What would make you consider tiedowns over renting a hangar?

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Corin

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Corin
kyleb said:
Back in the day when airplanes were less expensive, storing them outdoors was the normal thing to do. Now that they are hyper-expensive, people don't wanna leave 'em outside, so hangar space is at a premium. Where do you think all those airplanes (lots more back then) were stored in the mid 80's? On the ramp...
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I saw this and thought it was worthy of its own thread.

-Is there a specific price of aircraft? Or age of an aircraft?
-Would you be more likely to store your aircraft outside in coastal California, over say Texas?
-Does it depend on hangar rent? What is the breakeven point between increased hangar rent costs, and extra weather induced maintenance costs?


My opinion: It feels stupid to put my spam can in a hangar, when it has been stored outside by its previous owners since the 70s. Especially because the paintjob is old, and does not need preserving. Of course, I am fortunate to live somewhere with very moderate weather.
 
Availability. Hangars are useful for more than just sheltering the airplane, i.e. storing cleaning supplies, spare oil, tools, as well as other "essentials". Thus the only reason I'd go tiedown is lack of a hangar, unless it was crazy expensive for the hangar.
 
I've owned three airplanes. All in the Upper Midwest with challenging winters. Fortunately, I have always had hangars, and at reasonable prices. I don't think I would ever owned one if I did not have access to a hangar. In Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin, the highest hangar rent I ever paid was $145 a month. And I also had other things there, such as my motorcycle, utility trailer, and even a car for a while. Not to mention a refrigerator, a TV, a desk, couch, etc.
 
If a hangar is not available or I cannot afford it, I would go for a tiedown. Nothing to do with the plane value.
 
farmrjohn said:
Availability. Hangars are useful for more than just sheltering the airplane, i.e. storing cleaning supplies, spare oil, tools, as well as other "essentials". Thus the only reason I'd go tiedown is lack of a hangar, unless it was crazy expensive for the hangar.
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This is my take too. I bought the hangar so i could modify it to my tastes, and apparently fill it with dubious treasures and half-baked projects. It only seems to have a plane parked there half of the time.

If repainting an airplane was 5K I think a lot fewer people would rent hangars. Iunno. Maybe not. Windows and avionics and interior get beat on too in the sun. But it's the 30K paint job I think about when I'm parked away.
 
Corin said:
I saw this and thought it was worthy of its own thread.

-Is there a specific price of aircraft? Or age of an aircraft?
-Would you be more likely to store your aircraft outside in coastal California, over say Texas?
-Does it depend on hangar rent? What is the breakeven point between increased hangar rent costs, and extra weather induced maintenance costs?


My opinion: It feels stupid to put my spam can in a hangar, when it has been stored outside by its previous owners since the 70s. Especially because the paintjob is old, and does not need preserving. Of course, I am fortunate to live somewhere with very moderate weather.
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If the hangar was poorly constructed (e.g., at KBED some of the hangars had the ground improperly graded so that there was a slight dip in front of the door - perfectly placed to collect water for ice - what a pita)

if the hangar had a manual door that would require two people to open/close it

but the number one reason would be cost. Circa 2006 KBED hangars went from $555/month to over $650/month. Only a few years earlier it was less than $350/month. and remember that's more than 20 years ago.

The cost of paint never entered the tradeoff thinking
 
What would make you consider tiedowns over renting a hangar?
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The facts that hangars are either unobtainium or $500/mo have a lot to do with it.
 
I just commented over in that original thread
that tiedowns at least here the last time I looked, was relatively expensive, and have a limited availbality too.

How much do ya'll see outdoor uncovered tiedowns go for on a long term or monthly basis?...not talking about overnight transient spots....

I struggle with the idea of putting an old classic outside (such as an Aeronca Champ...fabric covered wooden spar)
Yeah I know they can take it... outside in AK for example.... but I would struggle with that. If I thought I could get a hanger within a handfull of months yeah I'd be willing to tie it out for the wait, but with no hangar in sight for years I'd struggle with that.

Some average condition C-152 or something, yeah, I'd not have so much concern outside

I've often wondered why the airports around here don't make more tiedown spots available
and shade hangers too!
instead, they are tearing out all the small T-Hangers in favor of large and expensive hangers
 
I have so much more in my hangar besides the plane. Turns out it's the cheapest storage anywhere around here. In 2018 when I first rented the hangar there was 3 of them to chose from. Now there is a long waiting list for hangars.
Yes I have been known to hang out at the hangar with friends.
 
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Cost - everything has a price elasticity to it, everything has a limit.

My home airport has airport owned hangars @ $600/month, long waiting list.
I could have bought a new developer built T hangar for $185k, plug monthly HOA fees, land rental fees, utilities, plus insurance. And then you factor in appreciation for the hangar that is on a land lease with an expiration date/no guarantee for renewal, and factor in loss of return for that money.

It's the market rate, so all good - nothing against the developers.

Thus, I'm paying $60 / month for a reserved tie down, and paying for it to be cleaned a few times a year and ceramic coat re apply annually.

