What education is really necessary?

billypudenz

billypudenz

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I am really interested in becoming a pilot (more specifically a corporate pilot or charter pilot). However, there is a lot of talk between whether or not a bachelor's degree (with any major) is really needed to get a job once out of training. I know that there's a lot of good universities in the U.S. to receive flight training, but even without adding flight training costs to their tuition, it is outrageous. It wouldn't be that bad if any good universities were in my home state of Iowa (besides maybe Dubuque but they still want $35,000 just for annual tuition :eek: ). So, I looked at North Dakota because it was somewhat close. I then found out that they don't give a discounted tuition to only Iowa. Of course, all the other surrounding states get a discounted tuition except for Iowa. So, my state gets screwed over with $26,000 annual tuition.
All of this was when I was thinking about corporate aviation. Since I don't seem to be finding any good deals with these universities, I started thinking about becoming a charter pilot instead.

Anyway, now I'm starting rethink if I really need a bachelor's degree. I would much rather just take flight training from one of the airports in my state that offer training for many different ratings. I would just like to know what you all think about it. Is it really necessary to get a bachelor's degree, or should I go to a 2-year college that offers flight training, or get flight training from one of the airports around Iowa? I just feel so defeated.

Please let me know what you think! Thank you!
 
This is only my opinion but I think that companies will look at people on a case by case basis.

Upon graduating high school, I was admitted into Embry Riddle and Western Michigan University, but the prices were outrageous so I didn't go. Instead I obtained my bachelor's in computer science and have been working in that field while doing flight training on the side.

If I were you I would still get a useful degree in something just in case aviation doesn't work out for you, you need a backup plan that can put food on the table.
 
billypudenz said:
I am really interested in becoming a pilot (more specifically a corporate pilot or charter pilot). However, there is a lot of talk between whether or not a bachelor's degree (with any major) is really needed to get a job once out of training. I know that there's a lot of good universities in the U.S. to receive flight training, but even without adding flight training costs to their tuition, it is outrageous. It wouldn't be that bad if any good universities were in my home state of Iowa (besides maybe Dubuque but they still want $35,000 just for annual tuition :eek: ). So, I looked at North Dakota because it was somewhat close. I then found out that they don't give a discounted tuition to only Iowa. Of course, all the other surrounding states get a discounted tuition except for Iowa. So, my state gets screwed over with $26,000 annual tuition.
All of this was when I was thinking about corporate aviation. Since I don't seem to be finding any good deals with these universities, I started thinking about becoming a charter pilot instead.

Anyway, now I'm starting rethink if I really need a bachelor's degree. I would much rather just take flight training from one of the airports in my state that offer training for many different ratings. I would just like to know what you all think about it. Is it really necessary to get a bachelor's degree, or should I go to a 2-year college that offers flight training, or get flight training from one of the airports around Iowa? I just feel so defeated.

Please let me know what you think! Thank you!
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Corporate or private jet pilot you need to know the right person and have them like you. There are several people at any operation that can do it, the owner is best.;) Most serious flight departments are looking for a 4 year degree, Art History is a good one because you can have interesting conversations about something the boss is typically interested in, especially in the private sector. This can lead to better jobs with him. Airlines are fine with Art History as well. The regionals will take you with a GED, they could care less.
 
A four year degree will almost always give you a leg up. Aviation is no different.
 
You're always one medical away from unemployment. I'd want a good undergraduate degree in something likely to get me a job at some point.
 
I like the freedom that money provides way too much to pursue a career in aviation. :sigh:

Sad but true.
 
If you want to be something that requires an advanced degree such as Dr. Lawyer, CPA, Nurse, Teacher, etc. go to college. If not, skip it. If you want to be a pilot, spend the money on flight hours and experience. Don't pay for a degree.
 
As you will learn, the insurance companies rule the hiring world, not the FAA. The insurance carriers for ALL of the companies for which I flew as a corporate pilot required that I hold an ATP and a first-class medical. Things are a tad looser in the charter/freight dog world.

