Where to find experimentals

Discussion in 'Home Builders and Sport Pilots' started by 2Airtime2, Nov 11, 2015.

  1. 2Airtime2

    2Airtime2 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    2Airtime2
    I think I'm a yr away, and probably 2, from buying a plane. I like to window shop. I've been all over Barnstormers and Trade A Plane. Right now I'm thinking experimental so I can do my own upgrades and repairs.

    What are some other places to look for used planes? Somewhere with lots of experimentals.

    Thanks
    Mike
     
  2. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,130
    Location:
    DXO124008.6
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    Barnstormers seemed to have the most of the types I was looking at.
     
  3. FORANE

    FORANE Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
  4. LandSickness

    LandSickness Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,023
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    fri tale
    Don't underestimate Ebay, Craigslist and your local FBO bulletin board. Heck, I've taken a stroll around the hangars and have happened upon someone selling their plane simply by word of mouth. Some are selling only because you inquire. Serious value can be found right under your nose. You'd better do your due diligence and know as much as you can about your type though and the type clubs are great for that. Good luck!
     
  5. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    10,546
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    If you have a certain aircraft in mind ,go to the type web site. Put up a post ,wanted to buy.
     
  6. 2Airtime2

    2Airtime2 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    2Airtime2

    I would like to be able to carry 2 passengers. So 3 people total (500lbs) plus fuel. A fun (responsive), easy to fly plane for a beginner. Shortish grass field performance might be nice.

    Does that type of plane exist?

    Please list them.

    Thanks
     
  7. catmandu

    catmandu Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    Location:
    Maryland's Eastern Shore
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Catmandu
    Sounds like a Bearhawk to me.
     
  8. JHW

    JHW En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    Peoria, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jeff Wright
    Me too
     
  9. JoeSelch

    JoeSelch Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    Detroit
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JoeSelch
    Agree on the Bearhawk.

    If not-so-short field performance will work, then RV-10.

    Not many E-AB options with more than 2 seats.
     
  10. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Dumfries, VA (suburb of DC)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Auburntsts
    The Bearhawk is a good choice. Another option is a Murphy Moose or perhaps even a Compair 6 or 7. The problem with any of these models is there's just not a lot of completed examples out there so the available inventory at any given time is going to be thin.

    Personally based on your stated criteria I'd stick to standard certified aircraft and spend some cultivating a relationship with an A&P who will over-the-shoulder you on most of the maintenance. You'd have to get an A&P to do the condition inspection on any E-AB you brought so getting into owner assisted maintenance for a standard certificated airframe will make the maintenance cost pretty close to being a wash.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  11. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    25,296
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
  12. Datadriver

    Datadriver Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    560
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Datadriver
    Find pilots in your area on social media, and meet up with them. There are some 2nd hand projects out there. I picked up a Velocity project like that.
     
  13. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,579
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pete Zaitcev
    Another option may be Zenith CH-801. Unlike the Bearhawk it's a tricycle airplane. But again, completed examples are very rare. Expensive, too.
     
  14. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    25,296
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Attend the monthly meeting of your local chapter of the EAA
     
  15. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,975
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    Cozy III if you can find one
     
  16. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,366
    Location:
    Port Aransas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jay Honeck
    If you're going to buy a pre-built experimental plane, hire an expert to help you find the right one.

    Experimentals are NOT like certified planes. With certified aircraft, you can rest assured that they were built to the same, often mediocre-but-adequate standards. Maintenance will vary, but the baseline starting point is assured.

    With Homebuilts, you get everything from Michelangelo (perfection) to Picasso (random), and to the untrained eye they look the same. You need to have a guy in your corner who has built eight or ten of them, who can tell at a glance whether it's stock or modified, and whether the parts and workmanship are adequate.

    I hired an expert out of Minnesota, Tom Berge, to help us find our RV-8. He is a one-stop shop, from helping you find the right plane through transition training. We have been ecstatic with our plane, and urge anyone wading into the murky waters of used RVs to contact Tom. PM me if you need his contact info, or just Google "RV Transition"
     
  17. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    22,936
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    I tend to discourage first time buyers from purchasing experimental aircraft. There is NOTHING whatsoever wrong with the vast majority of experimentals. However, purchasing an aircraft involves quite a few issues. Purchasing an experimental involves all those and quite a few more.

