What are the major needs of a FA ?!

[Joana]

Hi everyone!



I’m a degree student and due to my passion for Private Aviation I’m undertaking a paper research targeting this subject.

For that I would like your cooperation so I can understand what are the major difficulties that Corporate Flight attendants, or even pilots when there are no FA’s on board, find to manage the Flight. For what I could understand until now, catering can be a tricky question, as in some places there are few resources. But this is only an example, and that why I need some enlightenment.

So, what other services are not easy to find?



Best regards.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Hi everyone!



I’m a degree student and due to my passion for Private Aviation I’m undertaking a paper research targeting this subject.

For that I would like your cooperation so I can understand what are the major difficulties that Corporate Flight attendants, or even pilots when there are no FA’s on board, find to manage the Flight. For what I could understand until now, catering can be a tricky question, as in some places there are few resources. But this is only an example, and that why I need some enlightenment.

So, what other services are not easy to find?



Best regards.

I don't understand your question. Flight attendants are mostly irrelevant in general aviation. Are you asking what airline pilots would do if flight attendants were not available on the flight, or are you asking why most private pilots don't have a uniformed crew member sitting in the rear seat of their Cessna handing out drinks and sandwiches?

 

[kayoh190]

I think the OP is talking about corporate/charter aviation, where the large cabin business jets might employ a 'cabin attendant'* or two. I never flew anything that had one, so the pilot closing the main cabin door would brief the passengers, show them where all the food/drinks were, and then hop up front. Our Gulfstreams grabbed cabin attendants from a pool of contractors that were known in the area.

*many operators called them 'cabin attendants' because they didn't want to spend the money to properly train them as 'flight attendants'. Even the larger business jets didn't have the seating capacity (over 19?) to actually *require* an attendant to be there.

 

[Clip4]

Hi everyone!



I’m a degree student and due to my passion for Private Aviation I’m undertaking a paper research targeting this subject.

For that I would like your cooperation so I can understand what are the major difficulties that Corporate Flight attendants, or even pilots when there are no FA’s on board, find to manage the Flight. For what I could understand until now, catering can be a tricky question, as in some places there are few resources. But this is only an example, and that why I need some enlightenment.

So, what other services are not easy to find?



Best regards.

First, you have to understand the duty of an FA, which is not food service. The FAA requires an FA when common carriage is taking place and the plane has a certain number of passengers. The more passengers, the more FAs are required. Their duty is to increase the safety and efficiency of the flight. Generally their duty is to brief the passengers about the safety procedures and to assist in an emergency such as evacuating the aircraft.

Corporate jets commonly operate under different rules because they are private carriage. There passenger loads are small and conducting a safety briefing and other safety duties are the pilots responsibility. As far as catering, about any airport servicing private jets has a local deli that provides items for the planes on a preorder basis. The pilot typically advises the passengers how to serve themselves.

If the corporate jet is a charter, it is common carriage. The rules may require FAs or the operator may opt to provide FAs as part of their service.

 

[coloradobluesky]

The Captain of the corp jet carries the lunch in. The copilot carries out the garbage. No FA needed.

 

[Joana]

@Sac Arrow
Maybe I did not explained myself correctly. I meant to say in Corporate/ Business/ Private Aviation. Andof course I mean in flights that actually require someone to arrange catering and all those kind of things to the passangers, and sometimes catering to the pilots too.

@kayoh190
That was exactly what I meant. And thank you for explaining why some are designated cabin attendants and other F/A.
And when you say "so the pilot closing the main cabin door would brief the passengers" are the pilots normally the ones who arrange all what passangers desire (like food, drinks, flowers, etc)? Also, do you know if when that cabin attendants are contrated, are they the ones who take care of those things?

 

[Joana]

@Clip4
I do understand what you mean, and I do understand the role of an a F/A. But I belive that those duties are mainly applied in General Aviation. And what I am trying to perceive is the real role of corporative/ business/ private F/A, which I belive is completely different.
For what I have been discovering in my research, catering is one of their duties whenever they fly.

 

[Everskyward]

As @kayoh190 pointed out, true flight attendants are not required on 135 flights unless they are carrying more than 19 passengers. True flight attendants are required to have FAA mandated training on certain subjects.

Cabin attendants only need the training the operator provides. I think there are schools that provide general cabin attendant training, but it's not required. Cabin attendants are listed as passengers, not crewmembers. They don't give the safety briefing. One of the pilots does that.

Cabin attendants arrange for and prepare the catering. They serve it and clean up. The passenger preferences may already be known, or the cabin attendant can ask.

 

[kayoh190]

And when you say "so the pilot closing the main cabin door would brief the passengers" are the pilots normally the ones who arrange all what passangers desire (like food, drinks, flowers, etc)? Also, do you know if when that cabin attendants are contrated, are they the ones who take care of those things?

The specifics really depend on the operation, and to a certain extent the size of the operation. Some pilots find themselves doing almost all of the work, while others next to none of it. The company where I worked sat somewhere in the middle. All of our airplanes were stocked with a regular compliment of snacks, drinks, and booze. When we'd get back from a trip, we'd replace whatever was consumed with new stuff from storage lockers in the hangar where the airplane was kept. That way it was ready to go on short notice for the next trip. If the client requested actual meals to be onboard, our team in the office would arrange the appropriate caterers to take care of it, and as pilots we'd see a note on the trip sheet to expect catering. The caterers would arrive an hour or so before departure and we'd set it up in the cabin before the passengers arrived.