Bob Gardner
 
A degree will get your name above those that don't have a degree. I graduated a few weeks ago with a BA in Economics and got all my ratings even while taking a year off from flying. You can get it done. You don't have to go to ERAU, WMU, UND, etc to do your training.
 
Gsxrpilot said:
If you want to be something that requires an advanced degree such as Dr. Lawyer, CPA, Nurse, Teacher, etc. go to college. If not, skip it. If you want to be a pilot, spend the money on flight hours and experience. Don't pay for a degree.
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That.

I you're trying to fly for the airlines, they want a 4 year degree.

Don't go waste money on a aviation degree, sure as heck don't blow bucks on ERU.

Get your hours at a local flight school, utilize gliders, utilize safety pilot time.

As for the degree, if you're going some where that requires it (military or airline) ether get the degree as quickly and cheaply as you can online, or get a degree as a RN nurse.

Education is all about ROI and a BS in BS plus 25 cents doesn't even get you on the bus.

Being a low time pilot and RN nurse, you can set your schedule up to fly and RN part time, make enough money to have a OK QOL, those two professions go very well together.
 
Have you listened to the Aviation Careers Podcast? The host goes into these types of questions in great detail. He has been advising pilots on issues like this for years.

Have you looked into any aviation scholarships?



Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk
 
billypudenz said:
I am really interested in becoming a pilot (more specifically a corporate pilot or charter pilot). However, there is a lot of talk between whether or not a bachelor's degree (with any major) is really needed to get a job once out of training. I know that there's a lot of good universities in the U.S. to receive flight training, but even without adding flight training costs to their tuition, it is outrageous. It wouldn't be that bad if any good universities were in my home state of Iowa (besides maybe Dubuque but they still want $35,000 just for annual tuition :eek: ). So, I looked at North Dakota because it was somewhat close. I then found out that they don't give a discounted tuition to only Iowa. Of course, all the other surrounding states get a discounted tuition except for Iowa. So, my state gets screwed over with $26,000 annual tuition.
All of this was when I was thinking about corporate aviation. Since I don't seem to be finding any good deals with these universities, I started thinking about becoming a charter pilot instead.

Anyway, now I'm starting rethink if I really need a bachelor's degree. I would much rather just take flight training from one of the airports in my state that offer training for many different ratings. I would just like to know what you all think about it. Is it really necessary to get a bachelor's degree, or should I go to a 2-year college that offers flight training, or get flight training from one of the airports around Iowa? I just feel so defeated.

Please let me know what you think! Thank you!
Click to expand...


How old are you?
 
billypudenz said:
I am really interested in becoming a pilot (more specifically a corporate pilot or charter pilot). However, there is a lot of talk between whether or not a bachelor's degree (with any major) is really needed to get a job once out of training. I know that there's a lot of good universities in the U.S. to receive flight training, but even without adding flight training costs to their tuition, it is outrageous. It wouldn't be that bad if any good universities were in my home state of Iowa (besides maybe Dubuque but they still want $35,000 just for annual tuition :eek: ). So, I looked at North Dakota because it was somewhat close. I then found out that they don't give a discounted tuition to only Iowa. Of course, all the other surrounding states get a discounted tuition except for Iowa. So, my state gets screwed over with $26,000 annual tuition.
All of this was when I was thinking about corporate aviation. Since I don't seem to be finding any good deals with these universities, I started thinking about becoming a charter pilot instead.

Anyway, now I'm starting rethink if I really need a bachelor's degree. I would much rather just take flight training from one of the airports in my state that offer training for many different ratings. I would just like to know what you all think about it. Is it really necessary to get a bachelor's degree, or should I go to a 2-year college that offers flight training, or get flight training from one of the airports around Iowa? I just feel so defeated.

Please let me know what you think! Thank you!
Click to expand...

Ok I missed your charter pilot bit, as a pt135 pilot I can tell you if you're looking to become a charter pilot you don't need a degree, save your money.

