United Airlines customer service

Captain said:
Rich, overselling the flight is only ONE reason for denied boardings. I've mentioned several other reasons already but there are many many more. It would be impossible to guarantee boarding to every seat sold, at best you could minimize the number.

Take a 100 seat airplane:

Over selling; they sell 110 knowing only 100 show up, or
NEF: inbound flight has broken / unusable seats, or
Air Marshals decide to work a flight, or
Equipment downgrade, 100 seat plane broke...now using 70 seat plane, or
Another flight has an issue requiring personnel movement.

And guess what? Whatever the reason is the gate agent is going to pick up the mic asking volunteers to give up their seat because of the same reason...an "oversold flight". And it's true, technically it's oversold whatever the reason was...there are now too many paying passengers for the amount of seats available.

BTW, I'm very pro passenger. I don't take kindly to mistreatment of my passengers and can and do stand up for them. On many occasions I've crawled into the bellies looking for a stroller wheel that fell off, or gone to stop the stroller from going to baggage for a mom holding a baby in the jet bridge. Once a kid fell in the jet bridge and busted himself up pretty good requiring a trip to the hospital. They wanted to leave the families bags on the plane to save an on time departure. I told them screw that and go get this poor families bags out of the bellies. They were in for a bad enough night and didn't need the worry of none of their stuff added to it.

Point is that it's amusing to see people throw industry people under the bus because we don't go full outrage on this.
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I understand everything that you're saying. But in the end, to the passenger, none of it makes a difference. Bumped is bumped regardless of the reason.

Airlines are not the only businesses that have to deal with the unexpected and plan around likelihoods rather than certainties. I have to do the same thing. I always oversell hosting, for example, because I know that the vast majority of clients will never use as much storage or bandwidth as they bought. But if enough of them do, then I have to either upgrade my upstream resources purchases or pay exorbitant overage fees to accommodate the total demand. That's life.

Inasmuch as I'm the guy who makes the profit when I guess right, I'm also the guy who has to eat the loss when I guess wrong. Regardless of the reason, I have to honor my commitment to my customer. This is true for most businesses, so why not airlines?

By the way, I've never been bumped from a flight. I have accepted voluntary "re-accomodations" from time to time, however, when I was in no hurry and I thought the deals were generous. The last time was in ATL when I was wishing that I'd scheduled an extra day or two into the trip anyway. I'd finished my business, but I liked the city more than I thought I would and regretted not scheduling some tourist time into the trip.

When the Delta gate agent asked for volunteers, I asked what they were offering. She offered me a voucher and some cash (I think it was a $200.00 gift card, but I wouldn't swear to it) to fly on a later flight into HPN the same day. I negotiated it into a first-class upgrade and no voucher or cash on a flight two days later. That worked out nicely all around.

Rich
 
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SaltH2OHokie said:
I think the moral is fly first/business. Don't see meltdown videos from the forward cabins too often.
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I also like business class. That's what I opt for when I can. First is too expensive for someone who just wants some peace, quiet, and legroom, and doesn't care about the food, booze, or blankies.

Rich
 
Captain said:
Over selling; they sell 110 knowing only 100 show up, or
NEF: inbound flight has broken / unusable seats, or
Air Marshals decide to work a flight, or
Equipment downgrade, 100 seat plane broke...now using 70 seat plane, or
Another flight has an issue requiring personnel movement.
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All except one of these are down to the airline not doing their job, either through inadequate maintenance/sparing or inadequate staffing. In any other industry, as Rich says, the business would be expected to do whatever is necessary to honour their commitment. For some reasons airlines don't seem to see any obligation to actually deliver the service that people have paid for, and that's what ****es people off.
 
What i don't understand is why they didn't just up the offer.. $1000-$1500 is going to get some of the cattle off the plane.
 
ifly4fun said:
What i don't understand is why they didn't just up the offer.. $1000-$1500 is going to get some of the cattle off the plane.
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I don't know, but I'm guessing the gate agent is only allowed to offer a certain amount of travel vouchers, and that wasn't enough since the next flight was 24 hours later. Then it quickly escalated out of control.
 
Shawn said:
As I said before...if you have to call the cops to solve this specific scenario, something has epicly failed in the company's policies and procedures as well as decision making.
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That ignores a big input into the situation - the nut bag who decided to act a fool.

No way could United have expected the guy to behave the way he did. As has been said many times, when crew tells you to leave - you need to leave and take up your issue elsewhere.
 
very disturbing. one more reason i will rather drive than fly commercial. those mofo's can keep their seat
 
orange said:
Basically, nobody is supposed to give their opinion because an almighty airline pilot has bestowed his wisdown upon us.
WE'RE NOT WORTHY. WE'RE NOT WORTHY. Gimme a break.
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So, he's not entitled to his opinion or me to mine since it is in contrast to yours? Gimme a break.
 
I have, on a couple occasions, flown flight attendants on a jet charter in the middle of the night in order to get them in position for a morning flight. This was a long time ago (early 2000s) so I don't know if this is a current practice. I was surprised the airlines would pay so much for this service. I'm sure that on at least one occasion, they were from UAL because they were nervous about flying in such a small airplane and they had never been asked to do anything like that before.