Sometimes the client didn't need full on catering, but requested a snack or booze item that wasn't part of our normal stock (say they wanted Grey Goose when we had Ketel onboard). In that case one of us (the pilots) would stop and grab a bottle of Goose on the way to the airport. The bottom line is that if the client wants it, we made sure it was there for them. If enough notice was given, usually our support team from the office would take care of it, but last minute stuff sometimes fell to the shoulders of the pilots. Like I said, I never flew our Gulfstreams so I'm not familiar with how it was handled with Cabin Attendants, but it looks like Everyskyward got that covered for you.

 

[Sac Arrow]

@Clip4
I do understand what you mean, and I do understand the role of an a F/A. But I belive that those duties are mainly applied in General Aviation. And what I am trying to perceive is the real role of corporative/ business/ private F/A, which I belive is completely different.
For what I have been discovering in my research, catering is one of their duties whenever they fly.

Just to be clear, 'general aviation' mostly pertains to private operations under FAR Part 91 regulations that are not for hire. Any flight where a flight attendant would be required, would be a commercial operation under Part 135 or 121 rules. I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[luvflyin]

Just to be clear, 'general aviation' mostly pertains to private operations under FAR Part 91 regulations that are not for hire. Any flight where a flight attendant would be required, would be a commercial operation under Part 135 or 121 rules. I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't really correct you because I don't know for sure. But I think you can be flying your biz jet around with employees, clients etc under Part 91 as long as you aren't charging them for the ride.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I can't really correct you because I don't know for sure. But I think you can be flying your biz jet around with employees, clients etc under Part 91 as long as you aren't charging them for the ride.

Perhaps, but don't the rules for FA's kick in at the 135/121 level?

 

[luvflyin]

Perhaps, but don't the rules for FA's kick in at the 135/121 level?

I dunno.

 

[Everskyward]

Perhaps, but don't the rules for FA's kick in at the 135/121 level?

In 135 you don't need a flight attendant (FAA style) unless the airplane has more than 19 passenger seats. For airplanes with less seating, you could have a flight attendant, but they more often use cabin attendants. The difference is that a "flight attendant" is a crewmember and there are FAA requirements for their training. A "cabin attendant" is technically a passenger.

 

[Kritchlow]

I did corporate aviation without an FA for many years.
A few things come to mind that made it difficult..

1) Passengers up in the cabin when they shouldn't be. They pay no attention to seatbelt signs, and don't even buckle them while seated. That's not to mention shoulder harness and headrests.
It's impossible for us to babysit them when we are upfront looking forward.
Same can be said for unsecured items in the cabin, seat positions, and a host of other things that are regulatory.

2) Pre & Post flight duties. Cleaning and stocking the airplane, gathering catering (some even want it heated), getting newspapers, ice, coffee etc... At times we even got a crew car to go on a mission to find specific requested items.
Usually not a big deal, but we often need that time to review things pertinent to the flight such as weather & notams.

 

[kayoh190]

Perhaps, but don't the rules for FA's kick in at the 135/121 level?

I dunno.

I had to look it up, but you guys got me curious. CFR 91.533 gives similar requirements for FAs onboard, but with an important distinction: it's based on the number of passengers actually onboard the aircraft, whereas the 135 and 121 version of this rule is based on the number of seats available. So a BBJ operating under 91 wouldn't need an FA if only 10 passengers were onboard, but would if 20 were. That same plane operating under 135 would need the requisite number of FAs regardless of the amount of people actually onboard.

Or at least that's how I read it.

 

[Everskyward]

I only flew with a cabin attendant a handful of times. It was nice. Otherwise the pilots play cabin attendant.

 

[luvflyin]

To answer the posted question I'd guess that money is pretty high up there on the list.

 

[paflyer]

Are term papers due already?

 

[Sac Arrow]

For some reason, when I hear the term "cabin attendant" I am visualizing someone standing in the bathroom holding a roll of toilet paper.

 

[Hank S]

I've made hundreds of GA flights, almost all of them as the pilot. Not one single time was one of the other seats occupied by a "flight attendant" or a "cabin attendant."

But sometimes when the flights were long and spanned a normal mealtime, my wife (if she came along) has given me things to eat. I generally keep a water bottle within arms' reach anyway, just because altitude is drier than sea level and it's good to have a sip sometimes.

All of the piloting stuff, as well as ground operations, hotel / vehicle / food arrangements, we're made by me, sometimes in advance, sometimes after landing, depending upon the circumstances of the flight.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I've made hundreds of GA flights, almost all of them as the pilot. Not one single time was one of the other seats occupied by a "flight attendant" or a "cabin attendant."

But sometimes when the flights were long and spanned a normal mealtime, my wife (if she came along) has given me things to eat. I generally keep a water bottle within arms' reach anyway, just because altitude is drier than sea level and it's good to have a sip sometimes.

All of the piloting stuff, as well as ground operations, hotel / vehicle / food arrangements, we're made by me, sometimes in advance, sometimes after landing, depending upon the circumstances of the flight.

Oh I don't know, I think that could be cool....

 

[jordane93]

My friend is a corporate flight attendant for some family in a Gulfstream. She did the regionals for about a year and decided it wasn't for her. She likes the corporate gig. I have no doubts that it's a lot of work.