Which tailwheel to buy?

Tools said:
No no no, WE need to raise HIS budget. That’s how this works.

Uh, what bank do we call?
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LA/OC = Los Angeles Orange County? He will need modern avionics to fly there or be really restricted.
Now a hanger is pretty much mandatory for fabric plane and Los Angeles area hangers are spendy if anything like S Florida.
 
Well if we're raising his budget, he should get a P-40. Or something else that has an engine in it with a "V" and a 12 or greater number in the designation. Maybe a Mosquito?
 
Useful load and CG are important for the part of the mission giving endorsements. Get the actual weight and balance for any plane you are considering and check different loadings.
 
aterry1067 said:
Not trying to argue (and not really related to the topic of Tailwheel planes) but the RV-12s wings are not foldable either; they are removable. The only reason to point that out is that foldable wings can usually be folded by one person, while removing the wings of the RV-12 absolutely requires 2 people. That may be something to consider if one is likely to be flying solo most of the time.
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your are correct
 
iamtheari said:
Useful load and CG are important for the part of the mission giving endorsements. Get the actual weight and balance for any plane you are considering and check different loadings.
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…and make sure the mechanic did the math correctly. When I bought my 150, it couldn’t be loaded in CG per the paperwork, but the mechanic’s error was pretty obvious, and we only had to level it up and verify where the wheels were to fix it.
 
Not many around but you might also want to include a Piper J4 in your search. Prewar, side-by-side, stick, slow, very roomy inside, lite sport eligible, and can carry weight like any long-winged Piper. Look for an 85hp with an electric system. Sold mine in 2022 for $24K.:(
 
As noted 150 conversions with swept tails give up a little crosswind capability. 140A is a better choice.

Also many of the c-85s have been stroked and IMHO the increased torque allows the regular prop to behave as if it were a climb prop with no loss of cruise airspeed. Prefer a stroked C-85 to the O-200.

Next most favorite would be an early light 180. But they are way more expensive to buy and fuel.
 
EAA Chapter 1 is having their "Low & Slow fly-in this Sept 25-27. You could talk to pilots that have planes that are of interest to you, and get their opinions. Could also ask if you can sit in their plane.
 
An all-metal Luscombe 8E or 8F would be a good choice at the price point. They do require good taildragger technique but they are more responsive/fun to fly than the C120/140s and generally a little less expensive. Stick controls are also my preference. All 8Es and 8Fs are all metal.

I bought a rag wing 8A 25 years ago and learned how to fly in it, minus electrical system, in southern California. It was a good experience that taught me a lot about stick and rudder flying. An 8E or 8F has more power, better performance than the C120/140 and an electrical system - a good radio is essential but otherwise modern avionics are not required to fly in the OPs area outside of Class B. However e.g. ADSB IN traffic is very helpful.
 
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I'm 6' and 180. A PA-11 for my mission but my legs didn't fit in the front. I like Citabrias, but useful load in older ones was real tight if I wanted a friend and a good amount of fuel ( my airport didn't have gas). Ended up going PA12, but is probably more than you want to spend. I liked the way Champs flew and would have been happy with one of those as well.
 
ColinD said:
Gotta find an early one without the back window. They resemble a baby Skywagon.
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If it's going to be slow anyway, might as well provide the illusion of a spacious interior.

Too bad that one's not a Lowe conversion.
 
OP Mentioned 170s being out of the price range, but you can generally find 1948 170s (some have had metal wing conversions) for under $50k. There is one on T-A-P up in Oregon right now that is sub-$50k

a '48 170 was my first airplane and first taildragger. Great airplane for learning tailwheel, fun VFR flying and you can put a couple of passengers or a bunch of camping gear in the back if you want.
 
My advise to anyone buying a plane, a boat or even a car is to buy one they think will be easy to sell. The purchase price you will likely get back (if you’re a good steward of machine). You never get back the money you squander on hangar/tiedown, insurance, fuel, oil, oil filters, tires brakes, etc,. Since you’re familiar with Citabrias, and by extension Champs, that’s what you should look for. Find one with a good engine and fabric, a 7ECA.
 
