The refinery where I spent my last 13 years working is the sole avgas refiner on the west coast.

The various plants in that refinery generate 13 different gasoline components. Of those, four are suitable for avgas, as limited by sulfur content, olefins content, high distillation end point, etc.

Avgas has dedicated tankage... avgas requires internally coated tanks, whereas mogas is blended/stored in raw steel tanks. Mogas is blended dynamically, with the formulation computer corrected during the blend by online property analyzers. Avgas is blended by a fixed recipe in a batch method (first one component is added to the tank, then the second, then the third...)

So it's not really a matter of making a different product instead. It's what one does with the gasoline components generated by the 50-some processing plants in the refinery. Continuous mogas blending happens six days a week (the seventh day, Wednesday, is analyzer day, when the continuous blending analyzers are serviced, calibrated, etc.)

If one isn't avgas blending, the continuous mogas blending goes on unabated... it's just that the computer algorithm is allowed to use ALL of the components, without a reservation of the small amounts used for avgas blending (avgas less than 10% of total gasoline production in this refinery.)

Does that make sense? Paul
Just curious what your role was. My dad designed refineries for 35 years.
 
The refinery where I spent my last 13 years working is the sole avgas refiner on the west coast.

The various plants in that refinery generate 13 different gasoline components. Of those, four are suitable for avgas, as limited by sulfur content, olefins content, high distillation end point, etc.

Avgas has dedicated tankage... avgas requires internally coated tanks, whereas mogas is blended/stored in raw steel tanks. Mogas is blended dynamically, with the formulation computer corrected during the blend by online property analyzers. Avgas is blended by a fixed recipe in a batch method (first one component is added to the tank, then the second, then the third...)

So it's not really a matter of making a different product instead. It's what one does with the gasoline components generated by the 50-some processing plants in the refinery. Continuous mogas blending happens six days a week (the seventh day, Wednesday, is analyzer day, when the continuous blending analyzers are serviced, calibrated, etc.)

If one isn't avgas blending, the continuous mogas blending goes on unabated... it's just that the computer algorithm is allowed to use ALL of the components, without a reservation of the small amounts used for avgas blending (avgas less than 10% of total gasoline production in this refinery.)

Does that make sense? Paul

Is it correct that the tetraethyllead (TEL) needed for 100LL avgas is now produced by only one supplier in the UK?
 
The refinery where I spent my last 13 years working is the sole avgas refiner on the west coast.

So, I guess that makes you think you're some kind of expert on the subject, huh?

Well, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
 
So, I guess that makes you think you're some kind of expert on the subject, huh?

Well, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

What do you mean? An African or European swallow?
 
So, I guess that makes you think you're some kind of expert on the subject, huh?

Well, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Velocity and airspeed are mutually contradictory... velocity is a vector, airspeed is a scalar. Do you know which one you mean?

Paul
 
Is it correct that the tetraethyllead (TEL) needed for 100LL avgas is now produced by only one supplier in the UK?

In the western world, that’s true. Russia and China both have some TEL capability, but there are quality issues.

Paul
 
A sobering article about 100LL and the efforts to replace it with unleaded avgas.

https://airfactsjournal.com/2018/11/the-unleaded-fuel-disaster-what-it-means-for-pilots/

There’s a lot wrong in that summation...

Right now, there isn’t much of a plan to transition to unleaded avgas, at least not in the way most pilots think about it.

Well, the FAA doesn't have much of a plan, but the wise among us were never pinning our hopes on the FAA figuring out what science is, and how to pursue it. Better for the public purse that they've stopped trying.

The best hope, until recently, was the FAA’s Piston Aviation Fuels Initiative (PAFI), a government-sponsored program to evaluate different fuels in a consistent and rigorous way. The goal was to avoid competing standards from companies more interested in market share than technical compatibility.

That was never the goal. The FAA was quite clear that they were not trying to pick a winner, or eliminate competing standards.

PAFI’s ... moving along steadily (if excruciatingly slowly) until this summer, when the FAA stopped all testing. The press releases were vague, but essentially the problem was that none of the fuels were meeting the hoped-for standard.

PAFI might have been moving along steadily, but it was going the wrong direction; the FAA wasn't allowing the participants to do real science, applying what they learned to improving the formulations. So they were doomed to fail.

Even [if] GAMI and Swift make it to your local FBO, the distribution will be fractured and the decisions for pilots will be confusing.

That's not likely true. Both fuels plan fleet-wide acceptance by the FAA, and the eventual Swift fuel and GAMI fuel are likely to converge on intermixable options. Both Swift and GAMI have publicized information on pricing; and if licensing of blending creates MORE competition in the avgas marketplace, competitive pricing could mitigate any increase in blendstock prices.

electric airplanes are the future, at least for ... small general aviation airplanes.

That's far from clear from the physics; even light-weight batteries are heavy, and long recharging times make long cross countries problematic.

The depressing conclusion from the PAFI debacle is that there simply isn’t a drop-in replacement for 100LL, a fuel that could be used in a wide variety of airplanes without major changes to ground infrastructure or airplane performance.

That "conclusion" is not supported by the facts.

One possibility is that airplane engines will have to run on unleaded auto gas in the near future. That would solve a lot of problems with distribution and infrastructure – it’s widely available in the US

Not so fast. Most of the mogas supply contains ethanol, which is not compatible with aircraft for a number of reasons. And the pervasive effect of mandatory ethanol octane on the gasoline marketplace has made the higher-octane blendstocks unavailable.

Would you run your Cessna 310 at 50% power instead of 75% power? That’s the type of tradeoff pilots may have to confront.

There are very serious certification issues if you can't make 100% power at takeoff, and addressing those on an aircraft model-by-model basis makes that approach very, very expensive.

Cirrus introduced the SR22T model in 2010 with a lower compression turbocharged engine. It is widely assumed that one reason for the company’s design choice is to accommodate unleaded fuel if that becomes necessary.

Not sure who you believe "widely assumes" that, but they're unlikely to be engineers. The design choice was made because Continental and Cirrus were both acquired by Chinese concerns, that wanted to use their owned technologies; and Continental didn't have a more-efficient turbonormalized solution to offer. Lowering the compression ratio but delivering the same horsepower doesn't reduce the octane requirement, which doesn't have a lot to do in any case with whether the fuel is leaded or unleaded. Fuzzy thinking.

Electronic ignition, the standard in cars for many years, would be a great way to increase the number of high compression engines that could run on unleaded avgas

How? None of the existing systems retard timing to allow use of lower octane fuels.

the EPA could easily declare leaded fuel a danger to public health... That would start the clock ticking and all the carefully planned processes might go up in smoke.

Just how do you anticipate that starts the clock ticking? The EPA has been enjoined by no less than the Supreme Court to leave avgas regulation to the FAA, since the Bush administration didn't want to get involved in mediating between their two executive department agencies, so set up the courts as the bad guys.
 
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