In any case, I'm sure that in the recent situation, they would have found takers if the offer to get off was good enough. A few thousand dollars is nothing compared to the bad publicity coming their way now.
 
kayoh190 said:
It's important to understand that there are a couple different situations. The vast majority of employees you see sitting in the back are traveling on their own - nonreving or jumpseating. These guys are commuting or just using their bennies for personal reasons. Actual deadheading crew is less common - the actual amount varies wildly by airline, equipment, and even a specific schedule - but in my case I might deadhead one or two segments per month.

EDIT: Looks like Captain beat me to it!
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How much of it is "commuting"?
 
weilke said:
I was told by a United 'customer service' manager that it is the last to check in who gets the involuntary denial.
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I've heard of that being used when there is no significant price deltas among a group of pax.

But folks the bottom line to this WHOLE story is pretty simple - if you're being denied service at a business whether it be an airline or a restaurant or a shopping mall and you are asked to leave - YOU GOTTA GO !! You're just not gonna win that fight. The cops don't adjudicate.

And what's with that stupid COW in the video continuously chanting "Oh my God ! Oh my God ! Oh my God!" - cmon lady if you thought that was bad you should've seen the first four days of my Marine Corps PLDC ! It made that look like a love fest comparatively !!!
 
Palmpilot said:
If this guy were my doctor, I would be wondering if I still trusted his judgment enough to continue being his patient at this point.
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this guy stood up to United stupidity and wrong doing. whats wrong in that?
 
rsleeds said:
So, he's not entitled to his opinion or me to mine since it is in contrast to yours? Gimme a break.
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I've never said that pilots (or anybody else for that matter) couldn't or shouldn't give their opinions. I'm all for open discussion and seeing all viewpoints. I was responding to the pilot who was irritated that people actually had the balls to question/disagree/contradict the comments made by professional pilots on this board.
 
WannFly said:
this guy stood up to United stupidity and wrong doing. whats wrong in that?
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He should have chosen his battles more wisely. The sad part is that he will get paid off to not go to court where a bleeding heart jury would award him a buttload of money because they made him bleed.

And I heard that the cops were placed on modified duty while being investigated due to this nonsense. I'm not sure what they should have done differently. If a person doesn't comply to verbal commands, they have to go hands-on and it will get physical. The doc should have known that.
 
ifly4fun said:
What i don't understand is why they didn't just up the offer.. $1000-$1500 is going to get some of the cattle off the plane.
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It's because it's not actual money. It's a travel voucher only good on United. That's like offering someone a free overnight stay in the county jail.
 
orange said:
He should have chosen his battles more wisely. The sad part is that he will get paid off to not go to court where a bleeding heart jury would award him a buttload of money because they made him bleed.

And I heard that the cops were placed on modified duty while being investigated due to this nonsense. I'm not sure what they should have done differently. If a person doesn't comply to verbal commands, they have to go hands-on and it will get physical. The doc should have known that.
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i think he did exactly right. there were other people who walked out after being booted, now if they go to court and site Rule 25 etc.. they arent getting Sh$%. but with the media sh$$%storm now UA will be under too much pressure from their own pool of attorneys to settle. corporations should learn their lessons the hard way. if i was him, i wont even accept off court claim, i will drag UA A#$ thru the court system just o cause them more PR nightmare. if we all keep shut, wells fargo happens
 
deonb said:
It's because it's not actual money. It's a travel voucher only good on United. That's like offering someone a free overnight stay in the county jail.
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exactly. they could have send their own mechanics in a diff flight, but that would cost them money, so they tried to save a few bucks by booting paying passengers. serves them right
 
Art VanDelay said:
I've heard of that being used when there is no significant price deltas among a group of pax.

But folks the bottom line to this WHOLE story is pretty simple - if you're being denied service at a business whether it be an airline or a restaurant or a shopping mall and you are asked to leave - YOU GOTTA GO !! You're just not gonna win that fight. The cops don't adjudicate.

And what's with that stupid COW in the video continuously chanting "Oh my God ! Oh my God ! Oh my God!" - cmon lady if you thought that was bad you should've seen the first four days of my Marine Corps PLDC ! It made that look like a love fest comparatively !!!
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I neither saw nor heard a cow in the video. I have some familiarity with bovines and am fairly certain that I would recognize one. Perhaps your attitude is showing just a little bit?

The difference with the airline is that the trip has already been paid. If you wish to renege on the paid for deal then ya better be nice about it. The airline had rules to follow which included clearly communicating the "re-accommodated" (harrumph) persons rights in the situation. Do we have any indication those rules were followed? Having been through a canceled flight with united all I can say is that communication does not appear to be a strong suite. Maybe things are that way throughout the industry. Maybe the industry likes it that way. Maybe it is an opportunity for the competition. It certainly doesn't cost much more to include customer service into employee training rather than customer neglect.
 