Also you're not going to get a job as a charter pilot right out of flight school, charter is more like job number 3 at minimum after school.

First you'll probably be a instructor or fly skydivers, banner tow, etc.

Next maybe a turbine drop zone or something where you can get some multi turbine time, or flying pt91 for someone.

Now you're probably at pt135 IFR mins.


jordane93 said:
A degree will get your name above those that don't have a degree. I graduated a few weeks ago with a BA in Economics and got all my ratings even while taking a year off from flying. You can get it done. You don't have to go to ERAU, WMU, UND, etc to do your training.
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Who told you that?
A referral from a existing employee will help far more

Having a known good operator as your last employer will help
Being from the area will help

Experience in different conditions like mountain, AK, high altitude, backcountry, will help

Having your ATP will help

Being in the right place at the right time will help

If you meet all the mins, and they can check all the boxes, I've never heard of someone picking someone because they spent money on a degree. The hiring process will hire you because of your personality or how hey think you'll mesh way before they pick you because you got a degree.

Degrees are not what they used to be
 
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Undergrad tuition at Northern Iowa for residents is:
Undergraduate Tuition* $6,648
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Tuition at Eastern Iowa is $2100 for 15 credits per semester.


Schools in Iowa are cheap, you don't need to attend schools out of state.

Flight training, in the grand scheme of things, all will involve 7.2 gallons per hour of $5.17 fuel on a plane that has $80-ish dollars of fixed costs, no matter what state it takes to the sky, no matter what university or private mom/pop flight school owns it. And, CFI's all will want similar $$$ for sitting in the right seat for you.

Coupling flight training with a university is an odd marriage that doesn't save anyone money.

Go to school where you can afford and study what you like. You will never regret having a college degree.

Learn to fly where and when you can, build hours when you can.

If you combine flying and your work, great. If you can't, you still have a degree for the next 70 years of your life.
 
James331 said:
That.

I you're trying to fly for the airlines, they want a 4 year degree.

Don't go waste money on a aviation degree, sure as heck don't blow bucks on ERU.

Get your hours at a local flight school, utilize gliders, utilize safety pilot time.

As for the degree, if you're going some where that requires it (military or airline) ether get the degree as quickly and cheaply as you can online, or get a degree as a RN nurse.

Education is all about ROI and a BS in BS plus 25 cents doesn't even get you on the bus.

Being a low time pilot and RN nurse, you can set your schedule up to fly and RN part time, make enough money to have a OK QOL, those two professions go very well together.
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The other good thing about RN is it opens up the world to you. There is no better career field if you want to be able to pick up and move anywhere in the world. Nurses are given instant work visas and qualifications anywhere in the world, every country advertises for you. Much easier than for an MD even. Jobs are waiting anywhere you care to look.
 
farmerbrake said:
Maybe her legs up, but that doesn't mean the boss will like you.....
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I was talking to the boss one day about our completely incompetent port captain/operations manager after he just made yet another very expensive error, "Why do you keep him around?" "He's my son in law, and somebody has to feed my grand babies." He doesn't have to like you to pave the way for you.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Undergrad tuition at Northern Iowa for residents is:


Tuition at Eastern Iowa is $2100 for 15 credits per semester.


Schools in Iowa are cheap, you don't need to attend schools out of state.

Flight training, in the grand scheme of things, all will involve 7.2 gallons per hour of $5.17 fuel on a plane that has $80-ish dollars of fixed costs, no matter what state it takes to the sky, no matter what university or private mom/pop flight school owns it. And, CFI's all will want similar $$$ for sitting in the right seat for you.

Coupling flight training with a university is an odd marriage that doesn't save anyone money.

Go to school where you can afford and study what you like. You will never regret having a college degree.

Learn to fly where and when you can, build hours when you can.