Tusayan said:
An all-metal Luscombe 8E or 8F would be a good choice at the price point. They do require good taildragger technique but they are more responsive/fun to fly than the C120/140s and generally a little less expensive. Stick controls are also my preference. All 8Es and 8Fs are all metal.

I bought a rag wing 8A 25 years ago and learned how to fly in it, minus electrical system, in southern California. It was a good experience that taught me a lot about stick and rudder flying. An 8E or 8F has more power, better performance than the C120/140 and an electrical system - a good radio is essential but otherwise modern avionics are not required to fly in the OPs area outside of Class B. However e.g. ADSB IN traffic is very helpful.
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I agree. If I was looking for a plane with the listed requirements, I would be looking at Luscombes. There's a nice 8F on Barnstormers with an O-290 for $45K, there's a 8D for $39,500. I don't like metalized wings on a 120/140, but on a Luscombe they came from the factory that way. Not just the 8E and 8F, a lot of the 8As did as well. Just look for the single strut and you'll know it's metal.

My friend is selling his for $43K, it has an O-200 on it. He has someone looking at it, but it might fall through. Air-to-Air Luscombe
 
j1b3h0 said:
My advise to anyone buying a plane, a boat or even a car is to buy one they think will be easy to sell.
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I’ll offer another POV. This hobby is expensive. Just buy what you’d enjoy, and forget about making money / breaking even on the re sell.

There are limits of course. If you’re financing, you need the value to hold. You shouldn't finance a hobby anyway.

If you buy something with zero resell, either you’re vastly overpaying and/or there’s a good reason no one else wants this, it might not be safe or reliably flyable, etc.
 
WDD said:
I’ll offer another POV. This hobby is expensive. Just buy what you’d enjoy, and forget about making money / breaking even on the re sell.
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Life is short. Two of my favorite vehicles were the only two I bought knowing I would take a pretty good hit when I sold them. My C7 Corvette and my Meyer Little Toot. Both were a blast and worth it!
 
j1b3h0 said:
Since you’re familiar with Citabrias, and by extension Champs, that’s what you should look for. Find one with a good engine and fabric, a 7ECA.
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Or just take a lesson or two in other aircraft to increase exposure to more than a Champ.
 
odie451 said:
EAA Chapter 1 is having their "Low & Slow fly-in this Sept 25-27. You could talk to pilots that have planes that are of interest to you, and get their opinions. Could also ask if you can sit in their plane.
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Thanks for this.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I agree. If I was looking for a plane with the listed requirements, I would be looking at Luscombes. There's a nice 8F on Barnstormers with an O-290 for $45K, there's a 8D for $39,500. I don't like metalized wings on a 120/140, but on a Luscombe they came from the factory that way. Not just the 8E and 8F, a lot of the 8As did as well. Just look for the single strut and you'll know it's metal.

My friend is selling his for $43K, it has an O-200 on it. He has someone looking at it, but it might fall through. Air-to-Air Luscombe
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What’s parts availability like for Luscombes? The reason I don't have a Luscombe on my list is that they seem to be much rarer than the other options.
 
Perf-Init said:
What’s parts availability like for Luscombes? The reason I don't have a Luscombe on my list is that they seem to be much rarer than the other options.
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Google-fu is your fren' - it kills me how smart people have somehow forgotten how to do a little basic research.

Luscombe Aircraft Parts | Luscombe Airplane Parts for Sale

Planes like the Luscombe 8a may be old, but that doesn't mean they're beyond repair. Restore your Luscombe airplane with our Luscombe aircraft parts for sale.
www.univair.com www.univair.com
 
All the mechanical/propulsion parts on a Luscombe with the exception of the brakes are available in the same way they are for the copy cat two seat Cessnas - because they are mostly the same parts. Airframe parts are available from e.g. Univair and many can be made from sheet metal by a skilled A&P. Unlike the Cessnas not much on a Luscombe was highly ‘tooled up’, pressed etc, for example compare the construction of the doors. The labor saving industrialization of the Cessnas was more advanced, but today this might be considered a disadvantage if you want to make a new component from e.g. sheet metal and welded square tubing like the Luscombe doors.