I'm half way kicking around the idea of putting together a deal with a developer to build covered tie downs (or shade hangars, whatever you want to call them) to get 90% of the benefit of a real hangar at a fraction of the cost. But.. yeah, I'm never going to do that.
 
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Gary Ward said:
Turns out it's the cheapest storage anywhere around here.
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It's the deal you've been given, so smart for you to take it. BUT it's also one of the reasons there are shortages in many places. People using hangars for storage vs planes. If it's below market rates of regular storage, then tax payers are subsidizing storage, and it's intended purpose (Aviation support) isn't being met.

Not the fault of those renting it. I'd say it's the airport management of the hangars.
 
farmrjohn said:
Hangars are useful for more than just sheltering the airplane, i.e. storing cleaning supplies, spare oil, tools, as well as other "essentials".
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I'm reminded of the boat my dad had all those years ago that was kept at a marina. What a royal pain in the neck it was in a way. Every time we'd go to fix something or clean it or whatever, there would be some tool or some part that we left at home so we couldn't finish the job.... or the water or electric on the dock would be off and out of our control, etc...
 
I got on the list at my home drome in 2022 at #99, now I'm #9 of 154. Maybe only another 5 years to go?
 
WDD said:
It's the deal you've been given, so smart for you to take it. BUT it's also one of the reasons there are shortages in many places. People using hangars for storage vs planes. If it's below market rates of regular storage, then tax payers are subsidizing storage, and it's intended purpose (Aviation support) isn't being met.

Not the fault of those renting it. I'd say it's the airport management of the hangars.
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They require a plane to be in a rented hangar. None are used just for general storage that I know of. There are a few hangars that have experimental in them that haven't been flown in years. How do you feel about that?
One hangar neighbor brought his aircraft back one night late on a trailer with the wings off. I knew something was up as his hangar sat open for 6-8 hrs and no sign of him. I was going to close his hangar door when I left at around midnight when he showed up with a trailer and partial aircraft. That was 3-4 years ago and I haven't seen him fly since.
 
Gary Ward said:
here are a few hangars that have experimental in them that haven't been flown in years. How do you feel about that?
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Having a non flying airplane, or parts of a plane just to rent the storage space defeats the purpose of the government providing aviation facilities. Kind of like the local town building a parking lot for the city park and people store their RV and boats on it.
 
When I first got my Navion, hangars were absolutely unobtainable at the airport I was based. I didn't even have a dedicated tie-down, just rights to leave it "somewhere" on the ramp.
After a couple of years of that, I went slightly further away where I could get either a hangar or a tiedown at an airport where my mechanic was located and they had the cheapest fuel around (I was stopping there on the way home to get fuel anyhow). But still the tie-downs were much less than the hangar.

After getting new paint on the plane, I finally relented and got a hangar and realized I should have done so earlier. Didn't have to worry about keeping birds out of /off of the plane, worrying about frost, etc... With the Navion, being able to board under cover if it's raining is a plus. Of course, now I don't even have to go outside to walk from my bedroom to the airplane (hangar is integral to the house).
 
Owner-assisted maintenance and annuals offset some of the hangar costs. Storing stuff that won't fit in the house offsets a couple hundred more a month.
Having electricity and an enclosed space allows preheating overnight for cold weather flying.
Birds not trying to make a nest in the cowling or any other nook they could get in, and not roosting on the VOR antenna, $#!tting all over the horizontal stab in the process offsets more of the cost.
 
honestly, if I lived out west where it's really dry and i either had really good covers or a shade hangar, i'd consider it.
in the last 10 years of ownership my hangar cost is 2x new paint. still, i've had awesome times at the hangar and it does make convenient storage for airplane and uhm other stuff
 
WDD said:
I'm half way kicking around the idea of putting together a deal with a developer to build covered tie downs (or shade hangars, whatever you want to call them) to get 90% of the benefit of a real hangar at a fraction of the cost
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Whether it’s 90% of the benefit depends on your use case. It might be 90% of the environmental protection, but a proper hangar goes way beyond that. Having a place to work on the plane, and to store tools and spare parts securely matters a lot to me. Readily available electricity is a big help, too, making things like a compressor, fans, a small fridge, a coffee maker, extra lighting, etc., practical. Beyond that, it’s nice to have an area for flight planning, with an old laptop, a scanner, a few office supplies, etc. It’s also a place to store my car when we’re away on a trip with the plane.

A shade hangar wouldn’t do a third of what I get from my T-hangar.
 
WDD said:
Having a non flying airplane, or parts of a plane just to rent the storage space defeats the purpose of the government providing aviation facilities. Kind of like the local town building a parking lot for the city park and people store their RV and boats on it.
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Plus without buying any fuel the renter isn’t contributing to the airport fuel sales.
Probably should require all stored aircraft be currently in flying condition with recent annuals.
 
Here in Florida Cessna singles seem to fare better than most planes left outside.
They all suffer sitting outside.
Our current hangers I believe rent between $1200 to $1400 per month for the smallest ones.

