United Airlines customer service

Customer service is so bad on US based airlines that following the "act like a meek little sheep and do what you're told" advice of some experts on here simply means you'll be told to eff off by the airline for the next few months until you give up, if they even bother to respond at all. The average person who can't mobilise a 50k Twitter following has no hope of getting anything out of cesspits like United unless it becomes newsworthy like this.

It's a shame because many of the employees are decent, but the companies as a whole make it clear that fulfilling their promises to the customer are only of limited interest as long as they get your money first.
 
bflynn said:
Rule 25. It's generically called "Denied Boarding", but also deals with the reasons you cannot fly. Just because you have a ticket is no promise that you will actually be on the plane when it takes off.
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No, he was boarded already. The rule you're looking for is Rule 21, refusal of transport. It lists specific reasons why you can be removed from the plane, overbooking not being one of them.

He was not being "disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent" before this incident. I see nothing in Rule 21 that allows United to deboard this passenger.

United screwed this one up (well, I'm not sure if it was United or Republic), and they will do whatever it takes to avoid this from going to a jury. His lawyer will present 20 options on how United could have got the crew to SDF legally, but chose not to "because of corporate greed" (read: a charter jet would've been too expensive).
Their overbooking policies absolutely suck, I've been part of the live auction a few times when they offer 200USD in travel credit usable within 12 months, then 400USD, etc. 800 is the max they go up to, then they will IDB. They put the DB'd pax at ORD to a Ramada that's 50 minutes from ORD in the middle of absolutely nowhere. I wouldn't want to spend 24 hours there, only to get a 800USD "travel credit" on an airline I try to avoid as much as possible anyway.
Had they offered cash, I'm sure there would've been takers, but United decided losing almost 1 billion in market cap and very likely tens of millions in marketing costs they will have to incur to buy back reputation lost because of this incident was better than offering $1000 in cash to 4 people on a plane. Or paying $10k to charter a jet to SDF.
Sheer lunacy from United, I hope the CEO burns because of this, although knowing how long that previous scumbag, Smisek, was there, I doubt that will happen.

United. Putting the "hospital" in "hospitality".
 
deonb said:
It's because it's not actual money. It's a travel voucher only good on United. That's like offering someone a free overnight stay in the county jail.
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150 people that we're glad to goto county lock up in the first place when they bought those tickets.

Besides, Ebay.
 
Who wants to join me on United Airlines flight 999 Fight Club edition?!?
 
jordane93 said:
I agree. But it did get to that point and should have complied.
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They could still have asked for real volunteers to get off for a higher payout, instead of making someone an involuntary volunteer.
 
bflynn said:
Rule 25. It's generically called "Denied Boarding", but also deals with the reasons you cannot fly. Just because you have a ticket is no promise that you will actually be on the plane when it takes off.
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Denied Boarding doesnt mean you allow to board and then get kicked out without a valid reason as documented in COC. a good attorney will have a field day if UA tries Rule 25. when you dont deny boarding, you loose that right. same thing like no one can enter your property without your consent, when you invite them in and kick them out, trespassing laws dont apply
 
How about this for an idea- the airline can overbook all it wants to and boot anyone it wants to but require them to have an alternate means of transportation available that can, barring weather or other unforeseeable safety issues, get the passenger to their destination within 5 hours of the original schedule AND refund their money. That alternate means could be anything from another airline to a charter jet to a piston single or even a bus taxi or train but make them do it. If they fail to get the passenger there for any reason beyond act of god type stuff they pay a huge fine to the passenger(not a 3 letter agency).
 
orange said:
I think that was offered at first. They even said "pretty please with a cherry on top" but the guy didn't budge. Should they have just walked away?

This was a calculated move on the part of the "doc" to get a payday. But there was no other way for this to end once the cops were called. Cops will never be the ones to back down. The thing that United could have done differently is try harder to get volunteers to get off by offering cash, not vouchers. Like somebody said vouchers on United are not really very tempting.
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How does one calculate to get bumped from a flight? :confused2:

Rich
 
WannFly said:
Denied Boarding doesnt mean you allow to board and then get kicked out without a valid reason as documented in COC. a good attorney will have a field day if UA tries Rule 25. when you dont deny boarding, you loose that right. same thing like no one can enter your property without your consent, when you invite them in and kick them out, trespassing laws dont apply
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And this is implied by having "refusal of transport" rule separate from denied boarding. UA has no chance to defend this case as a Denied Boarding case.
 