    The OPs reasoning is disingenuous at best. Most certificated aircraft will meet his mission of carrying multiple passengers. Moreover, one can do quite a bit of maintenance on a certificated aircraft so long as one has a compliant mechanic. And a purchased experimental will still require an inspection by a mechanic at annual.
     
  18. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,579
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pete Zaitcev
    Glad that OP can see beyond the typical scaremongering, such as spread by steingar above. That said, vast majority of EX-AB planes are 2-seaters, and 4-seaters are relatively rare. Ironically, the older the airframe is, the easier it is to find mods for it, because back in the olden days FAA was generous with field approvals and STCs. The things people do to their Navions, most RV fliers would not dare. If I wanted a 4-seater with some back country chops for a reasonable amount of money, I would seriously look at an STC-ed 175. Of course, 300 grand buy you a used King Katmai 182, but something tells me we aren't looking at this kind of budget in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  19. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    22,936
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    If a simple truth is scaremongering then I plead guilty.
     
  20. Jimmy cooper

    Jimmy cooper En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Baltimore md.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim cooper
    Piper pacer would be a nice starter aircraft. They show up from time to time in very nice , rebuilt condition. Or a tripacer if you need a training wheel in the front. I would not worry about carrying anyone but your self for at least 200 hours. Getting a ppl is only the beginning. Be sure you can also afford a hangar. Leaving a nice aircraft outside is a fools decision. It's also true that many, many experimentals are out there , in much better shape than a twenty, thirty year old certified. Many exp. builders border on genius and have built stunners. All depends on the builder, his experience, etc. a lot can be gleaned by seeing his shop, checking his reputation, etc. many of these builders build to build as they enjoy this more than flying.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  21. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
    My first plane at 250 hours was/is a Long EZ. Now have 1000+ hours. Love it. Easier and safer in many ways than most certified aircraft. No stall spin worries, little DA worries. Rarely use rudders other than in the pattern. Autopilot for $800 rather than $7-10,000. Glass panel for $3000 versus $30,000 etc. etc. etc....installed all myself. Overhauled the engine myself. What's not to like? See the graphic below...!

    If you have an interest in canards PM me and I'll hook you up with a guy that keep good track of most of them. Certainly NOT grass strip type planes. Fast and efficient.
    No matter what you fancy you MUST have an experienced builder/flyer of that type do a prebuy inspection. Preferably someone that has built more than one or is an acknowledged expert in that type. Well worth it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
  22. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,774
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Controller.com --> Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft
     
  23. Snaproll

    Snaproll Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    SOCAL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Snaproll
    Best window shopping arena is to attend the EAA Oshkosh Fly-in. You will see every type and configuration available along with hundreds of historic experimental aircraft. Also visit the museum. Best of luck. VR.. Don Stits
     
  24. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,366
    Location:
    Port Aransas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jay Honeck
    True, but...

    Unless you're looking for RVs, which have their own corner of the world, be prepared to walk many miles.
     
  25. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    13,543
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    Bear hawk

    [​IMG]

    Zenith 801, can't really go wrong here, minus a little lacking in cruise

    [​IMG]

    Moose

    [​IMG]

    Cyclone (Cessna 185 clone), great option!

    [​IMG]

    Also some warbirds which qualify under experimental which might be worth a look.

    [​IMG]


    I'd be careful with the compairs, no personal experience, but every person I've never spoken to, or see post online, about them had zero good things to say.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  26. N3368K

    N3368K Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    652
    Location:
    Collierville, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JimR
    And you've owned how many airplanes? Of that number, how many were Exp-AB? What is your personal experience to support the bull you're slingin? I've owned more than one of each certified and E-AB. Like any airplane, doing your homework and working with knowledgeable "type" smart folks makes the difference. Anyone can do any maintenance or modification they desire on an E-AB. They are extremely limited on Standard AW stuff. The Condition Inspection for E-AB requires someone with only an A&P whereas the certified requires an A&P/IA.
     