Best option is to buy a house/hanger in a residential air park.
 
Half Fast said:
My engine OH took over 6 months. Would you have evicted me?
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If annual is current then I would consider the aircraft is in flying condition. Same as if a tire was removed.

An aircraft simply stored contributes nothing to the airport. Operations count toward airport funding I believe. A dead aircraft doesn’t count in operations.
 
bonefishpete said:
If annual is current then I would consider the aircraft is in flying condition. Same as if a tire was removed.
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So current annual but not airworthy is acceptable? I wouldn't consider an airplane in the middle of an engine overhaul, field or otherwise, to be "in flying condition" but I'm also not interested in kicking that guy out (unless I'm on the wait list :cool: ). I'm also not going to be the guy checking on parts lead times to decide who gets the boot because they've been down too long.

My current hangar has no stipulations on airworthiness or state of annual, but in the past I've had leases that explicitly allowed airplanes under construction as long as the build was progressing, based on ad hoc inspections.

If you're trying to force hangar occupancy only by operating airplanes, try raising rates by some significant amount but offering fuel credit for an equivalent amount, redeemable only by the airplane on the lease.

Nauga,
hangar lucky
 
bonefishpete said:
If annual is current then I would consider the aircraft is in flying condition. Same as if a tire was removed.

An aircraft simply stored contributes nothing to the airport. Operations count toward airport funding I believe. A dead aircraft doesn’t count in operations.
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My annual expired about halfway through the OH.

Our airport has a policy for aircraft that are being repaired where they can ask you to demonstrate progress (invoices for parts, photos of work performed, etc.) but I've never known them to enforce it. We have an EAA chapter on the field with a fairly well-equipped shop, and some members have been building planes in their hangars for several years. I'm not aware of anyone being challenged, let alone evicted.

One guy I know owns two Bo's. It's taken him about three years to get the older one flying again, and the other one is still having work done. Nobody's tried to kick him out yet.

There is the usual requirement that a hangar must contain an aircraft, but if there's a plane in the hangar it's not typically an issue to store a boat or car or something in addition. The best I saw was the guy who hung a couple of PPCs from the hangar rafters and stored a car and a motorcyle.
 
All one has to do is visit enough airports and see the rotting aircraft to tied down to realize most people who opt tie down can’t afford the plane or don’t care what they own looks like crap.
 
Unavailability would be the only reason not to hangar. My first plane had to live outdoors until I could get a hangar. The paint suffered (it had already suffered plenty) and the avionics cooked. Same thing with my current plane. Once I moved them inside my avionics repair bills went to zero. I probably broke close to even, financially, and that doesn't count the lost time while avionics were being sent out and re-certified. Heat just kills electronics. Then there are the random lawn mower incidents...fortunately not my aircraft.
 
shrug, lot of places you just aren't getting a hangar, no matter how bad you want one. Know a guy with a diamond, just repainted the plane for half what i paid for a hangar in the same time. hell think adding in the overhaul they are finishing up, we're only about 10k different
 
I fly a fabric covered plane and I won't base it at a field where I can't put the plane in a hangar when it isn't flying. When I lived in Manassas, Virginia, the pilot population density was so great, I wound up basing my plane in West Virginia at a private airpark where I rented shared hangar space from a pilot/resident. That was a 90 minute drive each way from my home to the hangar - so spur of the moment flying was not an option. I now live on the west coast and I built my retirement home 3 miles from an airport where I was able to get a hangar. The hangar came first, the home's location was the second priority. If absolutely no hangars were available anywhere near me, I'd sell my plane and rent spam cans to scratch my flying itch. Fortunately, I don't have to do that! PXL_20251125_003307203.jpg
 
31 responses, and nobody has mentioned "hangers keep the zombies out" yet?
 
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Half Fast said:
Whether it’s 90% of the benefit depends on your use case. It might be 90% of the environmental protection, but a proper hangar goes way beyond that. Having a place to work on the plane, and to store tools and spare parts securely matters a lot to me. Readily available electricity is a big help, too, making things like a compressor, fans, a small fridge, a coffee maker, extra lighting, etc., practical. Beyond that, it’s nice to have an area for flight planning, with an old laptop, a scanner, a few office supplies, etc. It’s also a place to store my car when we’re away on a trip with the plane.

A shade hangar wouldn’t do a third of what I get from my T-hangar.
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Don't get me wrong - would love to have a hangar. It's just that my area, availability and cost are such that I'm deciding to stay tie down. Thus, IF I could get the sun and hail protection from a shade hangar/covered tie down at a fraction of the cost of a hangar, I - and a lot of other people - would jump at the chance. I'd hope that we could also get a 20 amp outlet to power up a pre heater, air compressor, etc.
 
WDD said:
Thus, IF I could get the sun and hail protection from a shade hangar/covered tie down at a fraction of the cost
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Bruce covers. They are amazing for what they cost. I know you can get tail covers, and I think wing covers are available, too.
 
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