Ways to get my ATP

Ted

Ted

Twin Engine Ted
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Let's say that I decided I wanted to get my ATP for the fun of it and because there's some money available to pay for part of it. Under the new rules I know I have to take a course, and a lot of people do this in conjunction with a type rating. I like drinking from a fire hose, I'm good at studying on my own, and I also have the limitation of my wife being gone for 6 days at a time, so it would need to be something that I could do within 6 days of travel time. I haven't done the CTP stuff. I also have no type ratings, and while I have no need for one, it's something that would be fun. I've always wanted a Lear type rating, for instance (although these days that's a fairly useless rating).

I don't have any plans or real aspirations of going into being a professional pilot so this would really be about having fun and learning something in a manner that's partially subsidized. Price does matter because while it could get partially subsidized (and enough that it makes it worth considering), it's not enough to pay for the full amount unless I could do it for way, way cheaper than I think.

Suggestions? @Lance F and others had talked about negotiating with sim centers to try to get pricing down for CTP and type ratings. FlightSafety Wichita isn't too far away, and of course there are other training centers I could get to.
 
You can get a 737 type in Seattle for less than $10,000, or at least you used to be able.
 
kgruber said:
You can get a 737 type in Seattle for less than $10,000, or at least you used to be able.
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I've heard rumors about that and it definitely would be an entertaining option. Any links to facilities that offer that?
 
Don't waste your money. I'll sell you my ATP certificate for about half what it will cost you to do the 737 type rating....:lol::lol:
 
MauleSkinner said:
You could always do 5he ATP-SE and save a bunch of hassle. :D
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I could, but it doesn't really make sense. The ATP-ME actually does something that could help my aviation career in the future should I decide to fly. ATP-SE does nothing for me.
 
Does Sporty's still do the CTP program using the ABX facilities and simulators in Wilmington, OH?
 
Larry in TN said:
Does Sporty's still do the CTP program using the ABX facilities and simulators in Wilmington, OH?
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They do. My thought is I'd rather work with a company that would let me get a type rating out of the deal if I'm going to mess with it. Or at least someplace closer.
 
While it's not a jet, I believe there are companies that do DC3 type ratings for not-a-ridiculous price.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
While it's not a jet, I believe there are companies that do DC3 type ratings for not-a-ridiculous price.
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I think those are mostly SIC and they wouldn't be able to help with the CTP requirements.
 
Apply to a regional, have them do the ATPCTP, then show up your first day of work reeking of weed. :D
 
EdFred said:
Apply to a regional, have them do the ATPCTP, then show up your first day of work reeking of weed. :D
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I thought that was how you got promoted?

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An unspecified amount of hours at $3500/hr gets you your Me262 type rating in Houston....I would venture to guess you also do your ATP ride at the same time :D
 
Well, if you’re going for a type you need to decide whether it’s for fun, or for practical use.
Cost is also an issue I assume. Some types can get very expensive, and lengthy living in a hotel.
 
Kritchlow said:
Well, if you’re going for a type you need to decide whether it’s for fun, or for practical use.
Cost is also an issue I assume. Some types can get very expensive, and lengthy living in a hotel.
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Correct. I have no need for a type rating of any sort, and my schedule doesn't allow me to be gone for long periods of time. I also don't have a need for an ATP, although if I did eventually decide that I wanted to go to corporate/charter a lot of the better companies want you to have your ATP already.

It seems like the 737/A320 types are the cheapest to get, with options <$10k including the CTP/ATP and about a week at the sim with home study for most of it. I'm sure the quality of that is you get what you pay for, but nobody's going to hire me to be a 737 captain anyway.
 
How about getting a CE-500 type? It’s pretty common and should you decide to go corporate, it may give you a leg up.
 
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Interesting thread. I did my ATP written/checkride back in July 2014/July 2016 "just because" since I figured the cost of the CTP would be prohibitively expensive.

If I were going to do it now, I'd try to do it in something that I might be be able to get some flying time in, say a Citation CE500/525 or the like. Then if you're looking for a job you've now got an ATP, type rating, and some really flight time. Anyone hiring you for a 737 job is going to be looking for turbine experience. I think those 737 type rating shops exist just for folks with turbine experience to look desirable to Southwest.
 
I forget "where" in California, but I got my CE500 type in one day.

It was in the time (maybe still) that your first jet type rating had to be in the airplane. I showed up for the "first" day and there were three American Airlines pilots getting their first jet type in the CE500. They were in a hurry, so we did the ground in an hour and everyone jumped in the airplane.

We flew around. changing seats often, and quit around midnight. Everyone with the type in his pocket.

The school offered me a discount on a Lear Jet type, but got that at Flight Safety.
 
Brad Z said:
If I were going to do it now, I'd try to do it in something that I might be be able to get some flying time in, say a Citation CE500/525 or the like. Then if you're looking for a job you've now got an ATP, type rating, and some really flight time. Anyone hiring you for a 737 job is going to be looking for turbine experience. I think those 737 type rating shops exist just for folks with turbine experience to look desirable to Southwest.
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There's always that point that a useful type would open some more doors potentially, and Citation is an easy single pilot jet to get into. But for me to do this at all, it would need to have a low enough cost and time commitment that I would be able to fit it in/justify it.
 