RJM62 said:
I understand everything that you're saying. But in the end, to the passenger, none of it makes a difference. Bumped is bumped regardless of the reason.

Airlines are not the only businesses that have to deal with the unexpected and plan around likelihoods rather than certainties. I have to do the same thing. I always oversell hosting, for example, because I know that the vast majority of clients will never use as much storage or bandwidth as they bought. But if enough of them do, then I have to either upgrade my upstream resources purchases or pay exorbitant overage fees to accommodate the total demand. That's life.

Rich
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As you say, airlines are not the only businesses with this problem. When I owned a veterinary hospital, one of our absolute biggest problems were people that made an appointment and then never showed up, or showed up late, after the next appointment was taken in to see the doctor. And God forbid we ever charge a "no show fee". If we did, the social media sites would have lit up like a bottle rocket "all they care about is money". And if we overbooked and everyone showed up, the lobby would become a bed of hostile customers because they had to wait past their appointment time. Even if we had a bloody emergency rush in, people still got mad and said we should leave empty slots to accommodate emergencies. The real problem was that we never knew if we would have a 50% no-show rate, or if everyone would show up, PLUS we would have a dozen walk-in emergencies.
 
Everskyward said:
They could still have asked for real volunteers to get off for a higher payout, instead of making someone an involuntary volunteer.
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This sort of thing seems to be a huge failing in a lot of large companies. They want everyone to have a consistent experience(and not to be paying out more than they have to) so they put limits on their employees to the point nobody can really do anything even when it makes complete sense to do so.
 
cowman said:
How about this for an idea- the airline can overbook all it wants to and boot anyone it wants to but require them to have an alternate means of transportation available that can, barring weather or other unforeseeable safety issues, get the passenger to their destination within 5 hours of the original schedule AND refund their money. That alternate means could be anything from another airline to a charter jet to a piston single or even a bus taxi or train but make them do it. If they fail to get the passenger there for any reason beyond act of god type stuff they pay a huge fine to the passenger(not a 3 letter agency).
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That's a good way to raise the price of a ticket. That could be an option but you'll be paying for it in the end.
 
jordane93 said:
That's a good way to raise the price of a ticket. That could be an option but you'll be paying for it in the end.
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Right and that sort of becomes where all this stuff gets sticky.

We(the public as a group) are always demanding better treatment but the same we will also go with the airline selling a ticket $50 cheaper the majority of the time.
 
jordane93 said:
You said they needed to de-escalate the situation. How many times do you think the LEO said, "sir we need you to remove your stuff and get off this plane." I'm guessing he said no and look what happened.
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Exactly. I don't think the cops came over and yanked the guy out of his seat without a word. It probably went something like this:

police: Good morning sir.
the doc: (silence)
police: The flight crew is requesting that you de-board the plane. Please stand up, get your things, and we will walk you out of the plane back into the terminal.
the doc: No. I paid for this seat. I have the right to be on this flight.
police: Sir, our job is to escort you off this plane, so we need you to comply. We need you to stand up and exit the plane.
the doc: I'm not going anywhere
police: Sir, if you do not comply, we will have to forcefully remove you. Nobody wants that to happen.
the doc: (silence)
police: Sir, this is your last warning.
the doc: (silence)

The police then proceeded to remove the gentleman from the airplane as gently as they could, and he happened to bump his head during his own resistance.

Did they say if he was charged at all? He should be charged with disorderly conduct, in my opinion.
 
CC268 said:
Hahaha
View attachment 52691
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In all fairness to UAL, the social media ****storm is not all their fault. It's the culmination of decades of commercial air travel in general becoming more and more like livestock transport, except with lower standards. This is the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were. The social media outcry is the flying public's way of saying to the entire industry that they're tired of it.