If you combine flying and your work, great. If you can't, you still have a degree for the next 70 years of your life.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean with the college degree, but the problem is, I don't really have any other interest in what 4-year schools have to offer. Nothing really trips my trigger except for trades (like carpentry, construction, electrical, heating/cooling, etc). As far as I know, you can't get a bachelor's degree with those unless it also involves some sort of engineering. I would love to just go to a trade school or community college and do flight training at the same time, but then I wouldn't have a bachelor's degree. I'd have an associate's degree which, if it's true that some employers look for bachelor's degrees, I wouldn't be considered. However, if bachelor's degrees are completely overrated (and it wouldn't be necessary for me to have one), then I would like to go with the route I just talked about.

Flight training costs don't really bother me as long as outrageous tuition costs aren't added to it. In a perfect world, my original plan was to just go to an affordable 4-year school in my state and still be able to do flight training within that same school. However, as far as I know Dubuque was the only 4-year that had an aviation program, but it had a terrible tuition. That's the only reason why I started looking out of state.

Sorry for the long post! I'm just a very detailed person, and I feel like I need to explain everything...
 
James331 said:
Ok I missed your charter pilot bit, as a pt135 pilot I can tell you if you're looking to become a charter pilot you don't need a degree, save your money.

Also you're not going to get a job as a charter pilot right out of flight school, charter is more like job number 3 at minimum after school.

First you'll probably be a instructor or fly skydivers, banner tow, etc.

Next maybe a turbine drop zone or something where you can get some multi turbine time, or flying pt91 for someone.

Now you're probably at pt135 IFR mins.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've heard about "paying your dues" before you actually get to do what you've wanted to do. Do you enjoy being a charter pilot? Would you recommend it?
 
Goflying said:
Have you listened to the Aviation Careers Podcast? The host goes into these types of questions in great detail. He has been advising pilots on issues like this for years.

Have you looked into any aviation scholarships?



Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk
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I have not listened to the podcast. I actually just joined this forum today because I thought it'd be a good idea to ask this question. I haven't been able to really look around the site yet. I'll have to check it out!

I have also not looked into scholarships of any kind yet. I'll probably have to start looking at them somewhat soon. Next August I start my junior year of high school, so I'll probably start looking then.
 
billypudenz said:
I know what you mean with the college degree, but the problem is, I don't really have any other interest in what 4-year schools have to offer. Nothing really trips my trigger except for trades (like carpentry, construction, electrical, heating/cooling, etc). As far as I know, you can't get a bachelor's degree with those unless it also involves some sort of engineering. I would love to just go to a trade school or community college and do flight training at the same time, but then I wouldn't have a bachelor's degree. I'd have an associate's degree which, if it's true that some employers look for bachelor's degrees, I wouldn't be considered. However, if bachelor's degrees are completely overrated (and it wouldn't be necessary for me to have one), then I would like to go with the route I just talked about.



Flight training costs don't really bother me as long as outrageous tuition costs aren't added to it. In a perfect world, my original plan was to just go to an affordable 4-year school in my state and still be able to do flight training within that same school. However, as far as I know Dubuque was the only 4-year that had an aviation program, but it had a terrible tuition. That's the only reason why I started looking out of state.



Sorry for the long post! I'm just a very detailed person, and I feel like I need to explain everything...
Click to expand...



There are many degrees that you don't even know exist. If you like carpentry and construction and such there usually is a construction management degree somewhere around. The people I know who have graduated with construction management degrees have never been unemployed a day in their life. And many of them work for medium and large construction companies that have their own flight departments.

It is not unusual to change your major two or three times while in college. You may not know what's interesting today, but did you get exposed to different ideas and different learning is in college different things will become more interesting to you.

Even "some college" will make you more interesting and more rounded person as you mature in life. That comes across many times in job interviews and networking opportunities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
billypudenz said:
Yes, I've heard about "paying your dues" before you actually get to do what you've wanted to do. Do you enjoy being a charter pilot? Would you recommend it?
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There are many levels of charter pilot jobs both in equipment and annual flight hours and pay. Like any industry, some jobs are better than others. Most of the charter pilots I know working jet charter are pretty happy with their lives. The most happy I know are the private jet pilots. It's like yachts, you hook up with a good owner, and life is a blast. I will not deny that being asked to tag along at the casino and parties with billionaires has some bizarre and fun times. That's why I said the Art History degree, good conversation is what gets you invited along, and billionaires all collect art. Brokering art is a great sideline as well that can provide a lucrative career should you lose your medical.

