Why don't GA aircraft have winglets?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Morgan3820, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Line Up and Wait

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    If they are good enough for a 787, why not my Piper? Just curious.
     
  2. RudyP

    RudyP Line Up and Wait

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    Too slow for them to make much of a difference on anything less than a jet.

    That said, my cirrus has quasi winglets.
    IMG_6088.JPG
     
  3. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There are winglets in GA, just not as common. Winglets are a fairly common mod for Barons for example.

    They provide some performance improvement, but didn't seem like enough to make it worth it for me.

    For most GA folks, you just don't fly enough per year to see a return on investment in fuel savings. It's a very different story in the airline world.
     
  4. ejensen

    ejensen Pattern Altitude

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    My Jabiru has winglets. According the the factory they got them to lower stall speed down to the Light Sport.
     
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  5. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

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    Diamonds have them
     
  6. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    Since business jets are GA aircraft and since many of them have winglets, the question is flawed.
     
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  7. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And even in the airlines they'd just go with a longer wing on new aircraft if they weren't constrained by gate sizes. At least that was true until they started messing with tip vortices...

    That said, when I put new wing tips on the 'kota to get landing lights out there the mould included upturned tips. They changed the float in ground affect and maybe a little better climb rate.
     
  8. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  9. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

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    The 777 has/had a folding wingtip option to extend the span 20-25ft, but nobody ever ordered it. We'll see how it works out on the 777x
     
  10. Lance F

    Lance F Pattern Altitude

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    They block the view. :)
     

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  11. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Line Up and Wait

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    I stand corrected....
     
  12. TRocket

    TRocket Line Up and Wait

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    In the grand scheme, winglets are pretty new, most pipers you see on the ramp were built decades before they became common. And as far as new pipers, well, compared to a 787, the speed isn't enough to matter.
     
  13. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Some do.

    On the PC12 I've flown ones with the small /45 ones and also the early model yuuuge ones, didn't notice much of a difference between the two.
     
  14. wilkersk

    wilkersk Line Up and Wait

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  15. GLMS_NC

    GLMS_NC Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Tip tanks??
     
  16. Dav8or

    Dav8or En-Route

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    Winglets are kind of like T tails were in the '70s. Pretty soon they will be sprouting everywhere in piston GA just because they look cool and modern...
     
  17. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

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    There are many STC wing tips you can install that emulate winglets in a small form. Even the newer Cessnas have "drooping" wing tips.
    Anything that reduces wingtip vortices helps with fuel economy.
     
  18. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    [​IMG]

    Neat. Spiroid winglets
     
  19. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Winglets that actually do something add a lot of weight. Take the Falcon 900 for example, its nearly 250 additional pounds and around a 1000 man hours in sheet metal work.
     
  20. jkaduk

    jkaduk Cleared for Takeoff

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    Saw them on a Bonanza once. I have picture somewhere. Personally I thought they looked kind of silly.
     
  21. TFulwider

    TFulwider Pre-Flight

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  22. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

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    That, and though they can reduce induced drag enough to provide a net drag reduction in some flight regimes, they also add profile and skin drag which adds up to a net drag increase in other flight regimes.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  23. ElPaso Pilot

    ElPaso Pilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    Designing effective winglets is not an easy task. I would hazard a guess that most of the small GA winglets are more of a cosmetic and marketing feature than a functional one.

    See -- we can make our plane look like a big jet, too!
     
  24. donjohnston

    donjohnston Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I got 'em. :D
     
  25. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    IMG_0713.JPG I got 'em too! Of course they fulfill more than just a winglet role.
     
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  26. FloridaPilot

    FloridaPilot Pattern Altitude

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  27. NJP_MAN

    NJP_MAN Pattern Altitude

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    The M2 added swooplets to the CJ1 and they called them bling-lets. Cessna claimed they were appearance only but the aircraft beats the book in performance. I'm guessing if they claimed a performance increase,they would have to do extensive testing for the type certificate.
     
  28. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    I've flown various Cessna models with and without drooped tips, and have never been able to discern any difference in handling or performance.

    Here's what Cessna's former Manager of Flight Test & Aerodynamics, Bill Thompson, said about those drooped wingtips:

    "We found only a marginal benefit, even with very large drooped wing tips. To be effective, they had to extend about two feet below the wing, and this, of course, was unacceptable in blocked visibility and general appearance. As we abandoned the effort, some of our sales pilots suggested the adoption of very slightly drooped wing tips as a styling feature. [...] Although there were no measurable aerodynamic benefits, it didn't take long for sales people across the country to dream up some wild claims, and drooped wing tips have become a part of our aviation culture."
     
  29. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route PoA Supporter

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    In general, is icing a problem for winglets?

    I don't see any boots or heated leading edge. Not just the ones in this photo, but any of them. And they protrude out there.
     
  30. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    They are considered critical surfaces on most aircraft and they will be heated.
     
  31. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    When I was working at the FBO we had a few based Falcon 50/900/2000s. The tailplane (according to some of the mechanics) was deemed by Dassault as not critical for icing and do not have heat of any kind. One of the pilots said he landed with inches of ice back there and it handled just fine. He didn't notice until after landing.

    Example: [​IMG]

    Wings have it, tail does not. I think it is true across most Falcons.
     
  32. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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  33. Rockymountain

    Rockymountain Pre-Flight

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    The new Piper M600 has them. Might do something, since with the same engine and similar cruise power settings it is as fast or faster than the Piper Meridian/M500 even though it weighs 1000 lbs more.

    2017-10-15_20-35-50.jpg
     
  34. JustinD

    JustinD Line Up and Wait

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    I flew the CRJ for several years and all variants (200/700/900) do not have the horizontal stab heated. When I first went through training on it I couldn’t believe it, but in all the time I flew the jet never saw ice build up on it after a flight.

    Also for the person who asked the CRJ winglets are not heated, they were too thin to accumulate much ice, and if they had ice building up on them it was a good indicator there was ice building elsewhere on the airplane. Some planes have heated winglets others don’t, depends how it handles it and how it’s certified

    Back to the original subject, winglets just look cool. I want them on my 182, and even though it would serve no purpose I want my cowl on landing to slide back like a jet engine reverse thrust
     
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  35. ElPaso Pilot

    ElPaso Pilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    Looking at those winglets, I can’t see them as being anything more than cosmetic.

    Other changes would appear to be driving the efficiency increase. From Piper’s website:

    The new clean-sheet wing is at the heart of the changes to the Piper M600 providing slick aerodynamics that help you go farther, faster without leaving anything or anyone behind.​
     
  36. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I think for most light piston aircraft and even light turboprops, winglets don’t really make a significant performance difference. You start seeing the benefits once you put them on jets.