The CE500 type makes the most sense for you imo. Plus, if you ever decided to trade the MU2 in for a CJ or something, you’d already have that box checked.
 
DavidWhite said:
An unspecified amount of hours at $3500/hr gets you your Me262 type rating in Houston....I would venture to guess you also do your ATP ride at the same time :D
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That would be a mere Letter of Authorization, as the 262 has no type certificate.
 
Ryanb said:
The CE500 type makes the most sense for you imo. Plus, if you ever decided to trade the MU2 in for a CJ or something, you’d already have that box checked.
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Yep. You can fly vastly different Cessnas with that rating (hello, 737 MAX?)
 
Ryanb said:
The CE500 type makes the most sense for you imo. Plus, if you ever decided to trade the MU2 in for a CJ or something, you’d already have that box checked.
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There's always the consideration of what "could" happen, but while I didn't expect to be in the MU-2 at all I really don't expect a CJ to happen. Even if one was donated I seriously doubt I could figure out how to afford operating it, especially since the MU-2 is already a stretch.
 
It's important to distinguish the ATP from a type rating. Two different things.

As for the multi-engine ATP (since you stated you are not interested in SE), you correctly posted you need to complete a CTP in order to take the written. There are a number of places that do those and just look them up and go to the one you like. I know a lot of people believe they are worthless, but I got a lot out of it. I did mine at ATP/Higher Power in Dallas. I thought it was really interesting and covered high-altitude, high-speed flight, etc., and lots of scenarios of flights gone wrong.

I can't give much advice for the ATP practical because I did mine via an airline approved training program (get through airline training and automatically get it). But I have several friends who did it in a Seneca...said it was like doing the multi-engine rating except under the hood.

You can think about whether you want a particular type rating, but it is entirely separate from the ATP. I think getting the ATP should have more priority than a type rating, go ahead and do that first.

I think if you believe it would benefit you to advance in aviation to just do it - and the sooner the better. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
There's always the consideration of what "could" happen, but while I didn't expect to be in the MU-2 at all I really don't expect a CJ to happen. Even if one was donated I seriously doubt I could figure out how to afford operating it, especially since the MU-2 is already a stretch.
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Roger that.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Things have sure changed since I did my ATP.
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Yes they have. I know folks who did the written, and then passed some guy like $1000 cash to hop into his twin, launch, take controls airborne and do one hold and one approach and call it good. Didn't even know what kind of airplane they had just flown. No oral at all. Now it is a $10k proposition with all kinds of FAA oversight, assuming you don't get a regional airline to front the bill.
 
35 AoA said:
Yes they have. I know folks who did the written, and then passed some guy like $1000 cash to hop into his twin, launch, take controls airborne and do one hold and one approach and call it good. Didn't even know what kind of airplane they had just flown. No oral at all. Now it is a $10k proposition with all kinds of FAA oversight, assuming you don't get a regional airline to front the bill.
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Hmmmm. So you are saying that a DPE gave a ATP rating with no oral, and openly did not follow the PTS for ATP? :eek:o_O

Do you have first hand knowledge of this, or was this a bar story? :rolleyes:
 
Doc Holliday said:
Hmmmm. So you are saying that a DPE gave a ATP rating with no oral, and openly did not follow the PTS for ATP? :eek:o_O

Do you have first hand knowledge of this, or was this a bar story? :rolleyes:
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probably a quasi bar story, told in the past tense, about an event from ~ 15 years ago. Apparently the DPE got decertified in the end. FWIW, I am certainly not saying this was/would have been a good thing :) But if true, or somewhat true, it is telling of the difference in mindset between then and now.
 
35 AoA said:
probably a quasi bar story, told in the past tense, about an event from ~ 15 years ago. Apparently the DPE got decertified in the end. FWIW, I am certainly not saying this was/would have been a good thing :) But if true, or somewhat true, it is telling of the difference in mindset between then and now.
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I did my ATP in 1985, and it was one of the easiest checkrides I've taken. Oral was on the airplane (Cessna 404) and the ride per the PTS. And I took my ATP ride with an FAA ASI.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Things have sure changed since I did my ATP.
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When I did the ATP we did the ILS and single engine ILS in a flight training device. Then we went to the plane, a Piper Seminole, and did the air work.

We did a VOR approach, followed by a GPS approach then a localizer approach. And between each approach the DPE took the controls so I could get set up for the next approach. I felt pretty comfortable the entire time. I even let the DPE do a landing to help with his currency.

The oral was more like an instrument checkride oral as we talked mostly about the approaches we would be doing and about the approach plates.
 
My ATP/initial type was the easiest ride. AQP really makes things easy. I did hear horror stories of the old Pinnacle days where the examiners would play stupid tricks. Luckily, the training department weeded them out. My initial and recurrents have been non events.
 
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