Only suckers work for poor people. If you have to work for someone else, work for really rich people, same hassle, way better compensation.
 
Have a backup plan. Like someone said earlier, you're one physical away from being unemployed. Try having 3 episodes of kidney stones in 6 months and see what it takes to get your medical back. It can be done, I'm living proof, but it sure is nice to be able to make a living while you're going through the process. And, to echo the other comments, construction management certainly has its advantages. I'm a chemical engineer, and never have to worry about finding a job.
 
Engineering degrees pay for themselves in 4-8 years. Some other business degrees are close to that.

Put it this way. You can't fly for the Navy, or Air force without a 4 year degree in something. Maybe you can fly the remote stuff, I don't know.

Start at a city college and take courses that transfer. Complete your degree, fly when you can, then if you hate it you'll be qualified for something else.
 
docmirror said:
Engineering degrees pay for themselves in 4-8 years. Some other business degrees are close to that.

Put it this way. You can't fly for the Navy, or Air force without a 4 year degree in something. Maybe you can fly the remote stuff, I don't know.

Start at a city college and take courses that transfer. Complete your degree, fly when you can, then if you hate it you'll be qualified for something else.
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I have thought about engineering before. I guess I'll have to look into it more to see exactly what type sounds more interesting to me. I'm assuming you are an engineer yourself?
 
docmirror said:
Engineering degrees pay for themselves in 4-8 years. Some other business degrees are close to that.

Put it this way. You can't fly for the Navy, or Air force without a 4 year degree in something. Maybe you can fly the remote stuff, I don't know.

Start at a city college and take courses that transfer. Complete your degree, fly when you can, then if you hate it you'll be qualified for something else.
Click to expand...

If you intend to go military, may as well go ROTC or another involved program that protects you from education debt.
 
docmirror said:
Engineering degrees pay for themselves in 4-8 years. Some other business degrees are close to that.

Put it this way. You can't fly for the Navy, or Air force without a 4 year degree in something. Maybe you can fly the remote stuff, I don't know.

Start at a city college and take courses that transfer. Complete your degree, fly when you can, then if you hate it you'll be qualified for something else.
Click to expand...
Army will take you flying....with no degree.

Also UAVs....no degree in the Army. All other services requires a rated pilot to fly UAS.
 
Henning said:
If you intend to go military, may as well go ROTC or another involved program that protects you from education debt.
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I didn't necessarily mean that I wanted to go the military route, I was just saying engineering might not be so bad. I've been having mixed feelings about that career for a while now. I just thought about aircraft manufacturing. Would this be a good back up career or not?
 
how's your math?.....you better be a wiz if you're doing engineering.



Full disclosure....I have a masters in Aerospace Engineering.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
how's your math?.....you better be a wiz if you're doing engineering.



Full disclosure....I have a masters in Aerospace Engineering.
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I think I'm pretty good at math. I've always been one year ahead of the rest of my class in math. I just got finished taking honors pre-calc as a sophomore. Next year I'll be taking calculus as a junior. There's not really any other math classes available after that, but I'll take physics as a senior.
 
billypudenz said:
I think I'm pretty good at math. I've always been one year ahead of the rest of my class in math. I just got finished taking honors pre-calc as a sophomore. Next year I'll be taking calculus as a junior. There's not really any other math classes available after that, but I'll take physics as a senior.
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Well then.....be an engineer and fly for fun. You'll make more money. :yes:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Well then.....be an engineer and fly for fun. You'll make more money. :yes:
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Well, engineering just doesn't seem as exciting as flying! Unless you can back it up... I guess I just don't fully understand what you do as an engineer, and that's why I have mixed feelings about it.
 
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