  27. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    Tom has one soon to be for sale....:D
     
  28. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    13,543
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    I wouldn't have a issue recommending a experimental for a first plane, it's just like anything else and having a good relationship with a nice old school APIA and being able to turn a wrench is nearly a deciding factor before you even start looking.
     
  29. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,975
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    @James331 I'm on the fence about the @steingar opinion.

    For me, I started with co-ownership to learn about owning/maintaining airplanes. Then I bought my RV. I'm still a co-owner of the other two so I have seating and mission options galore.

    Would it have been different if I had gone straight from renting certificated to owning experimental? Maybe yes, maybe no.

    something about mileage varying fits here
     
  30. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
    [​IMG]
    Tom-D said:

    Once again.. no one is perfect, not even you.

    Truly enjoy the blocking function on this forum. Never see this crap unless someone copies it!
     
  31. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
    Each plane is different. You still have to pay ridiculously obnoxious prices for parts on a certified plane that can take you right out of the market in a hurry. And not all owners are competent tinkerers. If you're not - stay away from experimental. It's a hands on type of aircraft in most cases and we love it!
     
  32. Jimmy cooper

    Jimmy cooper En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Baltimore md.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim cooper
    I know only two people who fly experimentals. They are both airline captains. One owns an RV4 ,bright red, ( just a beautiful thing) the other a rans s7 courrier. ( another great flying aircraft well designed.) these two plus otherairline pilots, as a rule, don't know a wrench from a base fiddle and don't care to. They have others bother about that end of it. There are terrible mechanics currently working on certified (as I've had the misfortune to come across ,) as there building and maintaining experimental. personally , thru expensive lessons that almost cost me my life I've learned to be very careful about who touches anything certified that I fly.( Same with doctors. ) With rans, you can call the factory and they will build any of their models for you and arrange delivery. Or you can assist in building it at a designated dealer if you must. .or simply build it yerownsef. Plus the 912 ROTAX is bullet proof if maintained correctly. If you don't have the money to correctly maintain and hangar a nice aircraft your probably better off buying a Honda four door.
     
  33. Snaproll

    Snaproll Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    SOCAL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Snaproll
    I have spent over half a century around experimental aircraft, flown many, designed and built a few, and helped many complete their projects. Most experimentals are sound, safe, and a pleasure to both fly and maintain. The key is to determine what you want, how it fits your mission, determining which aircraft meets your personal requirements for room and access, and perform thorough research as to integrity of the airframe. Look to acquiring an aircraft well within your pilot skills, avoid the "tricky" handling aircraft with high stall speeds and poor spin recovery, and look for value in what you plan to accomplish. If unsure, stick to a part 23 aircraft and call it a day.... VR.. Don Stits
     
    JoseCuervo likes this.
  34. BellyUpFish

    BellyUpFish Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,153
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Backtothesand
    He said do his own mx work, not pay someone.
     
  35. Stewartb

    Stewartb En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,755
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    E-AB wasn't intended to be a sales category. If you want an E-AB? Build one.
     
  36. PilotRPI

    PilotRPI Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    MA - 1B9
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PilotRPI
    What about Glasair Sportsman? I've seen a couple that looked really really nice. Not sure how much room there is in the back for passengers.
     
  37. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    22,936
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
     
  38. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,130
    Location:
    DXO124008.6
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    Why? Was the intent that aircraft should be buried in the same grave as the original builder? Put the body in it and launch it in flames for a Viking funeral?

    E-AB is not a "manufacturing" category, but where is the issue with selling one?
     
    unsafervguy and BellyUpFish like this.
  39. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Messages:
    814
    Location:
    San Diego
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scott
    Some good sites:

    tradeaplane.com
    barnstormers.com
    controller.com
    aso.com

    Also local airport terminal and FBOs have listings. I am actually looking into an experimental due to lower cost for a newer airframe. I like the Vans RV series a lot.
     
    Ravioli likes this.