How long it lasts and whether UAL and the other carriers take the hint and make some changes is anyone's guess. Personally, I doubt it. Pax will still shop for the lowest fares, and they'll get what they pay for.

Rich
 
Funny thing is, all they have to do is drop their prices $10-20 below the competition and everyone will still be filling the planes.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Funny thing is, all they have to do is drop their prices $10-20 below the competition and everyone will still be filling the planes.
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Exactly. There are some people who will hold true to their word though and not fly United. About a decade ago, my mom saw blatant racism going on at a Stop N Shop (grocery store if you don't know) and to this day, she still doesn't shop there. But for the most part, people will just shop for the lowest bidder and not care.
 
172andyou said:
Today's summary:

1) The "doctor" turns out to be a felon who had his license stripped for trading sex for drugs

2) He's also a semi-pro gambler

Would think he'd know when to fold 'em...

I'm curious to hear what his BAC turned out to be after his weekend gambling trip...
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None of which were know to United at the time, nor is is relevant in any way.
 
ifly4fun said:
Every voucher i've received can be transferred. In fact I have 4 right now from my last wonderful United experience.
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Ok, the VDB voucher I got last time said not transferrable and had my name on it. Not sure if they have different kinds of vouchers.
 
jordane93 said:
Exactly. There are some people who will hold true to their word though and not fly United. About a decade ago, my mom saw blatant racism going on at a Stop N Shop (grocery store if you don't know) and to this day, she still doesn't shop there. But for the most part, people will just shop for the lowest bidder and not care.
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But those people are also the ones with least value for United. What matters are the frequent premium travelers and corporate accounts. Someone who books the cheapest ticket once a year only works as a seat warmer. It keeps the seat utilization up, but lowers the yield.
I'm waiting for the first company to publicly say they won't fly United any more.
 
WannFly said:
Denied Boarding doesnt mean you allow to board and then get kicked out without a valid reason as documented in COC. a good attorney will have a field day if UA tries Rule 25. when you dont deny boarding, you loose that right. same thing like no one can enter your property without your consent, when you invite them in and kick them out, trespassing laws dont apply
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And United's lawyers will have a field day showing you that boarding can be defined as the period in which boarding occurs, up until the door is closed.
 
When a PR industry magazine is already taking you to the woodshed...yikes.

http://www.prweek.com/article/1430341/united-airlines-needs-better

"The incident has shed much light on our choice of the United CEO as Communicator of the Year at the PRWeek Awards last month. It’s fair to say that if PRWeek was choosing its Communicator of the Year now, we would not be awarding it to Oscar Munoz."
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
And United's lawyers will have a field day showing you that boarding can be defined as the period in which boarding occurs, up until the door is closed.
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I really doubt it will get to the point that the Lawyers will be arguing much of anything. This will be settled out of court, and it will cost United a lot more than hiring a charter jet to get those 4 crew members to their destination, not even including the cost of the bad publicity and the PR costs trying to recover their reputation.
 
WannFly said:
so you think its within a Airlines right to remove passengers when they are already boarded?
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I was in a Subway sandwich place the other day and watched them call the police to have a customer removed that they did not want to be there. If you're on MY property and I ask you to leave you gotta leave. What part of that can't you understand or do you just like to demonize those EVIL airlines. ?

People get forcibly removed from somewhere by cops probably every day and probably a lot more dramatic than this. I really don't see what the big deal is - except that this has been trumped up on all the social media and made out to be more than it was. United just called the cops to have someone removed. If you feel the cops handled it poorly then take it out on them. United did not instruct the cops on how to accomplish this task in any way.
 
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News just said he and his wife volunteered off for $400 and a later flight. When they found out the later flight would be the next day they changed their minds and got on board. What combination of this happening in the terminal and/or on the plane wasn't said. Is it possible they volunteered in the gate area, changed their mind when finding out it would be tomorrow, the gate agent said ok and gave them boarding passes, then he got picked later when on the plane. It don't seem quite right to me, but could it have happened like that??
 