In addition, they made 6,000 Luscombe 8s and used, serviceable parts are pretty widely available. In the 60s-80s (roughly) Luscombes had very low value and a lot of them got taken apart after an incident… only about a third of those built are still flying. However this means a lot of parts are floating around. There is a fairly active network between Luscombe owners, and parts move around.

A friend of mine has been a serial Luscombe restorer for about 30 years, I have no idea how many he’s ‘built’, maybe six or more. My ex-8A was his first, highly polished, completed in the 90s and best of show at the national Luscombe fly-in one year. A metal winged 8E was later bought for something under $5K and dragged home from where it had sat on the ramp at a desert airport for so long the windshield was brown and opaque, the tires were flat for years and hard as a rock, the instrument panel looked like it had been sand blasted, the engine was frozen and the firewall was literally packed with hardened dirt to where it was hard to distinguish components. It was also made into a show winner. They are quite restorable planes :-)

One hard thing to get on a Luscombe is wing struts for a pre-war fabric covered wing. The post war fabric wing struts are easier to source. None of that affects the all metal wings or their struts that went into production in March of 1946 (there are three different types of wing and struts). It’s amazing how fast things changed while most of the 6,000 Luscombes were built within a four year period. Imagine that today.

Years ago the center of Luscombe enthusiasm in the LA/OC area was Corona Airport. I think those days and people are mostly gone but you might still find a Luscombe or two there, and some remnants of that era there. Maybe somebody else will know.
 
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Tusayan said:
A friend of mine has been a serial Luscombe restorer for about 30 years,
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Thread drift warning! ;)

Did your friend ever know or was he aware of Ed Canaday in MN? I’m thinking when he passed away he had somewhere around 15 Luscombes’ worth of parts stacked up in his barn that got auctioned off.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Thread drift warning! ;)

Did your friend ever know or was he aware of Ed Canaday in MN? I’m thinking when he passed away he had somewhere around 15 Luscombes’ worth of parts stacked up in his barn that got auctioned off.
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No, I’ve not previously heard of Ed. His story does show how and why so many Luscombe parts are ‘out there’ 80 years after the planes were built.
 
Tusayan said:
No, I’ve not previously heard of Ed. His story does show how and why so many Luscombe parts are ‘out there’ 80 years after the planes were built.
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There was a stick-control Chief that was Grand Champion at Oshkosh a few years back that came out of Ed’s barn as well.
 
Perf-Init said:
What’s parts availability like for Luscombes? The reason I don't have a Luscombe on my list is that they seem to be much rarer than the other options.
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A friend of mine started with a Luscombe as his first t/w plane, so I considered an 8E for a while. In retrospect, it would have been fine, but at the time, I got hung up on the idea of heel brakes and the landing gear. The 140A is all metal and roomier inside and has toe brakes. Just sayin' ;)
 
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I own a Luscombe 8E with an O-200. It’s fun to fly, and performs well with the engine (,a Lycon overhaul that made 118hp on the dyno) but it’s eighty years old. Didn’t the OP say he was a big guy? The Luscombe will be a squeeze for him. C-140s are built much better, but fly like a truck compared to a Luscombe. You might consider a PA-16 Clipper. Really fun to fly with the short wings and big ailerons, hard to find as they were only made in 1949. A Stinson L-5 is a nice flying airplane, and suitable for a tall person.
 
GeorgeC said:
A friend of mine started with a Luscombe as his first t/w plane, so I considered an 8E for a while. In retrospect, it would have been fine, but at the time, I got hung up on the idea of heel brakes and the landing gear. The 140A is all metal and roomier inside and has toe brakes. Just sayin' ;)
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I only ground looped a 140 twice as a student before I figured out it was related to toe brakes. Just saying’. ;)
 
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