WannFly said:
i think he did exactly right. there were other people who walked out after being booted, now if they go to court and site Rule 25 etc.. they arent getting Sh$%. but with the media sh$$%storm now UA will be under too much pressure from their own pool of attorneys to settle. corporations should learn their lessons the hard way. if i was him, i wont even accept off court claim, i will drag UA A#$ thru the court system just o cause them more PR nightmare. if we all keep shut, wells fargo happens
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I don't see where United did a single thing wrong. As a matter of fact in 23 years of airline flying I've seen involuntary removals actually uglier than this one.

It's never pretty to watch and maybe even disturbing to the faint of heart but the fact remains it was entirely AVOIDABLE.
 
Clark1961 said:
I neither saw nor heard a cow in the video. I have some familiarity with bovines and am fairly certain that I would recognize one. Perhaps your attitude is showing just a little bit?

The difference with the airline is that the trip has already been paid. If you wish to renege on the paid for deal then ya better be nice about it. The airline had rules to follow which included clearly communicating the "re-accommodated" (harrumph) persons rights in the situation. Do we have any indication those rules were followed? Having been through a canceled flight with united all I can say is that communication does not appear to be a strong suite. Maybe things are that way throughout the industry. Maybe the industry likes it that way. Maybe it is an opportunity for the competition. It certainly doesn't cost much more to include customer service into employee training rather than customer neglect.
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The cow ? You can't miss her she's blond and being more dramatic than an actor in a Mexican soap opera. I kept waiting for her to look at the camera and say "Oh the humanity!!!", I'm sure you'll be able to find her now.
 
Clark1961 said:
It certainly doesn't cost much more to include customer service into employee training rather than customer neglect.
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It's obvious that at least one airline employee here didn't get customer service training, or he ignored it...
 
Art VanDelay said:
The cow ? You can't miss her she's blond and being more dramatic than an actor in a Mexican soap opera. I kept waiting for her to look at the camera and say "Oh the humanity!!!", I'm sure you'll be able to find her now.
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Nope, still no cow visible. Are you sure that you know what a cow really is? Should someone google that for you?
 
orange said:
He should have chosen his battles more wisely. The sad part is that he will get paid off to not go to court where a bleeding heart jury would award him a buttload of money because they made him bleed.

And I heard that the cops were placed on modified duty while being investigated due to this nonsense. I'm not sure what they should have done differently. If a person doesn't comply to verbal commands, they have to go hands-on and it will get physical. The doc should have known that.
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Well... I think handcuffing and walking would have been preferable to body-slamming and dragging, but maybe that's just me.

Rich
 
Airlines suck. United especially. I was 1k for three years and gave it up after continually being treated like I was a piece of gum that some gate agent had to scrape off their shoes. $30k - $60k spend per year customer and I quit them one horrible night in ORD when they stranded me and haven't gone back.

Delta got my business for a few years and then I started flying myself, but I do still fly Delta whenever I must fly commercial. The DAL staff, IME, is much less likely to view me as garbage than the awful UAL "team".
 
jordane93 said:
If they're commuting, they're commuting. Not sure I understand your question. People live all over the country and have to commute to their base.
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If I work for XYZ Company and they are in Salt Lake City I would expect to move to Salt Lake City.
 
EppyGA said:
If I work for XYZ Company and they are in Salt Lake City I would expect to move to Salt Lake City.
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Is the XYZ Company an airline ? Offering flight benefits to its employees ?
If you answered yes to either of these questions than your expectations are quite different.
 
EppyGA said:
If I work for XYZ Company and they are in Salt Lake City I would expect to move to Salt Lake City.
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Yea for a regular job. We don't have to move to our base because it's not required. We can commute if we want to.
 
James_Dean said:
Delta got my business for a few years and then I started flying myself, but I do still fly Delta whenever I must fly commercial. The DAL staff, IME, is much less likely to view me as garbage than the awful UAL "team".
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That has been my experience as well. I used to go back and forth between both depending on schedule and price. At some point I realized that UAL treats you like toxic waste regardless of how many thousand you spend with them every year. Add to that the random cancellations and I stopped using them for domestic travel.
 
James_Dean said:
Airlines suck. United especially. I was 1k for three years and gave it up after continually being treated like I was a piece of gum that some gate agent had to scrape off their shoes. $30k - $60k spend per year customer and I quit them one horrible night in ORD when they stranded me and haven't gone back.

Delta got my business for a few years and then I started flying myself, but I do still fly Delta whenever I must fly commercial. The DAL staff, IME, is much less likely to view me as garbage than the awful UAL "team".
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That right there is why they should've called the merged entity Continental instead of Untied !
 
RJM62 said:
Well... I think handcuffing and walking would have been preferable to body-slamming and dragging, but maybe that's just me.

Rich
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Did that guy look like he was willing to walk? He had total control of how it went down.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I don't see where United did a single thing wrong. As a matter of fact in 23 years of airline flying I've seen involuntary removals actually uglier than this one.

It's never pretty to watch and maybe even disturbing to the faint of heart but the fact remains it was entirely AVOIDABLE.
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that doesnt make it right. they can deny me boarding for whatever reason. once i am boarded, its my seat and unless i am doing anything wrong, the airline legally cant remove me or at least its not there in COC that i know of. there are other civil ways to handle things that would have costed UA money which they saved or thought they saved.
 
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