Art VanDelay said:
I was in a Subway sandwich place the other day and watched them call the police to have a customer removed that they did not want to be there. If you're on MY property and I ask you to leave you gotta leave. What part of that can't you understand or do you just like to demonize those EVIL airlines. ?

People get forcibly removed from somewhere by cops probably every day and probably a lot more dramatic than this. I really don't see what the big deal is - except that this has been trumped up on all the social media and made out to be more than it was. United just called the cops to have someone removed. If you feel the cops handled it poorly then take it out on them. United did not instruct the cops on how to accomplish this task in any way.
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100%. This is the whole story right here.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I was in a Subway sandwich place the other day and watched them call the police to have a customer removed that they did not want to be there. If you're on MY property and I ask you to leave you gotta leave. What part of that can't you understand or do you just like to demonize those EVIL airlines. ?

People get forcibly removed from somewhere by cops probably every day and probably a lot more dramatic than this. I really don't see what the big deal is - except that this has been trumped up on all the social media and made out to be more than it was. United just called the cops to have someone removed. If you feel the cops handled it poorly then take it out on them. United did not instruct the cops on how to accomplish this task in any way.
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Yep. It sucks, but passengers have no rights on a plane that the company owns and operates.
 
murphey said:
Did the supervisor at the gate make the offer to everyone in the airplane, or just point to 4 people and say Get Up and Out?
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The offer was made to everyone as is required by DOT regulations. The final offer was $1,000 travel voucher plus hotel room.

mtuomi said:
Ok, the VDB voucher I got last time said not transferrable and had my name on it. Not sure if they have different kinds of vouchers.
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You can not give, sell, or trade the voucher to someone else but you can use the voucher to buy a ticket for someone else.

luvflyin said:
Is it possible they volunteered in the gate area, changed their mind when finding out it would be tomorrow, the gate agent said ok and gave them boarding passes, then he got picked later when on the plane.
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It doesn't matter.

"Denied boarding" is a DOT term in the regulations which govern overbooking and denied boarding. Boarded has not ended until the flight has departed. A passenger can be "denied boarding" under DOT regulations regardless of their physical location on, or off, the airplane.

The DOT's Fly Rights site discusses the requirements of the regulation. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

Also, the offer often increases, as it did in this case. The final offer of $1,000 plus hotel would then be paid to all volunteers even if they volunteered when the current offer was less. A volunteer doesn't get paid less because they volunteered early.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I was in a Subway sandwich place the other day and watched them call the police to have a customer removed that they did not want to be there.
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Was it because the customer refused to leave before he got the sandwich he had paid for?

I get that the airline can remove passengers from the airplane for their own reasons. But was this a smart move? I think the fact that this is an 8 page thread and it is all over social and regular media would give you the answer.
 
I love this Subway sandwich analogy, it's fun. In this case, guy bought a sandwich, had it in his hands, and was about to take his first bite. But, then the Subway employee says sorry, I have to take that sandwich back as one of the restaurant crew needs to eat. But, we can give you another sandwich in 24hrs.

Subway wouldn't be in business very long.
 
cowman said:
That's something that just bewilders me in situations like this. Sure, United shouldn't have let this happen. Sure, sometimes cops are in the wrong. You have recourse- you can demand satisfaction from the company or you can file charges/sue the police officers. Later. Sitting there and refusing to comply or fighting/arguing with the police isn't going to ever lead to a winning outcome. Yet we see these videos all the time. What's wrong with these people? What else are they expecting to happen when they behave like that? I don't get it.
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It has already led to a winning outcome.

I predict a 5 figure settlement from United for him and better customer service for everyone. And if the doctor is a vindictive type, and I bet he is, the satisfaction of seeing United stock drop $300,000,000. Point being that civil disobedience, whether you approve of it or not, changes things, sometimes for the better.
 
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I have a hard time believing what happened to this dude is 'okay'. United shouldn't of tried removing already boarded passengers. However it's their plane and they can do that if need be. The issue I have is with the way he was removed.

He seemed more like an over zealous college bar bouncer than any type of law enforcement. And yes it will still roll up to United...
 
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