They are declaring that their design conforms. I assume there has to be some objective quality evidence that they must provide to show that the design conforms. There IS a certification process, it just does not involve the FAA.
who do they have to show it to?
I was talking about a new 172 reclassified/sold as a Sport Aircraft 2.0 post July 2026.
“reclassified?”
What I mean is: there is nothing stopping Cessna from from killing the old part 23 172 and releasing a "172.5" that conforms to ASTM and MOSAIC post July 2026. I think you'll see Cessna, Cirrus, Van's, and other "legacy" manufacturers do this. It just makes sense for the deregulatory reasons when it comes to the airframe and maintenance alone.
Yah, that's what I meant...
Assuming it actually meets the ASTM requirements, there are plenty of things that would stop them. Expense, liability,…
The 172 is a CAR3 aircraft.
Of course it would, and you could add bureaucratic inertia to your list.
No, but the 172 would not meet all ASTM standards so it would require a lot of changes outside the normal process at Cessna. I doubt any of the legacy OEMs would convert to LSA 2.0. Now Tecnam, Pipistrel, Flight Concepts, etc sure. No legacy monocoque structured aircraft could ever compete with a composite aircraft on the production side from a cost standpoint.
Bottom line is there are way more reasons not to recertify an existing design than there are to do it.
Given that they currently produce airplanes that can be flown under the new rules, why would they? The only reason anyone has given is that it lowers the bar for maintenance technician training. Yet another reason one could add to the list of “why nots.”
Agree to disagree. Time will tell of course.
GAMA reported ~1800 SEP/MEP new aircraft sales in 2024. I would venture a guess that 50-80% of those could be SLSA 2.0 aircraft instead eventually. That's a pretty big market.
I’d expect the marketing hype to start up any time if we’re going to see hardware next summer.
True. But when adjusted for sales of SEL aircraft to the US it comes to 1258. MEL aircraft are not applicable to 2.0. Then if you want to further adjust for US produced only that number goes to 924.
A big market compared to what? Nothing wrong to venture guesses, but without context its hard compare things.
I'm curious what the cost will look like. Will it put pressure on the 55K Cherokee and the 125K Shyhawk?
Wrong. Light Sport 2.0 aircraft can be multi engine. And turbine. And electric. And whatever else we haven't thought of next.
On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't expect marketing 11 months before you can deliver a product.
Why not? Worked for the cybertruck.
Good point. I bought one so it worked for me.
Interesting. I knew of the turbine and electric, but must have intermixed the limitations for a sport pilot. Thought all was single engine. But still doesn't change the numbers above given MEL is a small sample base.
Given the requirements of the LSA ASTM standards and Part 22 doesn't become fully effective until next year, I think you're looking to at least 3 years before any movement. And the fact MOSAIC has been in discussion since 2013 and there has been no media about any new designs with its final issuance, I think shows where the potential market is. The only info you hear about are the listing of existing aircraft you can now fly as a sport pilot vs any new LSA aircraft certifications. So perhaps it will longer than 3 years. I think a more hopeful route will be if current EASA LSA OEMs want to sent their aircraft over to cover that gap.
Mosaic wasn't really a serious thing until a couple years ago and even then people were pretty skeptical - then it went and exceeded expectations as far as stall speed and other factors.
So at what price range do you think these new aircraft will be offered at?
Assuming something comparable to a 172, as that largely meets the requirements, I would expect them to cost slightly more than a new 172, as the design and tooling for a 172 is probably paid for already.
Given the current 1.0 LSA upper shelf basic models start at $150K, my guess the development costs to increase/conform the performance abilities to the 2.0 levels would start the asking at least at $250k or better in the big picture. Be interesting to see what type of insurance structure will be developed for the 2.0 version as well.
You would get less of an argument (or enforcement action) if you declared you were the most Hansome person in the World. You know how pilots are.
